Balance changes to Musashi

[Carl]

3 hours ago, JToney3449 said:

How could she be immensely op when all she is is a nerfed Yamato.  Lets be serious, even if you dropped the yamato as is to t9 she wouldnt be super omg OP, plenty of T8-9 ships can stand their ground against any T10 bb Yamato included.

920k fexp is insanity. 750k is already a crap ton, and wg thinks that isnt enough, again lets get serious.  WG going "Well we think we didnt price MO high enough" doesn't count as a good reason, sorry but with 0 proof that the ship that costs the most didn't cost enough is just [edited].  Do we honestly just sit here and say, ya $50 for a T8 BB is cool bump that a tier then triple the price is totally correct scaling.  

Sorry but I can't go along with that, 750k exp was already out of a lot of peoples 'ok' zone, 920k is just wth.  Maybe if it was T10 but not a T9 can research a whole ship line for that.  

As for the balance changes can kinda see it but all any decent CV will do is kill your cat fighter then bomb your brains out.  I say drop some of her HP 10k and give her 2.0 sigma thats a fair compromise.  Her AA in any CV game will make her the primary target.  And change her secondaries to fire IJN HE.  Honestly tho any BB at T9 with T6 lvls of AA I dont think is going to be a good ship in the long run.  Maybe give her defensive fire for panic attackers?

 

The fact that you believe they could drop Yamato a whole tier and she wouldn't be horrifically OP is just mind boggling. T10 BB's have significant advantages in both health and firepower over T9's. T9 to T10 is the biggest power gap within a single tier jump in the game IMHO, there's no wrold in which a T10 B at T9 wouldn't be incredibly OP.

 

1 hour ago, justdags said:

She should be weaker then Yamato she is a tier lower as it is I worry about running into her with my teir 7s there is a reason Yamato is tier 10.

 

Yep with the  old version stuntman ws outperforming his MO by a pretty wide margin.

[Carrier_Lexington]

4 hours ago, GregL385 said:

That is effectively a 150 dollar premium you are paying if you outright buy it. Or 100 dollars with a conversion. That is 150 dollars for a worse ship than her sister. 

You shouldn't be trying to do it all at once, though. The purpose of these ships is a long-term goal. Missouri has been in-game for over a year now, long enough for several players to earn her and for all the unicums to whine about how there were scrubs getting MO.
   You're supposed to earn a lot of free-XP and *then* convert (and even then, only if you want to; I know some die-hards people who wanted to earn her entirely for free).

[JToney3449]

36 minutes ago, Carl said:

 

The fact that you believe they could drop Yamato a whole tier and she wouldn't be horrifically OP is just mind boggling. T10 BB's have significant advantages in both health and firepower over T9's. T9 to T10 is the biggest power gap within a single tier jump in the game IMHO, there's no wrold in which a T10 B at T9 wouldn't be incredibly OP.

 

 

Yep with the  old version stuntman ws outperforming his MO by a pretty wide margin.

Because I said if you look at the T8 and 9 BB they give the yamato a run for its money in any T10 game, her AA is lackluster and she is fairly easily spotted and set ablaze.  Most T10 BB are not a massive step up from their T9 tech counter parts.  Yamato is almost all based off the guns, since she doesnt gain an extra turret, or some other gimick.  Yamato at T9 or T10 is pretty much the same, thats kinda the whole point behind musashi.  Her guns would do to T7 what her guns do to everything else, no real gain.   Thus would the Yamato be super OP at T9, no.  Would I put her at t9, no.  But people make out something being OP as if it will dominate everything, the Yamato does well but she doesn't straight up dominate all the other BB's, I don't fear one any more then I do any other ship.  

 

After all how many higher tier ships have you sent to the bottom while lower tier?  This isn't like world of tanks, a tiger 2 vs an e100.  As is, if musashi stays the same, she will be fine in all the games with no CV's.  But the second there is a CV, oh boy they are going to go after that floating brick of HP like flys on sh*t.  Same as with the Yamato, thus T9 or T10 with those ships just doesnt really matter much.  They need to adjust musashi's heal, and consumable like defensive fire to separate her from yamato.

[Carl]

1 hour ago, JToney3449 said:

Because I said if you look at the T8 and 9 BB they give the yamato a run for its money in any T10 game, her AA is lackluster and she is fairly easily spotted and set ablaze.  Most T10 BB are not a massive step up from their T9 tech counter parts.  Yamato is almost all based off the guns, since she doesnt gain an extra turret, or some other gimick.  Yamato at T9 or T10 is pretty much the same, thats kinda the whole point behind musashi.  Her guns would do to T7 what her guns do to everything else, no real gain.   Thus would the Yamato be super OP at T9, no.  Would I put her at t9, no.  But people make out something being OP as if it will dominate everything, the Yamato does well but she doesn't straight up dominate all the other BB's, I don't fear one any more then I do any other ship.  

 

After all how many higher tier ships have you sent to the bottom while lower tier?  This isn't like world of tanks, a tiger 2 vs an e100.  As is, if musashi stays the same, she will be fine in all the games with no CV's.  But the second there is a CV, oh boy they are going to go after that floating brick of HP like flys on sh*t.  Same as with the Yamato, thus T9 or T10 with those ships just doesnt really matter much.  They need to adjust musashi's heal, and consumable like defensive fire to separate her from yamato.

 

Yamato also has better armour, (more helpful vs close rnage cruisers or at very extreme angles just under autobounce but still partially relevant), she also has all that extra health. And your simply hugely understating her guns. Yamato compares favourably in gunpower at a tier where every other nations BB has 12 guns. Which for everyone but the germans is a 33% jump over the previous tier, for the germans it's more as Freddy only has 8 guns. And yet yamato competes well with them. I wonder why that is. Oh yeah it's because 9 460mm guns are a lot more powerful on a per gun basis than anyone else's. 

 

The fact that T8 and T9 BB's can hurt Yamato dosen;t make her any less more powerful than them. Compared to MO, the current widely regarded best in tier BB Yamato has 33% more armour, 33% moe gunpower, and 22% more health. That is not in any way equivalent to missouri.

[MrKilmister]

5 hours ago, Lert said:

By now I want one if only because it seems to be entirely offensive to some people that this thing even exists.

 

Yeah there's that. 

Kind like the salt that motivates me want to continue playing Loyang in ranked. 

[hipcanuck]

4 hours ago, ksix said:

Fun fact, with 920000 free XP you can go straight to Yamato.

 

Which begs the question.....why bother with Musashi if you can just free xp your way to a Tier10?  So for those of us with 900k free xp lying around, and Im sure they are more than a few, why spend free xp on the Musashi if you can free XP all the way to a French or Italian T10 ?

[Ramsalot]

6 hours ago, Lert said:

By now I want one if only because it seems to be entirely offensive to some people that this thing even exists.

Hehe, this!!!  So much this!!!  The funny part is that I already own Missouri AND Nelson, and I am already at 900k free XP toward Musashi.  I was not going to get Musashi since I own Yamato with permanent camo, but with all the whining I will grab the damn thing without regrets.  Plus it will be fun to division with Missouri for a change. 

[LittleWhiteMouse]

4 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

Which begs the question.....why bother with Musashi if you can just free xp your way to a Tier10?  So for those of us with 900k free xp lying around, and Im sure they are more than a few, why spend free xp on the Musashi if you can free XP all the way to a French or Italian T10 ?

Because you can train commanders and make bank in Musashi.  You can't do that with Yamato.

[SkaerKrow]

7 hours ago, Battlecruiser_NewZealand said:

Previews were already branding the ship immensely OP... and it needed to be buffed? Oh. Okay.

What previews? Most of the reviews that I’ve seen on Youtube have not been overly kind. I’m not questioning the truth of what you’re saying, I’m just interested in seeing these other opinions.

I’d like to see them nerf her cost, personally. The fact that she now costs more XP than the entire IJN BB line is effing stupid.

[Ramsalot]

7 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Because you can train commanders and make bank in Musashi.  You can't do that with Yamato.

You can train commanders on Yamato with permanent camo, all day, every day.

[Battlecruiser_Siegfried]

7 hours ago, JToney3449 said:

How could she be immensely op when all she is is a nerfed Yamato.  Lets be serious, even if you dropped the yamato as is to t9 she wouldnt be super omg OP, plenty of T8-9 ships can stand their ground against any T10 bb Yamato included.

920k fexp is insanity. 750k is already a crap ton, and wg thinks that isnt enough, again lets get serious.  WG going "Well we think we didnt price MO high enough" doesn't count as a good reason, sorry but with 0 proof that the ship that costs the most didn't cost enough is just [edited].  Do we honestly just sit here and say, ya $50 for a T8 BB is cool bump that a tier then triple the price is totally correct scaling.  

Sorry but I can't go along with that, 750k exp was already out of a lot of peoples 'ok' zone, 920k is just wth.  Maybe if it was T10 but not a T9 can research a whole ship line for that.  

As for the balance changes can kinda see it but all any decent CV will do is kill your cat fighter then bomb your brains out.  I say drop some of her HP 10k and give her 2.0 sigma thats a fair compromise.  Her AA in any CV game will make her the primary target.  And change her secondaries to fire IJN HE.  Honestly tho any BB at T9 with T6 lvls of AA I dont think is going to be a good ship in the long run.  Maybe give her defensive fire for panic attackers?

I'd encourage you to watch Noster and a few others playing the thing on Youtube. Yamato's AA already sucked - it was bogus; it was a phantom; it didn't exist. So if you tell me that you're dropping an otherwise supremely powerful Yamato down a tier where it can crush tier 7s, and the only real penalty for the move is loss of the, eh heh, "AA," I'm going to consider that pretty damned broken. 

[DemonicTreerat]

So you IJN fanbois basically want a tier ten ship put into teir 9 effectively unchanged and say "because it takes all this free xp its balanced"?

How about no. We, the players who actually give a damn about more than our epeens, understand than you're stupid, selfish, and utterly incapable of grasping the concept of "balance" but there should be some things that are grossly apparent as just too idiotic to allow that even you can see. One of those being taking a Yamato clone, taking away some AA then calling it balanced for tier 9. Even Wargaming - at least I hope so - aren't so lost in their fantasy of "Russo-Japanese superiority" that something like that makes sense.

[CaptainTeddybear]

For 920k I could get the Yamato, Zao and Yugumo.

[LittleWhiteMouse]

Just now, Veksha said:

You can train commanders on Yamato with permanent camo, all day, every day.

Oh, so we're adding Yamato's premium camo onto the price too?

Musashi Costs 920,000 free experience

• + 36,800 doubloons for 1:25 experience conversion.
• + 300 doubloons for port slot.

MAXIMUM TOTAL:  37,100 doubloons

Yamato Costs from stock Kawachi, only buying necessary upgrades (no engine upgrades, no rangefinders):  908,800 free experience

• + 36,325 doubloons for 1:25 experience conversion.
• + 300 doubloons for port slot
• + 13,734 doubloons for equivalent credits to buy her. (optional)
• + 5,000 doubloons for premium camouflage.
• + 500 doubloons to retrain each commander to use Yamato (optional)
• + 500 doubloons to retrain each commander to use their original ship. (not really optional)

MAXIMUM TOTAL:  between 42,125 and 56,359 doubloons

Yeah, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense there, now does it?  Yamato makes a terrible crew trainer. 

 

[Frederick_The_Great]

5 hours ago, ksix said:

Fun fact, with 920000 free XP you can go straight to Yamato.

neat.  i wasn't aware how much xp it was from start to finish.   i figured 900k-1 mil.

 

 

but yea, outside of credits and maybe captain trainer, its meh to me.  you could buy a perma camo for yammy for what, 5k doubloons.  you can make plenty of money off that.(not saying it would equal the musashi. but you would still make money)  her play style doesn't seem that much off from how you play a yammy.  compared to say how one plays the iowa and the MO.   idk.  i just don't see how its worth what they are asking for.  im sure better advice would be to save the xp to skip passed izumo and go straight to the yammy. (i plan on fully grinding the izumo when i get to it.  just like how i grinded the dreadful ibuki.)

[Ramsalot]

6 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

...Yamato makes a terrible crew trainer.

I respect your opinion and appreciate the time you put into laying out the numbers, but please hear me out - it wont take long I promise.

I own almost all high tier premiums in this game: Missouri, Tirpitz, Alabama, Atago, Kutuzov, Loyang.  Yamato is absolutely my number 1 go-to ship for captain training, without a doubt.  Why?  It deals more damage and brings more XP on average than any other ship I own, and it has 100% camouflage bonus that only Missouri can match.  Missouri is behind Yamato in both damage and XP that she brings, but only slightly behind.  Still, on the average, Yamato brings more elite captain XP, more than any other ship I own.  With all the premium ships available to me, Yamato is still the best crew trainer. 

Also your numbers don't take into account regular ship grinding, WG was kind enough to give me free Fuso for missions, with free camo on it to boot.  So I had relatively painless grind to Yamato from tier 6, and the only actual doubloons I spend were spend on the permanent camo, 5k total.

[LastSamurai714]

So let me get this straight...

The Missouri gets amazing AA, good speed, good handling, great AP pen and radar.

The Musashi gets nerfed Yamato guns with great pen if you hit, ok speed, terrible AA and dumpy handling.

One of these things is not like the other.

[Hanger_18]

9 hours ago, GregL385 said:

People are fine with this?

Nice ancedotal evidence to a claim that undoubtedly is not true. 

Lets set a high price for what reason other than to sucker people into paying for it?

this is known..WG isnt happy with the MO price...

[LittleWhiteMouse]

11 minutes ago, Veksha said:

Also your numbers don't take into account regular ship grinding, WG was kind enough to give me free Fuso for missions, with free camo on it to boot.  So I had relatively painless grind to Yamato from tier 6, and the only actual doubloons I spend were spend on the permanent camo, 5k total.

My numbers also didn't take into account all of the free experience veterans have saved up.  Just like going from Fuso to Yamato was painless for you, acquiring Musashi is going to be painless for others.  I know a few people sitting on over 1M free experience (they like to brag and outdo each other with that kind of thing).

[crzyhawk]

9 hours ago, Akeno017 said:

Missouris price will be increased to the same when she comes back, WG said that they believed she was priced too low.

You do realize that Musashi has been a much desired ship for a long time right, and in order to get her into the game they need to do this. And people are fine with this, because she isn't a worse Yamato, shes Musashi.

No a lot of people are not OK with this.  They are making it a t10 ship with t9 match making.  It's utter stupidity.

[Spud_butt]

bragging challenge!!??!!??  I have almost 22k FXP right now!!  :o)

[Ramsalot]

Just now, LittleWhiteMouse said:

My numbers also didn't take into account all of the free experience veterans have saved up.  Just like going from Fuso to Yamato was painless for you, acquiring Musashi is going to be painless for others.  I know a few people sitting on over 1M free experience (they like to brag and outdo each other with that kind of thing).

Going from 6 to 10 can be not fun, I know.  But Fuso to Yamato has fun ships, I even enjoyed Izumo everyone seems to hate.  I am one of those people that saved up enough free XP to just get Musashi right away.  I did not want to get it, but I think I will.  People keep talking about a chance of seeing tier 7 ships and nerfed guns, but I have a different opinion.  Sure, I did some amazing shots with Yamato at 20km+, but those salvos don't happen all that often.  In your optimal engagement range the difference between Musashi and Yamato is going to be negligible I'd wager.  Plus the chance of NOT seeing any tier 10s while on Yamato hull...  Oh, that's good.  Me want.

[StableGenius]

27 minutes ago, not_acceptable said:

bragging challenge!!??!!??  I have almost 22k FXP right now!!  :o)

866k overhere 

[HazeGrayUnderway]

https://clips.twitch.tv/TenuousAgreeableHorseradishSeemsGood

[intixw]

10 hours ago, Akeno017 said:

Missouris price will be increased to the same when she comes back, WG said that they believed she was priced too low.

 

 

Don't rush to grind for Missouri, WG said.

 

She'll be here to stay, WG said.

 

So even if Missouri does come back at a as yet undefined point in the future, she'll probably cost more.

 

#BoycottWG