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Sinton

Z 23 Question

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So I'd like some input from the Forum.  I have the Z23 KM DD.  I leveled it earlier in the year so I could use the most excellent, but ugly, free camo that was awarded during the WG/WoWs 2nd Anniversary events.  

So I am wondering which armament do you use on your Z 23?

The 128 mm are fast firing and quite satisfying.

The 150 mm are beasts. Some months ago, On my last match in my Gaede, I was armed with the 150's, I got 4 citadels on a single salvo aimed at a Leander at 8 km...that does leave an indelible impression.

So which do you use and why?  What are your bias' towards each?

As a former member of an 8" SPA Btn. (B Bty 1/528th) I know what it's like to 'pull lanyard', so these kind of questions are near and dear to my heart.

Thanks, I always read and consider what you all have to say.

 

 

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150's all the way...and buff the torp reload...so now you are a micro heavy cruiser with an obscene detection....you are a support ship, not a destroyer killer. 

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2 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

150's all the way...and buff the torp reload...so now you are a micro heavy cruiser with an obscene detection....you are a support ship, not a destroyer killer. 

This. But Z-23 is a capable destroyer killer when smoke and hydro is appropriately used.

Why I like the 150s over the 128s:

  • 1 more gun
  • Can spend more time and focus more on zigging and zagging between shots in knife fights
  • Better alpha
  • Better penetration on the HE and AP
  • Better shell arcs so you can engage other DDs outside of their comfort zone

The only drawback to the 150s (which also applies to the 128s), is that other DDs have better DPM, but a good use of smoke and hydro can negate this drawback. (And another drawback is that the 150s don't benefit from the captain skills AFT and BFT, but a dedicated Z-23 captain can then put 3 points into torpedo reload to make those torpedoes reload even faster, and I don't use AFT on DDs in the first place, except for the appropriate Russian DDs).

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Main reason: the A turret changes from 1x128mm to 2x150mm. The only flaw with the KM DD is that you need to change the skills after T8.

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20 minutes ago, Erebthoron said:

Main reason: the A turret changes from 1x128mm to 2x150mm. The only flaw with the KM DD is that you need to change the skills after T8.

The extra turret is gold!  I didn't realize that.

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31 minutes ago, Peregrinas said:

This. But Z-23 is a capable destroyer killer when smoke and hydro is appropriately used.

Why I like the 150s over the 128s:

  • 1 more gun
  • Can spend more time and focus more on zigging and zagging between shots in knife fights
  • Better alpha
  • Better penetration on the HE and AP
  • Better shell arcs so you can engage other DDs outside of their comfort zone

The only drawback to the 150s (which also applies to the 128s), is that other DDs have better DPM, but a good use of smoke and hydro can negate this drawback. (And another drawback is that the 150s don't benefit from the captain skills AFT and BFT, but a dedicated Z-23 captain can then put 3 points into torpedo reload to make those torpedoes reload even faster, and I don't use AFT on DDs in the first place, except for the appropriate Russian DDs).

What he said you basically get 7 free captain points for not taking BFT and AFT. I have a 19Pt so I took Survival Expert for more HP and IFHE although the amount of AP I shoot I may switch. Already have Torp Expert for quicker reloads. She is a fun and different play style to the 46-52 which I'm in love with.

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3 minutes ago, IronMike11B4O said:

What he said you basically get 7 free captain points for not taking BFT and AFT. I have a 19Pt so I took Survival Expert for more HP and IFHE although the amount of AP I shoot I may switch. Already have Torp Expert for quicker reloads. She is a fun and different play style to the 46-52 which I'm in love with.

Would you list your Cpt. build please?

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12 minutes ago, Sinton said:

Would you list your Cpt. build please?

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/0100000000000001011001100000000119

Personally, I run Radio Location and Adreneline Rush in place of Demo Expert and Torp Reload Expertise on the Z-52 but many don’t like RL. 

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9 minutes ago, Landing_Skipper said:

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/0100000000000001011001100000000119

Personally, I run Radio Location and Adreneline Rush in place of Demo Expert and Torp Reload Expertise on the Z-52 but many don’t like RL. 

I've never run RL and seen a bit criticism on it's use.  Please explain.

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RL is amazing, there are just some potatoes that ran it on their BB once and decided it wasn't good.

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8 minutes ago, Grizley said:

RL is amazing, there are just some potatoes that ran it on their BB once and decided it wasn't good.

Once again, can you please tell why?

I've come to dismiss the warning when it is used by the Reds.  So what is the benefit?

 

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It tells you the general direction of the nearest enemy ship.  It's fantastic for hunting down enemy DDs, abiding being spotted and detecting ambushes.

 

It's also the only captain skill that gives you information about the position of the enemy. That alone makes it fantastically valuable.

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RDF in a DD is very useful. You can torp into unseen targets in cap that you are locating.

In a gunboat you can chase hidden DDs and there is no escape from you. They can't hide.

 

Not good for all DDs as it is expensive to have and CE comes first. I use it in some DDs.

Edited by alexf24

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Just now, alexf24 said:

RDF in a DD is very useful. You can torp into unseen targets in cap that you are locating.

In a gunboat you can chase hidden DDs and there is no escape from you. They can't hide.

 

Not good for all DDs as it is expensive to have and CE comes first. I use it 9n some DDs.

How often does it update?

 

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150mm Guns. You have a have about double the chance to start fires.

Better at broadside citadels on cruisers and AP on the broadside of an enemy Z23 is also brutal.

You have an extra gun on the 150mm configuration also.

And also with the 150mm guns, you will be guaranteed to deal HE damage on heavier ships. It is not fun when you shower those 128 HE shells on BB super structures and deal 0 dmg and start no fires.

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22 minutes ago, Sinton said:

I've never run RL and seen a bit criticism on it's use.  Please explain.

RL is the last skill I add to a DD. I don’t run it on Akizuki, Russian DDs, Blyskawica, etc.  IOW any DD that benefits from another 4-point skill such as AFT or IFHE. However, RL is vital IMHO for 2 types of DDs:  close range DD hunters like Benson and sneaky torpedo boats that survive by avoiding detection above all such as Yugumo without smoke. 

RL shows you the direction toward the closest enemy ship. It doesn’t tell you which enemy ship, and that has led to painful lessons more than once. But an experienced DD player can use RL to launch preemptive torps toward a specific approach to a cap. My naked Yugumo shows me which dicection NOT to go. 

Many DD mains believe that only a noob lord such as myself would run RL.  Here is another noob lord who finds it moderately useful:

My former clanmates at STW thought RL was silly... until the first few Clan Wars Battles.  After seeing how useful it was in a 7vs. 7 battle,  they started putting it on cruisers.

 

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7 minutes ago, Sinton said:

How often does it update?

 

 

It doesn't "update". It is always on, always pointing to the closest ship red ship to you. It doesn't give you distance so the closest could be at 20km. It's up to you to read the map and use the information.

Edited by alexf24

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Also, RL is, at best, a meh skill. Any experienced DD driver can figure out what it tells you on their own, and those 4 points are needed for other things, such as having a faster torp reload AND Superintendent, Last Stand, AND extra wide smoke screen, CE AND IFHE for various DD's.

 

Z-23 is already a DD hunter, it doesn't need to waste 4 points, map awareness and hydro do that job for you, for free.

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7 minutes ago, Sinton said:

How often does it update?

 

Constantly. Please understand that it only points at the grid square the closest ship is in, not the precise direction. However, surrounding terrain can help you pinpoint their location. At the very least, you know in advance which direction to turn your guns and which direction to chase. My Chung Mu ate a Fubuki this afternoon because I knew exactly which way to go to chase him. 

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3 minutes ago, Landing_Skipper said:

Constantly. Please understand that it only points at the grid square the closest ship is in, not the precise direction. However, surrounding terrain can help you pinpoint their location. At the very least, you know in advance which direction to turn your guns and which direction to chase. My Chung Mu ate a Fubuki this afternoon because I knew exactly which way to go to chase him. 

But if you don't spend the points in RL, is there an alternative?

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18 minutes ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

Also, RL is, at best, a meh skill. Any experienced DD driver can figure out what it tells you on their own, and those 4 points are needed for other things, such as having a faster torp reload AND Superintendent, Last Stand, AND extra wide smoke screen, CE AND IFHE for various DD's.

 

Z-23 is already a DD hunter, it doesn't need to waste 4 points, map awareness and hydro do that job for you, for free.

Okay, then you should be able to answer this: Shimakaze gets lit by a spotter plane heading away from you, but shoots it down. You chase after them in your Udaloi. Which way do they turn? left, right, or do they keep going straight ahead?

What's that? you have no way of knowing? Too bad, I do and I easily chase down and kill the torp boat thanks to the "I win" indicator. They had no chance against me except for a torpedo hit. WASD hax made that impossible.

There is a reason IJN DDs trying to flank around was stopped dead once RPF was introduced. It wasn't because they stopped trying... at first.

How about this: You are in a Z-46 and your torps load as you get in to cap. It is contested. Where is the contesting DD so you can blind fire torps and hope for a hit?

Or this: Gearing lays a Looooong trail of smoke in the cap. Where in that smoke trail are they?

 

RPF gives you information that you simply should not have. It is stupidly powerful if you are good enough to take advantage of it It's a mandatory 14 point skill. I take it before AR, which I take at 16 points.

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