Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
ARandomClaymore

Friedrich der Große - How to play?

27 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
402 posts
3,961 battles

I'm really struggling in this ship after 9 battles. Anyone who says this is OP is wrong, or I got the biggest lemon Der Grobe on the lot (along with every other ship in game). Simply put, I cannot do anything in this ship. 9 battles, average damage is 47k. My very first battle, 104k damage out of the box had me thinking finally I can catch a break in this game for once. NOPE! Everything from then on, trash and disaster. (IE: Last 3 battles, have all be under 25k damage, included one battle where I did 5k damage before (1) torp resulted in a detonation that killed me 3 minutes into the battle). Now there have been factors like 1 battle was over so fast I was never able to get in to do anything and was last place on the team. Another was we pressed one direction the reds went the other and everything was out of range. 18.5km range for a T9 BB is pretty weak, but its the terrible main guns that disappoint the most.

I have no idea how to play this ship. It's main guns (using 406mm) cant hit anything 12km or in or out, including multiple times I've had ships at 8km away and nothing connects (I'm sorry but that should NEVER happen!). It's stupid and highly frustrating. I could easily tin foil and says WG and RNG trolls me, because honestly at times (ok all the time), I can't hit a damn thing as shells land short or over ships but on target, yet everything finds me in return (MBH accuracy in my FDG is 23%). My secondaries kick in at 10.1km and even with the Cmdr perks, even those come across as ineffective. I just find this ship lethargic, underperforming, and disappointing. You can't move in and brawl because this thing loves to eat torps and catch fires for days. Can't play it mid range 12-15km cause main guns are a joke (and when RNG hates you like it does me all the times) and secondaries aren't within range, so what's this ship's niche? Outside of the roll of frustration, sell me on how this is a ship that plays strong.

I thought the Bismarck was bad (I free xp'd the remaining 80k out of the Bismarck because I was tired of being bottom tier and always losing despite having decent games), this is even worse. Now, I'm in this boat and wow, it's just awful. Even the WG Wiki states the main guns have horrible accuracy. And Yes, that's with ASM1 equipped.

19 pt Cmdr: PM, EM, AR, BoS, SI, AFT, Man. Sec.

Any advice is welcomed, because at the moment, I am not having any fun playing high tier (again multiple factors stack with that comment for high tier game meta). Can't cause damage, can't manage to kill, can't manage to win.

Thanks in advance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
352
[GRFOX]
Members
2,242 posts
5,234 battles

Um pretty much like the ship you free XPed through. It’s a super Bismarck nothing else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6,799
Alpha Tester, Beta Testers
30,523 posts
6,090 battles

Play like a Bismarck. However, you may have to hang back for a bit before committing to an advance. At tier 9 and 10, the ability to kill from a longer range goes up dramatically.

Can't quite bully your way in off rhe bat like a Bismarck. Have to pick and choose when to attack. But once you make up your mind, go balls to the wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,551
[EGO]
Banned
4,105 posts
16,276 battles

So this was before the secondary nerf and the advent of RN BBs but I had good success with the secondary build.

Go to the cap that has most of your DDs. Pop hydro and charge in at full speed and bully their DDs. When hydro runs out make a U-turn and head back out and heal up and move on to the next cap. 

Steering gears is crucial to this strat which is why I don't know if it would work with firebreathing RN BBs shooting at you.

My guess as to why it was fairly successful was it puts their DDs on defense and it draws fire away from your DDs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
5,424 posts
3,448 battles

It's essentially a Bismarck with more armor a tier higher, identical secondary battery and very similar guns. Pretty weak in the current meta though, which favor long range HE spam (cough, RN BBs). But if you can get in another BBs face you'll have the advantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,880
[WTFS]
Members
9,331 posts
13,756 battles

...You thought Bismarck was bad? :Smile_amazed:

 

Looking over those stat thingies, you in essence average about 50k damage in BB's overall(All tiers averaged, some you do fairly well in), and your hit rate is pretty good as well in Bis, where you're dealing over 71k a round, and are 2% over the average in hit rate. In many BB's, though, you're below that average.

 

Here's what I see, from what I can see: You're trying to snipe with a lot of your BB's, you aren't positioning well, staying with the team, and from all I can see, I'd bet you're mostly firing at other BB's, because they're bigger and you can hit them at range. KM BB's aren't snipers, they're brawlers, you have to get in around 11km for the T8 and up for the secondaries to kick in. You'll get a LOT of damage from those secondaries, it tends to offset the lesser accuracy of the main guns. I know you said you get within 12km, but that's still too far for the secondaries. Get to around 11km, angle properly, and you'll get consistent damage. More, the more ships you're with, the better protected you are, you'll take less torpedo attacks and less air attacks, you'll live longer, and be able to have more damage potential. Also, ammo type, HE vs AP can affect your damage output a great deal. If a ship is angled, blast it with HE, if you get it broadside or close to it, blast it with AP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
402 posts
3,961 battles
23 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

He free XPed the Bismarck.

Only the last 80k of it, as I was tired of always being bottom tier and losing. Bismarck, 31% WR in Random despite having decent games (almost 30k more avg. damage than currently in my FDG). A worse WR than in my Tirpitz. Everything T8 has been a huge area of frustration and disappointment for me (sans Amagi). But again, there are a host of other factors that greatly contribute to my high level of frustration T8 and up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,812
[-KIA-]
Members
5,244 posts
16,371 battles

I'd stay with the stock 406mm guns for higher DPM and build full secondaries.  Stay to mid range and approach to counter pushes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
402 posts
3,961 battles
6 minutes ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

...You thought Bismarck was bad? :Smile_amazed:

 

Looking over those stat thingies, you in essence average about 50k damage in BB's overall(All tiers averaged, some you do fairly well in), and your hit rate is pretty good as well in Bis, where you're dealing over 71k a round, and are 2% over the average in hit rate. In many BB's, though, you're below that average.

 

Here's what I see, from what I can see: You're trying to snipe with a lot of your BB's, you aren't positioning well, staying with the team, and from all I can see, I'd bet you're mostly firing at other BB's, because they're bigger and you can hit them at range. KM BB's aren't snipers, they're brawlers, you have to get in around 11km for the T8 and up for the secondaries to kick in. You'll get a LOT of damage from those secondaries, it tends to offset the lesser accuracy of the main guns. I know you said you get within 12km, but that's still too far for the secondaries. Get to around 11km, angle properly, and you'll get consistent damage. More, the more ships you're with, the better protected you are, you'll take less torpedo attacks and less air attacks, you'll live longer, and be able to have more damage potential. Also, ammo type, HE vs AP can affect your damage output a great deal. If a ship is angled, blast it with HE, if you get it broadside or close to it, blast it with AP.

Thank you for the insight. Main reason I don't care to hide my stats. I welcome outside looking in perspective. I try to play in the 12-15km range. Off your comments, looks like I need to get out of that comfort zone and creep in just a little closer.

As for getting in close, like many, I'm not opposed to it. but when you have 5 DD's per side (seemingly never spotted to shoot or tag secondaries to), even hydro cannot protect you from a wall of 20-30 torps, or even the magical one that detonates you if you dodge all but THAT one...lol. Cheers, Sir!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
402 posts
3,961 battles
4 minutes ago, CylonRed said:

Yes, I even commented in one with nearly the same as my OP. I've even watch iChase 406 vs. 420 , and Flamu vids. I will be sticking with the 406 guns.

I have 200k XP left to grind out this ship, unless I choose otherwise...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
5,424 posts
3,448 battles
6 minutes ago, ARandomClaymore said:

Only the last 80k of it, as I was tired of always being bottom tier and losing. Bismarck, 31% WR in Random despite having decent games (almost 30k more avg. damage than currently in my FDG). A worse WR than in my Tirpitz. Everything T8 has been a huge area of frustration and disappointment for me (sans Amagi). But again, there are a host of other factors that greatly contribute to my high level of frustration T8 and up.

I am aware, it was to stress the point that you clearly didn't like it and weren't performing well in a ship that plays identically to the FDG, furthermore it also seem like if you blew 80k free xp on finishing Bismarck, you wouldn't really be in a position to spend 300,000 some odd free xp to get the GK, another ship that plays almost identically to Bismarck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,153
[ARGSY]
Members
10,326 posts
16,228 battles

I hated FDG with stock hull, but I redid the built to be more accuracy /tank build with FP and it went much better with ROF /acc mod.    basically medium range until you can push.    with big health pool, very easy to tank lot of dmg, but you are also big target.      did alright after hull upgrade.      not so well before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
402 posts
3,961 battles
2 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

I am aware, it was to stress the point that you clearly didn't like it and weren't performing well in a ship that plays identically to the FDG, furthermore it also seem like if you blew 80k free xp on finishing Bismarck, you wouldn't really be in a position to spend 300,000 some odd free xp to get the GK, another ship that plays almost identically to Bismarck.

Ah, gotcha. I thought the Bismarck was ok, but grossly over-hyped. The reason for the XP out was because I never got the WR that should have accompanied many of the strong games had, due to factors outside of my control. I know we've all been through it, had a solid game, only to see the rest of the team potato for the loss. We have all experienced the games seemingly had "in the bag" turn into silly losses and I had more than my fair share of that in the Bis, Tirp, and NC. Again, my only decent and consistent T8 BB play was the Amagi. Got tired of being that whipping post over, and over, repeatedly in T8. T9/ T10 is just a different style of play I'm still trying to adjust to.

People say it all evens out in the end. Well, where's the end? Cause it hasn't evened out for me. Not even close...lol :cap_haloween:

Cheers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
137
[AR]
Members
364 posts
20,931 battles
1 hour ago, ARandomClaymore said:

I'm really struggling in this ship after 9 battles. Anyone who says this is OP is wrong, or I got the biggest lemon Der Grobe on the lot (along with every other ship in game). Simply put, I cannot do anything in this ship. 9 battles, average damage is 47k. My very first battle, 104k damage out of the box had me thinking finally I can catch a break in this game for once. NOPE! Everything from then on, trash and disaster. (IE: Last 3 battles, have all be under 25k damage, included one battle where I did 5k damage before (1) torp resulted in a detonation that killed me 3 minutes into the battle). Now there have been factors like 1 battle was over so fast I was never able to get in to do anything and was last place on the team. Another was we pressed one direction the reds went the other and everything was out of range. 18.5km range for a T9 BB is pretty weak, but its the terrible main guns that disappoint the most.

I have no idea how to play this ship. It's main guns (using 406mm) cant hit anything 12km or in or out, including multiple times I've had ships at 8km away and nothing connects (I'm sorry but that should NEVER happen!). It's stupid and highly frustrating. I could easily tin foil and says WG and RNG trolls me, because honestly at times (ok all the time), I can't hit a damn thing as shells land short or over ships but on target, yet everything finds me in return (MBH accuracy in my FDG is 23%). My secondaries kick in at 10.1km and even with the Cmdr perks, even those come across as ineffective. I just find this ship lethargic, underperforming, and disappointing. You can't move in and brawl because this thing loves to eat torps and catch fires for days. Can't play it mid range 12-15km cause main guns are a joke (and when RNG hates you like it does me all the times) and secondaries aren't within range, so what's this ship's niche? Outside of the roll of frustration, sell me on how this is a ship that plays strong.

I thought the Bismarck was bad (I free xp'd the remaining 80k out of the Bismarck because I was tired of being bottom tier and always losing despite having decent games), this is even worse. Now, I'm in this boat and wow, it's just awful. Even the WG Wiki states the main guns have horrible accuracy. And Yes, that's with ASM1 equipped.

19 pt Cmdr: PM, EM, AR, BoS, SI, AFT, Man. Sec.

Any advice is welcomed, because at the moment, I am not having any fun playing high tier (again multiple factors stack with that comment for high tier game meta). Can't cause damage, can't manage to kill, can't manage to win.

Thanks in advance.

FDG was the worst ship experience I had in this game right after Karlsruhe. I have a 35% win rate out of 63 games on it. I speed grinded this ship, sold it and never looked back. GK dispersion on port window seems similar to FDG, but in game it is amazingly accurate. The inaccuracy of this garbage ship leaves you to best choose the 420mm over the 406mm guns IMHO. My reasoning for this is because this ship will disappoint you time after time ago. Even in what seems to be the best scenario, you will come away with a disappointment somehow. Maximizing the pen power was my way of coping with it. This has to be the least desired tech tree T9 BB in the game. It is so bad that it is the only time that I've taken out a T9 ship and had team members say "I'd rather have X ship on my team then FDG.".

 

Bismark was a keeper on the other hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,731 posts
11,839 battles
1 hour ago, IronWolfV said:

Play like a Bismarck. However, you may have to hang back for a bit before committing to an advance. At tier 9 and 10, the ability to kill from a longer range goes up dramatically.

Can't quite bully your way in off rhe bat like a Bismarck. Have to pick and choose when to attack. But once you make up your mind, go balls to the wall.

this^^   wait for the right moment, then pounce.   Yolo too early and you will be slaughtered quickly.  Hang back too long and you wont do much thanks to the [edited] guns.  I stick with the 406s simply for the faster reload.  might as well throw more shots down range quicker to make up for the inaccuracy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17,272
[WOLF5]
[WOLF5]
Members
38,138 posts
30,896 battles

I liked FDG quite a lot but she is a pure brawler for Tier X matches, especially with the typical German Secondaries Build.  If you're insisting in fighting in wide open map areas like anywhere outside Cap A in Okinawa map, then you have to be much more conservative.  If you can find island areas with enough room to fight in but islands around to limit enemy team long range shots to you, the better.  Example again, the region of Cap A in Okinawa would be a very good spot for FDG to support other ships.

 

Get used to the style.  GK has to be played the same way.  Yes, GK has 12 guns but with the typical secondary builds, she is a terrible combatant at intermediate and long ranges.  Just like other German BBs before her.  When I play other BBs I do not fear GK past secondary ranges like I do Conqueror, Montana, Yamato.  She's just not powerful, reliable at those ranges.

 

Fight, but preserve the ship and read the match, understand when it's time to throw that German BB down the other team's throat, guns and secondaries blazing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
5,424 posts
3,448 battles
10 minutes ago, ARandomClaymore said:

Ah, gotcha. I thought the Bismarck was ok, but grossly over-hyped. The reason for the XP out was because I never got the WR that should have accompanied many of the strong games had, due to factors outside of my control. I know we've all been through it, had a solid game, only to see the rest of the team potato for the loss. We have all experienced the games seemingly had "in the bag" turn into silly losses and I had more than my fair share of that in the Bis, Tirp, and NC. Again, my only decent and consistent T8 BB play was the Amagi. Got tired of being that whipping post over, and over, repeatedly in T8. T9/ T10 is just a different style of play I'm still trying to adjust to.

People say it all evens out in the end. Well, where's the end? Cause it hasn't evened out for me. Not even close...lol :cap_haloween:

Cheers!

Back when it came out it was not overhyped, but it both got nerfed and heavily power creeped, and I think the "hype" just never went away. I know I'm currently grinding Bismarck and have stop grinding German BBs indefinitely until they get buffed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
256
[VANN]
[VANN]
Members
965 posts
6,126 battles

First off, I really like the Bismarck and Tirpitz.  However, FDG is just a bigger Bismarck that has a higher HP pool, but is also a more prominent target that takes fire and superstructure damage very quickly.  I don't feel that its armor scales up to tier 9 at a sufficient level to make up for the fact that you are basically playing with the same guns from tier 8 (especially if you stay with the higher ROF set-up that I prefer).  You can push and bully with FDG, but it is much more situational than in its predecessors.

People seem to say that the GK is much better, but I have stalled out for a while and been working on some other lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,880
[WTFS]
Members
9,331 posts
13,756 battles
8 minutes ago, delp5117 said:

First off, I really like the Bismarck and Tirpitz.  However, FDG is just a bigger Bismarck that has a higher HP pool, but is also a more prominent target that takes fire and superstructure damage very quickly.  I don't feel that its armor scales up to tier 9 at a sufficient level to make up for the fact that you are basically playing with the same guns from tier 8 (especially if you stay with the higher ROF set-up that I prefer).  You can push and bully with FDG, but it is much more situational than in its predecessors.

People seem to say that the GK is much better, but I have stalled out for a while and been working on some other lines.

You definitely don't have the same guns as Bis or Tirp, they have 15 inch, FDG has 16 inch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
256
[VANN]
[VANN]
Members
965 posts
6,126 battles
29 minutes ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

You definitely don't have the same guns as Bis or Tirp, they have 15 inch, FDG has 16 inch.

Just feels like the same, I guess (as far as scaling up damage tier for tier goes).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,463
[SALVO]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
6,598 posts
7,430 battles

As hopefully echoed, you're an upscaled Bismarck. Use the secondaries and Hydro to your advantage, the 420's are fun...but the lower caliber shells offer more DPM. Go with the shell rammer as you need to hit as fast as possible in the brawl. Those guns can citadel German ships...which is very rare to do due to the turtleback.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,731 posts
11,839 battles
14 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

As hopefully echoed, you're an upscaled Bismarck. Use the secondaries and Hydro to your advantage, the 420's are fun...but the lower caliber shells offer more DPM. Go with the shell rammer as you need to hit as fast as possible in the brawl. Those guns can citadel German ships...which is very rare to do due to the turtleback.

There is a sweet spot just under the front guns that allows you to cit the FDG.  Not the easiest to hit, and the window to hit it isnt long.  Probably have to be within 4km or so to hit it with say an iowa.(which is where germans are really deadly)  At the very least, you can take out one or both guns hitting that sweet spot.  I believe the GK is somewhat similar. 

 

but yea, find the right moment, then go ham.  You are a wrecking ball if you choose the right time to go.  People start fleeing.  You start smacking anyone that stays close.   Its intense, and can be fun.   Just getting into those situations is tricky on some maps/teams. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×