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NeutralState

Slight Tweak to IJN DDs to Increase Their Competitiveness

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IJN DDs in higher tier MM bracket are suffering, their average performances are all below 50%, some way below, in win rate.

The slow gun traverse and slow reload of the IJN DDs are meant to reflect the historical fact that the guns were not power assisted in their operations.

In keeping with that flavor, and use it to increase IJN DDs' effectiveness. The proposal is to give IJN DDs a boost in both gun traverse and reload for a very short period as a limited numbered consumable.

Add a consumable slot to IJN DDs pass tier 7, for flavor's sake, name it "For the Emperor".

What it does is that when activated it would temporarily boost the gun traverse and reload speed:

1. Gun Traverse: boosting it by 400%

2. Reload Speed: reduce it by 50% for tier 7 and 8, and 30% for tier 9 and 10.

The duration should be around 15 to 30 seconds. The consumable is not available for Akizuki (for obvious reasons). After activation, Both gun traverse and reload should have a reduction in performance for another 15 to 30 seconds. Cool down of the consumable should be similar to that of the Defensive AA of the same tier. The % boost is chosen to make the performance metric just below that of USN DDs (using it as a standard), but given the higher alpha of IJN DD's shells, their overall DPM should be similar during the activation period.

The consumable imitates the initial adrenaline of the DD's crews during combat and then they quickly tiring out after the initial exertion. The consumable would give the IJN DDs a slight boost in performance during a gun fight, with the draw back of making them vulnerable in prolonged combat. The consumable will compliment the long torpedo reload and allows IJN DDs to at least do something in the crucial period between reloads. 

Unable to contest other DDs in knife fights is one of the most contributing cause to higher tier IJN DDs unable to influence the flow of a match. By giving them a tool to at least have a fighting chance, should solve the problem.  The consumable will also make IJN DD captain's skill choices a bit more diverse, by choosing gun boosting skills and consumable CD reduction skills to make IJN DDs a more "burst" orientated DD line. Overall, the consumable will not make the IJN DDs OP, draw back period after usage aside, IJN DDs in tier 7 to 9 are slower, and t7 to 10 will still have horrific turn rates, thus making them still slightly inferior to real knife fighting gunboats.

Edited by NeutralState
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Give or take the dev team will tweak things for balance reasons but overall this is a nice out of the box suggestion without calling for specific stat buffs.

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You can spec Yugumo as a rather effective gunboat.  Not everyone realizes this.  4.6 second reload on the guns with 5.5km detection range is fun. Kagero's 6 second reload could use some love though...

Edited by thegamefilmguruman
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IJN DDs can easily outgun USN/PA DDs. You just gotta keep them at 8+ km and use your rear turrets to good effect. 

Obviously, don't get in a gunfight with a RU DD, but that's hardly a challenge since you spot them LONG before they spot you. 

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1 minute ago, thegamefilmguruman said:

You can spec Yugumo as a rather effective gunboat.  Not everyone realizes this.  4.6 second reload on the guns with 5.5km detection range is fun. Kagero's 6 second reload could use some love though...

True, but it's more of a harassment tool than a full fledged knife fighter.  A Fletcher or Udaloi will still obliterate a Yugumo if the commander knows what he's doing.

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2 minutes ago, thegamefilmguruman said:

You can spec Yugumo as a rather effective gunboat.  Not everyone realizes this.  4.6 second reload on the guns with 5.5km detection range is fun. Kagero's 6 second reload could use some love though...

 

I'm honestly starting to prefer Yugumo over Fletcher for gunboating. 

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How about just making the IJN torpedoes not have by far the highest detection ranges which make it easy for BBs to dodge even when they're coming in at a 90 degree angle. Especially when IJN DDs are almost solely reliant on them for damage.

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8 minutes ago, thegamefilmguruman said:

You can spec Yugumo as a rather effective gunboat.  Not everyone realizes this.  4.6 second reload on the guns with 5.5km detection range is fun. Kagero's 6 second reload could use some love though...

There is absolutely no reason to. A Fletcher or Z-46 can run the same specs and be twice as effective. WG purposely made IJN guns awful to emphasize torpedo use, the presence of torp reload boosters affirms this. They literally nerfed the 12.7cm 3rd Year Type's HE damage when all the ships that used it had the lowest winrate of DDs at their respective tiers.

Edited by goldeagle1123
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4 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

There is absolutely no reason to. A Fletcher or Z-46 can run the same specs and be twice as effective. WG purposely made IJN guns awful to emphasize torpedo use, the presence of torp reload boosters affirms this. They literally nerfed the 12.7cm 3rd Year Type's HE damage when all the ships that used it had the lowest winrate of DDs at their respective tiers.

Z46, yes, Fletcher no.  You can easily out gunfight fletchers in yugumo and make a z46's life more difficult.  It gives you much greater flexibility in capping.  Why would you?  Why wouldn't you?  

Edited by thegamefilmguruman

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Why not just increase their HE Alfa damage by a significant margin?

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2 minutes ago, thegamefilmguruman said:

Z46, yes, Fletcher no.  You can easily out gunfight fletchers in yugumo.  It gives you much greater flexibility in capping.

...what? A Fletcher will absolutely obliterate a Yugumo, at any range. The Fletcher's DPM, lightning fast turrets, and far superior maneuverability and speed will let it easily steamroll any Yugumo of equal skill.

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IJN guns are not bad at all.  I find them to work very well when used correctly.

 

They do not need a dmg or reload buff.  Only buff that "could" be nice would be faster rotation on the guns.   but EM can fix that if you want it.

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3 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

...what? A Fletcher will absolutely obliterate a Yugumo, at any range. The Fletcher's DPM, lightning fast turrets, and far superior maneuverability and speed will let it easily steamroll any Yugumo of equal skill.

 

At ANY range? Hell no. 

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Just now, Spyde said:

IJN guns are not bad at all.  I find them to work very well when used correctly.

 

They do not need a dmg or reload buff.  Only buff that "could" be nice would be faster rotation on the guns.   but EM can fix that if you want it.

Please tell me how they are not bad. They have poor damage, pitiful reload times which gets worse the lower the tier in which you use the 12.7cm 3rd Year Type, and unbelievably bad turrets traverse. Combine that with the fact that IJN DDs are the lowest and some of the least maneuverable in the game and you have a terrible "gunboat". The only thing that the 12.7cm 3rd Year Type has going for it is good arcs, that's it.

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5 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

 

At ANY range? Hell no. 

Fletcher vs Yugumo at 12km, the Yugumo's max range, my money is still most definitely on the Fletcher.

Edit: 12km*

Edited by goldeagle1123

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11 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

...what? A Fletcher will absolutely obliterate a Yugumo, at any range. The Fletcher's DPM, lightning fast turrets, and far superior maneuverability and speed will let it easily steamroll any Yugumo of equal skill.

Question: Can a Kiev beat a fletcher reliably in a gunfight if it gets the jump on it?  If the answer is yes, then Yugumo can because it has the same reload and same arcs as Kiev on a sneakier platform with equivalent health.  Every time I've engaged a fletcher in a gunboat fight with yugumo I've done more damage to him than he has to me.  Outside 8km fletcher struggles to hit dodging DDs.

Edited by thegamefilmguruman

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1 minute ago, goldeagle1123 said:

Fletcher vs Yugumo at 10km, the Yugumo's max range, my money is still most definitely on the Fletcher.

 

I'm having a hard time believing you've even played the Fletcher with comments like this. 

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Still, think the IJN boats are competitive.  Still, play them.   Guns work. Just need to use them at the right time.

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In all honesty, all most of the IJN DDs need is a small detection range buff to their torpedoes. From the T8 torps down, give them 100 more meters before they're detected. I think that will strike the balance the players are looking for and the devs as well. Some of the mid tier IJN DDs need a little bit more than that, but a small buff to the torp detection is a start.

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2 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

Fletcher vs Yugumo at 10km, the Yugumo's max range, my money is still most definitely on the Fletcher.

IMO Fletcher was paper.  It gets chewed up so fast.  There was a reason it was the stealth firing king.

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4 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

 

I'm having a hard time believing you've even played the Fletcher with comments like this. 

I cheated and looked it up.. Nope not a single Fletcher battle unless he plays a second account or only Via TEST server.

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4 minutes ago, Kombat_W0MBAT said:

 

I'm having a hard time believing you've even played the Fletcher with comments like this. 

Don't own one but I'm familiar with the gun it uses, it's got bad arcs but I'd still bet on it. This is pointless anyway, at any reasonable DD engagment range, Fletcher wins 100% of time if both players have equal skill.

3 minutes ago, Nachoo31 said:

IMO Fletcher was paper.  It gets chewed up so fast.  There was a reason it was the stealth firing king.

Fletcher has better armor and over 1,000 more HP than the Yugumo. On top of being faster and more maneuverable.

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7 minutes ago, goldeagle1123 said:

Fletcher vs Yugumo at 10km, the Yugumo's max range, my money is still most definitely on the Fletcher.

Saying this to one of the best Fletcher players on the server is making me LOL this morning. 

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1 minute ago, centarina said:

if you are firing from fletcher at a DD 10km away,  you are doing it wrong  :cap_hmm:

It's just a hypothetical situation. 

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