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SwagOver9000Boi

What the Worcester should be

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It's been hinted by WG that the USS Worcester is going to compete with the HMS Minotaur for rate of fire. I believe that these key things need to be given to the Worcester to stop it from being the clone of the Minotaur with HE.

1.  It needs armour worthy of high tier American Cruisers like the Design Moines. Minotaur is infamous for being incredibly vulnerable to Citadels. For the Worcester to be effective in a long term battle, downgrade strong US Cruiser armour as much as needed to fit the playstyle.

2.  Equip the Worcester with Radar and Defensive Fire AA or Hydro Acoustic Search. Having no smoke would promote a smarter playstyle than "Sit in smoke and spam". Without smoke the Worcester  player would actually be more beneficial to it's team by having to learn good positioning

3. Worcester shell arcs should be similar to Minotaur shells, but have a flatter arcs. High arcs on an HE firing ship would be stupid. Flat arcs would make it harder to hit the superstructure and deck of an enemy Battleship or Cruiser to start fires. 

4. Worcester AA should be toned down. Having a Battleship and Cruiser arsonist with great AA and okay armour would be too OP. 

5. No super heal. Better armour would stamp out the need for a heal that quickly gives you half your HP back. Regular USN heal would make it more difficult for Worcester captains to stay broadside, eat 2 Citadels, and immediately heal 1/2 HP back and use Cruiser detection to disappear from sight.

These are all my suggestions as of now. When Worcester is released for viewing by the players I will update this list. (Disclaimer: These 5 steps were made with no prior knowledge of the USS Worcester or how she plays in the game. These are all opinions made by myself to help the process of creating the Worcester and how it could play)

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Well we know nothing about the ship except what she is IRL. 

 

1. Historically, she had the same hull as Des Moines, so therefore, should have similar armor.

 

2. From what Sub_Octavian said at Let's Battle Lexington, they are thinking of giving her hydro, DF, and radar all together. In addition to the standard DCP and Repair. 

 

3. Shell arcs should be similar to Cleveland. Same guns, same shells. So therefore, same arcs.

 

4. Worcester's AA is comparable to Des Moines, as it should be. 

 

5. No info on this option. 

 

Worcester has the fact that she existed going for her. Something Minotaur doesn't.

 

Fair winds and following seas captain! :Smile_honoring:

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13 minutes ago, Doomlock said:

Well we know nothing about the ship except what she is IRL. 

 

1. Historically, she had the same hull as Des Moines, so therefore, should have similar armor.

 

2. From what Sub_Octavian said at Let's Battle Lexington, they are thinking of giving her hydro, DF, and radar all together. In addition to the standard DCP and Repair. 

 

3. Shell arcs should be similar to Cleveland. Same guns, same shells. So therefore, same arcs.

 

4. Worcester's AA is comparable to Des Moines, as it should be. 

 

5. No info on this option. 

 

Worcester has the fact that she existed going for her. Something Minotaur doesn't.

 

Fair winds and following seas captain! :Smile_honoring:

Thanks for filling me in. I was scared about making a post without much Info.

o7 from CUTE and CUTIE, Will editor team

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1 hour ago, SwagOver9000Boi said:

Thanks for filling me in. I was scared about making a post without much Info.

o7 from CUTE and CUTIE, Will editor team

No problem, this is all speculation from her historical specs and what was said at Let's battle, but glad I could help. 

 

o7 back from Hinon, tell Shinano that Doomlock says hey! :Smile_honoring:

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On 12/27/2017 at 2:07 PM, Doomlock said:

Well we know nothing about the ship except what she is IRL. 

 

1. Historically, she had the same hull as Des Moines, so therefore, should have similar armor.

 

She did?  Guess I'll have to check Friedman out on this and see what he says... there is nothing in any of the publicly available articles I've read that says this.  It's legitimately hard to say for sure where the hull form really comes from because the US cruisers post Brooklyn all used Brooklyn's hull form in various sizes with very little modification.

 

On 12/27/2017 at 2:07 PM, Doomlock said:

2. From what Sub_Octavian said at Let's Battle Lexington, they are thinking of giving her hydro, DF, and radar all together. In addition to the standard DCP and Repair. 

 

Consumable soup!  Who doesn't like having 90 buttons to push to activate one of 90 consumables! :D

 

On 12/27/2017 at 2:07 PM, Doomlock said:

3. Shell arcs should be similar to Cleveland. Same guns, same shells. So therefore, same arcs.

 

Yup, definitely should be!

 

On 12/27/2017 at 2:07 PM, Doomlock said:

4. Worcester's AA is comparable to Des Moines, as it should be. 

 

Should actually be BETTER than Des Moines AA because Des Moines main battery was never utilized in an anti-aircraft role.  The Worcester's primary armament was designed explicitly for this role.  They carried the same number of 3"/50 mounts though.

 

On 12/27/2017 at 2:07 PM, Doomlock said:

5. No info on this option. 

 

Worcester has the fact that she existed going for her. Something Minotaur doesn't.

 

Fair winds and following seas captain! :Smile_honoring:

 

Personally, I think we need to wait to see what the ship actually does in battle before we start making ultimatums about the ship.  Saying that better armor would make the ship better ignores how armor works in this game.  Very few people would say Des Moines is "tanky", especially when compared to Baltimore which legitimately is tanky.  This has to do with citadel location between the two, relative maneuverability and the levels of armor there.  I'm not sure I'd get too hopeful for Worcester having Des Moines' bow of 15" AP shell bouncing glory...  One need only look at other high tier cruisers for the relative armor level of them in game.

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Speculative Worcester AA

  • 11x Twin 76mm/50: 5.0km, 306.9dps
  • 2x Single 76mm/50: 5.0km, 28.0dps
  • 6x Twin 152mm/47: 6.0km, 108 - 120dps (estimated 18~22dps / turret)

Say hello to new queen of AA.

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4 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

Speculative Worcester AA

  • 11x Twin 76mm/50: 5.0km, 306.9dps
  • 2x Single 76mm/50: 5.0km, 28.0dps
  • 6x Twin 152mm/47: 6.0km, 108 - 120dps (estimated 18~22dps / turret)

Say hello to new queen of AA.

Don't forget to add in the Oerlikons. Going by the picture, I can see at least 6 of them per side, just like Des Moines, so that's an extra 43 dps without even speccing into AA.

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23 hours ago, Fletcher7_1944 said:

  Actually, in real life Des Moines 8" main guns WERE intended for use in the AA role.  

Just because they could doesn't mean they would have.  The range at which they could identify aircraft would put them too close for the guns of Des Moines to angle up to and traverse to.  That is not the case with these 6" gun mounts on Worcester. 

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*cracks knuckles*

Stats for a cruiser that's been int he game files for ages? Oh boy!

 

1. I don't know who's hull she's ripping off, but historically the belt arrest the magazines was 127mm thick, as was a (underwater) belt for the aft magazines. The forward magazines had underwater belts protecting them, but only 51mm thick it appears. The main deck was 89mm thick. Most of the extremity armor should be 27mm, as it is with all tier IX+ USN cruisers.

 

2. As Doom said. DF + Hydro + Radar in their own slots. Scary!

 

3. As Doom said again. Ballistically these are the exact same guns used on Cleveland, and seeing as you're using them since at least tier VII, you'll probably know these guns really well by the time you play Worcester.

 

4.The AA will not be as insane as many believe it will be, because the American 6" AA gun really isn't that hot. By itselfit'snot as good as Minotaur's AA... but Minotaur can't use Defensive Fire... Worcester can.

 

Des Moines AA is as follows, values totaled by caliber:

127mm AA: 90.6 dps @ 5.0 km

76mm AA: 334.8 dps @ 5.0 km

20mm AA: 43.2 dps @ 2.0 km

 

Worcester's AA is as such:

152mm AA: 75.6 - 76.2 dps @ 6.0 km

76mm AA:  345.5 - 346.3 dps @ 5.0 km

20mm AA: 73.2 dps @ 2.0 km

 

5. I dunno lol. Probably not, that's more the British thing

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22 hours ago, MrDeaf said:

Speculative Worcester AA

  • 11x Twin 76mm/50: 5.0km, 306.9dps
  • 2x Single 76mm/50: 5.0km, 28.0dps
  • 6x Twin 152mm/47: 6.0km, 108 - 120dps (estimated 18~22dps / turret)

Say hello to new queen of AA.

The dps is more like 12.6 or 12.7 dps per mount for the 152mm mounts. The single 76mm mounts should do 19.7-19.8 dps.

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On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 1:52 PM, UrPeaceKeeper said:

 

Consumable soup!  Who doesn't like having 90 buttons to push to activate one of 90 consumables! :D

 

Upon hitting the Battle button:

Error:  You may not enter battle in this ship as your premium consumables resupply has exhausted your remaining 200,000,000 credits, your ship has been repossessed, and your captain has been thrown into debtor's prison for the duration of the war.

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On 12/28/2017 at 2:32 PM, Fletcher7_1944 said:

  Actually, in real life Des Moines 8" main guns WERE intended for use in the AA role.  

Sorta, they couldn't load at high elevations so they were less than stellar at that role.

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1.  If you ask me, DM has pretty bad armor at T10. Only minotaur has worse defense. Shells seem to never overpenetrate DM. The citadel is also pretty large

2.  The question is which slot do they put DFAA and Hydro. Do they compete with heal or radar? Maybe she will get short range radar like Salem 

3. Current Cleveland HE shell travel time is even longer than Minotaur's short-fuse AP outside 10km. I feel there has to be a bit of buff there to make these USN CLs viable at high tiers. 

4. I think they will have strong AA. This is one of the biggest selling point of USN cruisers as they don't have torpedoes like UK ones.

5. Probably not. But it entirely depends on how they implement the armor model and the test result. If they need super heal to be viable, then let it be.

Edited by Exciton8964

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On 12/27/2017 at 3:07 PM, Doomlock said:

Well we know nothing about the ship except what she is IRL. 

 

1. Historically, she had the same hull as Des Moines, so therefore, should have similar armor.

 

2. From what Sub_Octavian said at Let's Battle Lexington, they are thinking of giving her hydro, DF, and radar all together. In addition to the standard DCP and Repair. 

 

3. Shell arcs should be similar to Cleveland. Same guns, same shells. So therefore, same arcs.

 

4. Worcester's AA is comparable to Des Moines, as it should be. 

 

5. No info on this option. 

 

Worcester has the fact that she existed going for her. Something Minotaur doesn't.

 

Fair winds and following seas captain! :Smile_honoring:

Worcester is a modiefied Baltimore hull, not a DM.  DM is much, much larger.

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Let's clarify what the Worcester is historically...

Basically, it is a Des Monies with twelve 6" guns instead of nine eight inchers. The 6"/47 Mk16DP are twin turrets basically the same guns you find on the Cleveland with one barrel removed and the remaining two grouped closer in the middle of the turret ring. This is to allows for the nearly vertical (80 degree) elevation capability needed of a true AA gun which the 8"/55 on the Des Moines was not capable of (40 degrees). The guns also got a dual hoist system -- separate hoists for AP and HC ammo, along with slightly faster firing rates (12 rpm). The guns are NOT automatic like the 8"/55 Mk16s on the Des Moines and really was no faster firing the automatic eight inch. Also, the ubiquitous 40mm Bofors and 20mm AA guns are gone, replaced by 23 x 76mm/50 DP guns (that's a lot of 76mm guns). It represented the final rendition of the US Navy's radar directed "all big gun" Flak doctrine of the late-40s which was extremely fleeting given the advent of the Triple-T (Terrier-Tartar-Talos) missile systems which survives to this day (The "Tartar" taking the "Standard Missile" name in 1963). Like the Des Moines there was never in intent to protect the cruiser for a ship-to-ship slug fest. You get 3"~5" plating over the barbettes and belt, essentially jack crapeverywhere else -- no better than 1930s cruisers despite having nearly three times their displacement.

That is the historical Worcester.

As far as WoW goes, expect the BEST AA rating for a cruiser. Expect the same rainbow arcs for the shells as the Cleveland. Expect the middling speeds of a US cruiser 32~33 knots. Expect to be erased by one or two salvos from the enemy if you are every detected in open waters. Expect to be hiding behind islands while relying on planes, friendlies and radar to allow you to mortar the enemy.

This is why I am kinda disaapointed with the split. The Worcester will play like the Des Moines. And, it is a missed opportunity to introduce a new dynamic to the game with the Alaska. I would have preferred if they cap the CL line with the Des Moines (fast firing guns) and the CA line with the Alaska.

 

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