406s or 420s for Der Große?

[BlacksmithPanzer]

so I've almost completed the grind for the große the only thing I'm missing now is the 420 mm guns and I'm kinda curious as to whether or not they're honestly worth it. One question I still have is if I research the guns on the große will they rollover to the kurfÜrst? because if they don't I think I'll just keep the 406s for now. I'd much rather have the higher rate of fire than the slight dmg boost of the 420s, I know 4 seconds isn't much of a rate of fire boost but the number of times I've  died with like 2 seconds left on my reload could probably be counted in the dozens.

[Lert]

15 minutes ago, kingofthepanzers98 said:

 if I research the guns on the große will they rollover to the kurfÜrst?

no.

[BlacksmithPanzer]

1 minute ago, Lert said:

no.

yea I thought so just wanted to double check first before I got them will probably just keep the 406s then.

[Lampshade_M1A2]

So far in my grind the 16" guns have worked fine despite the large dispersion that wouldn't get any better if I upgraded to the 16.5" ones. I don't really see a need to spend all of that XP and credits.

[BlackZR1]

Thing is, when you get the GK, you can get 420s too. You'll have to grind for them, obviously, but they're there as a choice.

[VannKraken]

I have read quite a few opinions on this and have stuck with the 406's for the rate of fire advantage - especially if you have Adrenaline Rush on your commander.

[AdmiralThunder]

13 hours ago, kingofthepanzers98 said:

so I've almost completed the grind for the große the only thing I'm missing now is the 420 mm guns and I'm kinda curious as to whether or not they're honestly worth it. One question I still have is if I research the guns on the große will they rollover to the kurfÜrst? because if they don't I think I'll just keep the 406s for now. I'd much rather have the higher rate of fire than the slight dmg boost of the 420s, I know 4 seconds isn't much of a rate of fire boost but the number of times I've  died with like 2 seconds left on my reload could probably be counted in the dozens.

 

10 hours ago, Lampshade_M1A2 said:

So far in my grind the 16" guns have worked fine despite the large dispersion that wouldn't get any better if I upgraded to the 16.5" ones. I don't really see a need to spend all of that XP and credits.

Just remember they have to at least be researched to get to the GK. You don't have to buy and mount them but you will have to research them. All upgrades have to be researched to move on or it will add the XP for any non researched upgrades to the next ship's base research XP.

GK is 255K XP. The FDG 420MM guns are 35K XP. Try and research GK without 1st researching FDG's 420MM guns and you would see the GK would end up costing 290K XP if you tried to research it (255 +35).

I personally believe the ship with with the biggest guns wins. As long as you don't lose gun numbers going with the bigger guns like happens in Conqueror I would probably go 420MM's on the FDG? Dispersion appears to be the same on them and you get 800 more damage p/ shell with the 420MM's. I would suffer the 4 second reload increase I think. I am used to 30-34 seconds being a US BB player so 32 would seem normal LOL.

Not far off FDG myself so I will be in this same situation soon. Something to be thinking about.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

The 420s are better at range but FDG only has 8 guns and is a very poor candidate for such fights.

 

IMO, stick with the 406's due to a few reasons.

- Unlike GK who has 12 guns at Tier X, FDG only has 8.  There's a lot of chances for error, bad dispersion for FDG with 8 guns.  The 406s reload faster, so you're back in action sooner.

- With FDG being mediocre at range, this really pushes the matter for FDG to Brawl.  The kicker is the 406mm guns penetrate better than the 420s the closer you get.

 

When you hit GK at Tier X, both 406 and 420 options are very valid for her.  But FDG needs faster guns to make up for having so few rifles, especially since most guys use Secondary Builds for German BBs, so ASM1 is not fitted on her.

[Xlap]

None of them is really better, is more like playstyle and feeling. Some players like the 406mm RoF, other like the 420mm alpha strike and pen. Both guns are valid choices.

[Not_Your_Average_Potato]

I prefer the 406 on the tier 9.  But on the GK 420s cause u have 12 guns compared to the 8 in tier 9.

[Focke66]

I have a lot of GK games in, and in my opinion...its a draw.

406's generally damage cruisers more often than 420's, fewer over-penetrations but not so much that there is a clear deciding factor there. They have as good and some argue better penetration at half range and under. For certain have enough penetration at brawling ranges for anything you will face considering your secondaries will also be working the target (build a secondary captain for GK). Less fire chance.

420's have a small edge on longer range penetration but is it enough to call them the clear winner? nope. Much of your plunging fire in German BBs is bounced, for reasons I dont know. Almost seem to ignore the shell/armor stats at times. Better fire chance. Feel sluggish overall to me. Higher alpha, which is nice since you're a brawler and should be at brawling range. The 2.7 sec difference in reload time is negligible to DPM.

I switch back and forth often, since it's free. 

PS: I have a lot of notes somewhere at my other house where I charted damage done with different builds, broken down to mains/AP-HE and secondaries etc, and noted if they were 406 and 420. I never compiled a master list. Perhaps I will 

[BunnyHerd]

On 1/9/2018 at 11:52 AM, AdmiralThunder said:

GK is 255K XP. The FDG 420MM guns are 35K XP. Try and research GK without 1st researching FDG's 420MM guns and you would see the GK would end up costing 290K XP if you tried to research it (255 +35).

This is flat out not true.

I unlocked my GK using 255K ship XP and I still haven't researched 420 mm guns on FDG.

[AdmiralThunder]

18 hours ago, BunnyHerd said:

This is flat out not true.

I unlocked my GK using 255K ship XP and I still haven't researched 420 mm guns on FDG.

Ok. In the past all ship upgrades had to be researched before you could research the next ship up in the tech tree. If you tried to do it without having all upgrades researched (not mounted but researched) the XP price was added to the price of the new ship. When I skipped over Izumo to go to Yamato I had to research all the upgrades 1st????

I just unlocked the FDG myself this AM and it says if I want to go right to GK it is 309 XP so that would be the 255 for GK + 54 for the hull upgrade on FDG. So I apologize for any misinformation but it is how it had always worked for me in the past and how I have read similar from others.

Maybe it is JUST the hull upgrades that have to be done and I have always thought it was all? 

[retic1959]

On 1/8/2018 at 3:53 PM, kingofthepanzers98 said:

so I've almost completed the grind for the große the only thing I'm missing now is the 420 mm guns and I'm kinda curious as to whether or not they're honestly worth it. One question I still have is if I research the guns on the große will they rollover to the kurfÜrst? because if they don't I think I'll just keep the 406s for now. I'd much rather have the higher rate of fire than the slight dmg boost of the 420s, I know 4 seconds isn't much of a rate of fire boost but the number of times I've  died with like 2 seconds left on my reload could probably be counted in the dozens.

I have both and prefer the 406's on both the FDG and the GK , sometimes I'll swap them if RNG is screwing me over though . You can always go back and get the 420's for the FDG after you've gotten your GK if you like .

[sasquatch_research]

Hey

When I did run the FDG, I found very little damage between the 406's and the 420's.  There was very little difference in the punch of the guns and I think the higher ROF of the 406's was better; the problem is the rest of the ship as it could not take damage to the point of being very good.  It really was (Most pf the time) a garbage boat that absorbed damage constantly and could not dish it out all that well.  I sold mine and put the money and captain into the Hindenburg, best decision I made as I have a lot more fun, better at being an aid to the team, make more XP and more credits per battle.  Mine was fully upgraded, and a 15pt captain on board.  I hated the FDG.  Not worth the hassle nor the expense of running it.  Just my opinion.

 

Pete

[AdmiralThunder]

Got my FDG and put the 420's on. Hard to tell if they do decent damage as my lord are they inaccurate. Way worse than Bismarck even though stats are similar. One decent salvo on full broadside Montana netted 19K but no cit's is best for me so far. Most other salvos were super wonky with poor results. Only 1 game so not panicking or anything but wow was it bad. 

May throw the 406's on just to see what I can do with them? If I am going to struggle to hit guess I would rather be able to shoot faster and hope to make up for lack of accuracy with quantity of shells thrown out there.

[thehelmsman]

406 all the way, for one reason: the dispersion is garbage either way you go, and the faster reload helps compensate for the inconsistency of German battleship guns. Volume of fire > caliber in this game, almost always, whenever you have a choice between the two. There's a reason you hardly ever see 8" Mogami or 18" Canceror.

--Helms

[AdmiralThunder]

2 hours ago, thehelmsman said:

406 all the way, for one reason: the dispersion is garbage either way you go, and the faster reload helps compensate for the inconsistency of German battleship guns. Volume of fire > caliber in this game, almost always, whenever you have a choice between the two. There's a reason you hardly ever see 8" Mogami or 18" Canceror.

--Helms

Yeah I already swapped over to 406's to try on next game. Let's see how 24.6 sec reload with the smaller guns works vs 28.2 sec with the 420's. 420's did not impress me with damage and as you say with such awful accuracy may as well shoot more often.

[CaptainTeddybear]

On 1/8/2018 at 3:53 PM, kingofthepanzers98 said:

so I've almost completed the grind for the große the only thing I'm missing now is the 420 mm guns and I'm kinda curious as to whether or not they're honestly worth it. One question I still have is if I research the guns on the große will they rollover to the kurfÜrst? because if they don't I think I'll just keep the 406s for now. I'd much rather have the higher rate of fire than the slight dmg boost of the 420s, I know 4 seconds isn't much of a rate of fire boost but the number of times I've  died with like 2 seconds left on my reload could probably be counted in the dozens.

406s are much better. In addition to DPM being significantly higher, 5 seconds on your reload can be the difference between Victory and Davy Jones Locker.

[Focke66]

17 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Yeah I already swapped over to 406's to try on next game. Let's see how 24.6 sec reload with the smaller guns works vs 28.2 sec with the 420's. 420's did not impress me with damage and as you say with such awful accuracy may as well shoot more often.

How are you getting 24 sec? Im at 25.5 with MBM3

2.7 sec faster reload on the 406's doesnt significantly increase DPM. It is ~.2 savlo/min more. so 1 salvo per 5 minutes, but each salvo Alpha is less. Its really a wash. I build secondaires though so my shots are mostly up close, and the 406's perform the same at those ranges. 

[AdmiralThunder]

1 hour ago, Focke66 said:

How are you getting 24 sec? Im at 25.5 with MBM3

2.7 sec faster reload on the 406's doesnt significantly increase DPM. It is ~.2 savlo/min more. so 1 salvo per 5 minutes, but each salvo Alpha is less. Its really a wash. I build secondaires though so my shots are mostly up close, and the 406's perform the same at those ranges. 

Are you running MBM2 as well to speed up turrets? If so that lengthens reload. Looks like it would push reload to 25+ seconds if you did. You say you built for secondary guns (I did as well) but did you select the wrong module or something? Do you have MBM2 mounted instead of SBM2  I am only running MBM3 and it shows my reload for the 406's at 24.6 sec.

[Focke66]

OHHH  I have GK not FDG  =)

[AdmiralThunder]

59 minutes ago, Focke66 said:

OHHH  I have GK not FDG  =)

[Battlelust]

You only need to research the modules that are required to progress from ship to ship. This is mostly the hull, which you can see what modules are required by the line with the arrows leading to the next ship. Any side upgrades are not required such as the engine upgrade and fire control modules etc. As for which guns to equip, i always choose the biggest caliber and went with the 420s.