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On 1/25/2018 at 12:44 AM, MrDeaf said:

Rest assured, Roma is quite bad at supporting the early DD fight, because of her dispersion issues and high powered shells. The shells are more likely to overpenetrate on angled DDs and miss entirely on broadside ones.

I don't expect Missouri levels of 18k dmg to a DD, but surely it should get at least 4k from 1 penetration or 4 overpens at 11.2km, if I place my aim well.

Yeah when I am in my DDs and see a Roma that went to the front lines too early and with minimal or no support I have no problems going into point blank range for torpedo attack since the Roma secondary guns are ineffective enough to allow a DD to get as close as they want with out much danger. Unless the Roma has HE loaded and main guns aimed at you then that could possibly be a problem to consider.

Although with Roma’s mobility it can be make torpedo attacks a little more challenging if they are maneuvering a lot and as a DD you are desiring a nice dev strike worth of torpedo hits. So the getting into point blank range torpedo trick is mainly good when the Roma has restricted mobility in some areas.

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1 hour ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Yeah when I am in my DDs and see a Roma that went to the front lines too early and with minimal or no support I have no problems going into point blank range for torpedo attack since the Roma secondary guns are ineffective enough to allow a DD to get as close as they want with out much danger. Unless the Roma has HE loaded and main guns aimed at you then that could possibly be a problem to consider.

Although with Roma’s mobility it can be make torpedo attacks a little more challenging if they are maneuvering a lot and as a DD you are desiring a nice dev strike worth of torpedo hits. So the getting into point blank range torpedo trick is mainly good when the Roma has restricted mobility in some areas.

The 90mm secondaries are really bad as 15mm or thicker armor causes non-pens.  For DDs, many of them can tank that in Roma's MM bracket.  It's pretty bad.  I remember I experimented with a Secondary Spec on Roma when she was new.  Tried it in co-op and the amount of damage they did even with Manual Secondaries was abysmal even against DD targets.  I didn't really know why at the time since I didn't know the HE Pen formula at the time, and how really bad 90mm was for that.

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The 90mm secondaries are really bad as 15mm or thicker armor causes non-pens.  For DDs, many of them can tank that in Roma's MM bracket.  It's pretty bad.  I remember I experimented with a Secondary Spec on Roma when she was new.  Tried it in co-op and the amount of damage they did even with Manual Secondaries was abysmal even against DD targets.  I didn't really know why at the time since I didn't know the HE Pen formula at the time, and how really bad 90mm was for that.

Battlecruiser type ships in the game seem to often be plagued by secondary gun issues like Roma, Hood, and sometimes Kii can have trouble. Then others like Amagi, PE Friedrich, Gneisenau, and Scharnhorst have great secondaries. Really seems they either are brilliant ply good secondaries or totally mediocre secondaries when they get added to the game. So at least you know where you stand in them I guess.

I have developed a taste for the Battle Cruiser / fast Battleship playstyle or sailing in and doing major damage when it favors you, then sailing away before things get too hot or even avoiding a bad situation entirely.

When you said full secondary build on Roma did that happen to include IFHE? Have heard that often tends to be needed with 100mm secondary guns like on Kii and in French BBs because of pen issues, and I would say it sounds like Roma’s 90mm secondaries would fall in that category. 

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On 3/28/2019 at 6:58 AM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Battlecruiser type ships in the game seem to often be plagued by secondary gun issues like Roma, Hood, and sometimes Kii can have trouble. Then others like Amagi, PE Friedrich, Gneisenau, and Scharnhorst have great secondaries. Really seems they either are brilliant ply good secondaries or totally mediocre secondaries when they get added to the game. So at least you know where you stand in them I guess.

I have developed a taste for the Battle Cruiser / fast Battleship playstyle or sailing in and doing major damage when it favors you, then sailing away before things get too hot or even avoiding a bad situation entirely.

When you said full secondary build on Roma did that happen to include IFHE? Have heard that often tends to be needed with 100mm secondary guns like on Kii and in French BBs because of pen issues, and I would say it sounds like Roma’s 90mm secondaries would fall in that category. 

Kii's 100mm secondaries are good to go as they also got the IJN 100mm HE Pen Buff, they pen 25mm as they do on the Akizuki-family of DDs.

 

RN BBs with the exception of Warspite, are like USN BBs.  Trash secondaries.

 

For my testing with Roma, I did it at first without IFHE and later with IFHE.  Even with IFHE it's trash, the 90mm will only pen 18mm.  The guns are simply too small that not even IFHE will save them.  It can't even pen the superstructure of High Tier BBs, much less shells landing on the hull of Cruisers.  With Roma, I liked brawling, even knife fighting other BBs.  But against Cruisers and Destroyers, NO!  The secondaries are too trashy and the guns' AP will Overpen Cruisers in short range (super high velocity shells and flat arcs;  will fly out the other side of a Cruiser).  The trash secondaries are useless against DDs that somehow get in short range, and now you're in big trouble to quickly put a DD down.  The 152mm secondaries cannot compensate for the 90mm secondaries failure because the 152s don't shoot fast enough.  Then you got the lousy HE on her main battery, which doesn't help in anti-DD work.

 

Another simple reason to give up the Secondaries Build on Roma?  Lack of range.  Even with AFT & SBM1 upgrade, it's only 7.2km.  Not to mention that by equipping SBM1, that means no ASM1 to help buff Roma's dispersion.  Her main battery needs every bit of help they can get.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Yeah, speaking as someone who actually has managed to somehow come out on top versus three destroyers at once in close quarters in a Roma, it's not something that you can reliably do, nor should you try. Your only hope at that point is to load HE (hey it sucks, but it's still better than an AP overpen in my experience) and pray that your torpedo-beat skills are up to the challenge while swerving and throwing your ship around like a madman.

Those secondaries are just so bad... I mean, if the 152s could pull their weight and the 90s fired AP we'd be having a different conversation, but as it stands Roma's secondaries fall into roughly the same tier as US and RN: You're better off forgetting they exist and not putting any skill points into them, that way if you actually do manage to get a lucky CQE medal with them it comes across as a pleasant surprise.

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