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Captain_Dilbert

Sigma values

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23 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

Why that information isn't just made readily available to us in-client is still beyond me.

WG said that on the basis that only a select few would be able to understand them.

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12 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

WG said that on the basis that only a select few would be able to understand them.

Typical response from a company with people working in them born in an authoritarian state. 

"You don't need to know citizen. You won't be able to understand it. Move Along". 

 

A simple explanation is enough, for example Sigma Value:
 1.23 (Higher Is Better, Max Value In Game 2.5). 

Less than 50 characters, gives instruction to understand the value, gives max value to show relative position in game. How hard is it to put that in game?

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32 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

Typical response from a company with people working in them born in an authoritarian state. 

Not any real difference with any other company - heck same response as the US'ss current .govt/representatives and President..

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1 hour ago, goldeagle1123 said:

Why that information isn't just made readily available to us in-client is still beyond me.

Mostly because people would misinterpret it.  Sigma is nice but it doesn't necessarily mean "more accurate".  Go ahead.  Guess the sigma value of these three dispersion patterns (that's a Fuso for scale).

4BkGoiA.gif

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse
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Here's another post that may point you to your answers, OP. May be a bit outdated though.

 

This may also help:

I'm no expert, just found these with a simple search. I make no claims as to their accuracy.

Edited by FleetAdmiral_Assassin

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43 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Mostly because people would misinterpret it.  Sigma is nice but it doesn't necessarily mean "more accurate".  Go ahead.  Guess the sigma value of these three dispersion patterns (that's a Fuso for scale).

4BkGoiA.gif

Yet it still plays a colossal part in determining the grouping of shells. There is a world of difference between my Yamato and Dunkerque's shell groupings. Even small sigma changes can make or break ships, my personal favorite example being pre and post-nerf Konig. The shell groupings and effectiveness of the ship overall changed drastically when the Konig's sigma was nerfed.

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53 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Mostly because people would misinterpret it.  Sigma is nice but it doesn't necessarily mean "more accurate".  Go ahead.  Guess the sigma value of these three dispersion patterns (that's a Fuso for scale).

4BkGoiA.gif

 

This is gonna be embarrassingly wrong... but I really want to try!

 

Imma guess...

 

Purpleish/Pinkish = 2.0

 

Cyan = 1.7

 

Red = 1.8

 

*Edit*

 

Waaaaait.......

 

We're those fired from the same range?

Edited by Spartias

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56 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Mostly because people would misinterpret it.  Sigma is nice but it doesn't necessarily mean "more accurate".  Go ahead.  Guess the sigma value of these three dispersion patterns (that's a Fuso for scale).

4BkGoiA.gif

Same sigma

Pink = USN 

Red = IJN 

Blue = KM

The distribution of shells on the center line looks about equal but the heavier slower shells would make a tighter vertical patten. 

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7 minutes ago, StoneRhino said:

Same sigma

Pink = USN 

Red = IJN 

Blue = KM

The distribution of shells on the center line looks about equal but the heavier slower shells would make a tighter vertical patten. 

 

Oooooooooooooooh!

 

Mebe!

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The more I look at dispersion and sigma, the more I start to see a trend. It seems like it is based off of the R50 system of calculating shot accuracy. For those who who are unfamiliar with R50, it is basically the european system of calculating rifle shot accuracy by taking the circle of the largest vertical spread, and the circle of the largest horizontal spread, then taking the area in which they overlap, and then having 50% of the most closely grouped shots to the center measured to give an accuracy rating. or better stated as:

They then draw two circles on the target, one for the maximum vertical dispersion of hits and one for the maximum horizontal dispersion of hits. They then disregard the hits on the outer part of the target and only count half of the hits (50% or R50) on the inner part of the circles. This dramatically reduces the overall diameter of the groups. They then use both the vertical and horizontal measurements of the reduced groups to measure accuracy.

And this is where sigma comes in for me. Sigma basically denotes the R50 accuracy/consistency of those fired but does not take into account the maximum dispersion and hence basically ignores the shot that lands outside of the Denoted R50 circular area of error. The American system on the other hand just simply takes the smallest possible diameter that can fit all the shots in or overall accuracy. In world of warships terms, that would be dispersion. These 2 systems cannot be directly be converted nor translated so in the competition shooting world they often do this thing where shot consistency/precision is measured via R50 and shot accuracy via the American method.

Taking all of this information and applying it to Warships equivalents, It means that that sigma shows how consistently or how close the shots can land relative to each other(precision) not how accurate your shots are. Accuracy and precision are different yet people always take them for the same thing. Better sigma (precision/consistency) is useless if your accuracy (dispersion) is horrible as you can land shots in the same tight area, but always in the wrong spots.

Applying this logic, lets say you have a precision of 99% and whatever sigma value that translates to, which means 99% of the time you can get basically the same result/hit in an salvo (all shots land on top of each other) in a accuracy zone of 10 meters. However, if you decrease accuracy/increase dispersion, to such an extent, then the following happens. The shots are still relatively precise, in that they land close to each other in terms of R50 every slavo, however, because the dispersion that the precision is dependent on has became so large, that tight cluster can go anywhere in an accuracy zone of 100 meters, denoting reduced accuracy/a larger margin of error that will also affect how and where your shots land despite being grouped closely.

And going the other way, you can have absolute trash sigma (precision) but extremely tight dispersion (accuracy). Sure you shots may not be consistent relative to each other but the maximum room of possible error is so small, it mitigates this. For example, each individual shot can be 5 meters away from each other in a salvo, or the center bullseye but the entire salvo as a whole never deviate more than 1 meter from their flight path.

Now this is heading into some insane territory but say you have 2.5 sigma and a 5 meter dispersion. you basically got a laser pointer for shot precision and accuracy is now mostly up to your aim. On the other end trash dispersion and trash sigma means you basically get a shotgun spread for a slavo that is not only all over the place but each salvo deviates by a huge amount from the last which can mean that your next salvo can land 500 meters away from the last and with the shotgun blast effect to boot.

I dont know if you will be able to digest all of this but hopefully it helps. 

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