Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Th3KrimzonD3mon

Why Having Ranked Right Now Was a Bad Idea

51 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

2,086
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
6,933 posts
7,508 battles

When I looked at Warshipstoday about 30 minutes ago, the server average WR for Season 8 at that time was 34%. 66% of the matches to that point were losses for a player. Sixty-six percent. A bunch of inexperienced and/or casual players due to the Xmas break, plus the influx of players from Steam made this a horrific time to hold a Ranked season, in my own opinion.

 

I'm currently at 50%, 17-17 after 34 rounds. I've spent the last 24 of those rounds at Rank 15, and it took me 10 rounds to get from 19 to 15, 7 to get off of 18 alone. I went 6-4 the first day(The day before the break started in full), 3-4 the next, 2-4 the next, 1-1 yesterday, and 5-4 today. I've run 8 ships, 3 of which have 0 wins, one which is 2-5, 3 that are 50%, and one I'm 9-1 in, even though the server average for it is 0%, Z-23. I'm 9-1 in ONE ship, and 8-16 in the other 7. 90%, 33%. Gah, I just can't even. The server-wide WR is what really tells the story, most players are losing, and losing badly.

 

This is, as of right now, the worst season I've played in, in every measurable way. I believe, aside from any other factors we may feel contribute, that the primary reason this season is so bad is the timing. In my own opinion, WG should have waited until the 2nd week of January to do it. I'm not going to talk about the MM, radar, etc, etc, those things can be overcome. What it appears can't be overcome is that the vast majority of the participants are really, really bad, much more so than usual. Again, the timing has to be why.

 

I'm not knocking the new and inexperienced players, they have to learn the game, just like anyone and everyone does. I do not blame them for my losses, or the server wide average as a whole. I blame the timing of the season. Could those players be better? Some could, of course, but the reality is most of them probably can't be for whatever reason. Had the season not been held right now, they wouldn't, for the most part, be participating. They're playing now simply because they can, and I can't fault them for that. I played in Season 5 with about 6 weeks in the game. It would be the ultimate hypocrisy to complain about that when I did it myself. They're playing because they can, and they have every right to do so.

 

WG, I beg you, don't do Ranked during Xmas break again. Please. Most of us aren't super unicum, we're average players, we need a decent team around us to succeed, and speaking for myself only, I feel like I have zero shot to advance any further, I feel like I'm wasting my time. That's the quickest way to get me to stop playing, causing me to feel like I'm wasting my time. Ranked is stressful and frustrating anyway, because winning, not how you perform, is the goal. It's far more stressful right now, so much so, again speaking for myself, that I really just want to quit and find something else to do, not because I feel I'm doing poorly, but because I feel that no matter how well I do, it just won't matter, because the evidence, to date, has shown this is the case.

 

The definition of insanity, if you recall, is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result, in spite of the evidence to the contrary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
720
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
6,175 battles

If you have the ability to influence the match then over time it'll work out. This is a statistical FACT. Volatility in MM, map and player pools, will eventually give way to your performance. Anyone can advance if their win rate is > 50%. Have you considered the possibility that you are just not that good?

 

I played 2 days of ranked during the christmas days. My performance and win rate in Ranked is same as previous seasons. 60 something percent win rate avg dmg is a few thousand lower and avg kills increased by 1/3, probably due to abnormally high amount of DDs. I only play Benson and quite deadly in it. Only played for two days reached rank 12, probably will continue in the next few weeks to get rank 10 and rest. The player pool below rank 10 is bad. It's basically the every one think they are the shat but all of them have dunning kruger. Once you get out of the bad player pool, ranked improves a bit. 

 

The only problem this season is seemingly a lot more AFKs for some odd reason. Also the ship match up in T8 is trash. Loyang, basically a benson with 5.4 km hydro, who the [edited] thought that's balanced?

 

edit: also z-23 is a meme ship, dont play that in ranked. People think it is good with a ok hydro. But it's vastly inferior to Loyang in both hydro range, maneuverability, and fire power. Z-23 is also inferior to Benson. In ranked battles, DDs actually contest points and knife fight often. Having an inferior DD without the skill to use said DD to fullest potential will not yield you good results. If you like having hydro on DDs, grab a Loyang. Or play a German BB, sits near a point and spray everything with your secondaries and detect everythign with 5km hydro. 

Edited by NeutralState

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,086
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
6,933 posts
7,508 battles
6 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

If you have the ability to influence the match then over time it'll work out. This is a statistical FACT. Volatility in MM, map and player pools, will eventually give way to your performance. Anyone can advance if their win rate is > 50%. Have you considered the possibility that you are just not that good?

 

I played 2 days of ranked during the christmas days. My performance and win rate in Ranked is same as previous seasons. 60 something percent win rate avg dmg is a few thousand lower and avg kills increased by 1/3, probably due to abnormally high amount of DDs. Only played for two days reached rank 12, probably will continue in the next few weeks to get rank 10 and rest. The player pool below rank 10 is bad. It's basically the everything they are the shat but all of them have dunning kruger. Once you get out of the bad player pool, ranked improves a bit. 

 

The only problem this season is seemingly a lot more AFKs for some odd reason. Also the ship match up in T8 is trash. Loyang, basically a benson with 5.4 km hydro, who the [edited] thought that's balanced?

Lo Yang is doing horribly in my rounds. I, personally, have yet to win with her, and iirc, no Lo Yang has even survived the match in any of my rounds.

 

Also, your backhanded insult wasn't appreciated. I already stated I was no super unicum, just an average player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
720
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
6,175 battles
4 minutes ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

Lo Yang is doing horribly in my rounds. I, personally, have yet to win with her, and iirc, no Lo Yang has even survived the match in any of my rounds.

 

Also, your backhanded insult wasn't appreciated. I already stated I was no super unicum, just an average player.

"i can't do good, therefore it's the ships/MM/map/others problem"

 

and by that logic

 

since I do very well, everything must be flawlessly designed.

 

Do you see the problem here?

 

The only problem at this MM tier's ranked play is the existence of Loyang. It dominates the meta. Loyang has to be nerfed, the hydro range has to be reduced or its camo rating nerfed by about 5%. 

Edited by NeutralState

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,793
[SALVO]
Members
17,053 posts
17,692 battles

Looking at the OP's referenced stat, how the hell can you have a server average WR for ranked of 34%???  For every player that loses, there's a player that wins.  The server average should be almost exactly 50%, barring the exceptionally rare draw, same as it would be in randoms.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
1,304 posts
6,543 battles

I'm just curious how the server average for ranked can be any less than 49% (to account for the occasional tie that somehow happens).  I personally find that this season's level of play is just fine.  Bad players will do bad player things, and good players will do good player things.  Early communication wins games.

Also you're holding 50%, and you say yourself you're an average player.  You've also climbed from 19 to 15 during this period.  It looks like you ARE influencing the matches you're in, even though it might not be noticeable to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,793
[SALVO]
Members
17,053 posts
17,692 battles
13 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

 

The only problem this season is seemingly a lot more AFKs for some odd reason. Also the ship match up in T8 is trash. Loyang, basically a benson with 5.4 km hydro, who the [edited] thought that's balanced?

I think that too many people look at that 5.4km hydro and know that the Lo Yang is a Benson and think that it's oh so great.  They overlook the fact that it's a C hull Benson, meaning that it has only FOUR main guns rather than the B hull Benson's FIVE.  Personally, I'd take the Benson every time over the Lo Yang.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
720
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
6,175 battles
2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Looking at the OP's referenced stat, how the hell can you have a server average WR for ranked of 34%???  For every player that loses, there's a player that wins.  The server average should be almost exactly 50%, barring the exceptionally rare draw, same as it would be in randoms.

 

if ranked indeed matches players against players of equal "skill". Everyone should end up at 50% win rate, but at different tiers. This is a matter of statistics and a fact.

 

OP's disappointed his valuation of his own skill is not matching the reality. OP should drop rank till his win rate becomes 50%. But that's not possible due to how the ranked mod is designed.

 

And there lies the root of toxic sludge that is lower ranked player pool. All of them should be at the very very bottom and should never be allowed to advance even to rank 15 due to "irrevocable rank". 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,312
[-TAB-]
Members
1,604 posts
5,168 battles
5 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

if ranked indeed matches players against players of equal "skill". Everyone should end up at 50% win rate, but at different tiers. This is a matter of statistics and a fact.

 

OP's disappointed his valuation of his own skill is not matching the reality. OP should drop rank till his win rate becomes 50%. But that's not possible due to how the ranked mod is designed.

 

And there lies the root of toxic sludge that is lower ranked player pool. All of them should be at the very very bottom and should never be allowed to advance even to rank 15 due to "irrevocable rank". 

am reading this thread and all posts in it with great interest. would ask all of you to consider something......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,793
[SALVO]
Members
17,053 posts
17,692 battles
20 minutes ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

I'm currently at 50%, 17-17 after 34 rounds. I've spent the last 24 of those rounds at Rank 15, and it took me 10 rounds to get from 19 to 15, 7 to get off of 18 alone. I went 6-4 the first day(The day before the break started in full), 3-4 the next, 2-4 the next, 1-1 yesterday, and 5-4 today. I've run 8 ships, 3 of which have 0 wins, one which is 2-5, 3 that are 50%, and one I'm 9-1 in, even though the server average for it is 0%, Z-23. I'm 9-1 in ONE ship, and 8-16 in the other 7. 90%, 33%. Gah, I just can't even. The server-wide WR is what really tells the story, most players are losing, and losing badly.

D3mon, pick 1 or 2 ships and stick with those.  Playing a wide variety of ships isn't helping you any.  Playing only 1 or 2 ships will let you get into a better rhythm with them and over the long haul, you should do better. 

I'm playing only 2, the Benson and the Kidd.  And frankly, they're so similar that making the switch is really painless.  Sure, the Kidd has one fewer torp launcher, but somewhat better guns.  But overall, they have about the same "feel" when I play them.  Same shell ballistics, in particular.

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

if ranked indeed matches players against players of equal "skill". Everyone should end up at 50% win rate, but at different tiers. This is a matter of statistics and a fact.

OP's disappointed his valuation of his own skill is not matching the reality. OP should drop rank till his win rate becomes 50%. But that's not possible due to how the ranked mod is designed.

A few points.

It doesn't matter about whether the battles are between players of equal or unequal skill.  The server average should never be far from 50%, because in every battle, every single battle, for every winner, there's also a loser.  Any deviation from 50% is entirely due to the rare draw.

As for the OP's valuation of his own skill, you can advance even with a straight up 50% WR, as long as you consistently are able to finish top of your team in base XP in losses.  And in my experience, this is best done playing USN gunboat DDs and being GOOD with them.  You go out there and grab a cap, spot the enemy, defeat enemy DD's in brawls whenever possible, and perhaps along the way, do some useful damage to enemy heavies.  That formula for success is simple, just requires skill to accomplish.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,722
[TBW]
Members
6,401 posts
12,031 battles

The math seems off.

21 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

also z-23 is a meme ship, dont play that in ranked.

Not many battles but 100% wins with z-23, I made rank 11 last night in 28 battles,Yet my WR for random is below 50%. Also I have been playing with all of the tier 8's (guess I'm not just a 1 trick pony). You seem to be a bit high on yourself I might add.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
720
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
6,175 battles
3 minutes ago, Crucis said:

D3mon, pick 1 or 2 ships and stick with those.  Playing a wide variety of ships isn't helping you any.  Playing only 1 or 2 ships will let you get into a better rhythm with them and over the long haul, you should do better. 

I'm playing only 2, the Benson and the Kidd.  And frankly, they're so similar that making the switch is really painless.  Sure, the Kidd has one fewer torp launcher, but somewhat better guns.  But overall, they have about the same "feel" when I play them.  Same shell ballistics, in particular.

 

 

 

A few points.

It doesn't matter about whether the battles are between players of equal or unequal skill.  The server average should never be far from 50%, because in every battle, every single battle, for every winner, there's also a loser.  Any deviation from 50% is entirely due to the rare draw.

As for the OP's valuation of his own skill, you can advance even with a straight up 50% WR, as long as you consistently are able to finish top of your team in base XP in losses.  And in my experience, this is best done playing USN gunboat DDs and being GOOD with them.  You go out there and grab a cap, spot the enemy, defeat enemy DD's in brawls whenever possible, and perhaps along the way, do some useful damage to enemy heavies.  That formula for success is simple, just requires skill to accomplish.

 

 

 

and the reason for that is given

1. people are still adjusting (ranked just began)

2. worse players like OP do not lose rank till they hit their true rating at the bottom of the pile

 

two combined give you this stat. But if you exclude ranked stats below 10, pretty sure the avg win rate is very close to 50. hmmm below rank 12 is good enough, actually, exclude stats below rank 12.

Edited by NeutralState

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,056
[BOSS]
Beta Testers
2,660 posts
10,313 battles

Any posts on Ranked that provide feedback on timing of event, format of event, or any variation of such should be shelved and not bothered to be posted.  Yes, we agree. Yes, we think it's odd.

 

...guess what, doesn't matter. Ranked has been the same and same and same angering process despite overwhelming feedback for change. Nothing happens. WG DON'T CARE.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,793
[SALVO]
Members
17,053 posts
17,692 battles

 

2 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

The math seems off.

Not many battles but 100% wins with z-23, I made rank 11 last night in 28 battles, Yet my WR for random is below 50%. Also I have been playing with all of the tier 8's (guess I'm not just a 1 trick pony). You seem to be a bit high on yourself I might add.

Dawg, if you're able to progress playing through a number of tier 8's, good for you.  I think that for most players, particularly more average players, they're better off sticking to a single ship, maybe 2.  And if those 2 ships are quite alike, so much the better.  ("Alike" as in the Kidd/Benson/Lo Yang/Hsienyang or the Alabama/NC, for example.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
720
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
6,175 battles
Just now, TurboT said:

Any posts on Ranked that provide feedback on timing of event, format of event, or any variation of such should be shelved and not bothered to be posted.  Yes, we agree. Yes, we think it's odd.

 

...guess what, doesn't matter. Ranked has been the same and same and same angering process despite overwhelming feedback for change. Nothing happens. WG DON'T CARE.

 

No the timing's not odd. It's the holidays and people are in spending mood. As a for profit company this is a great time to roll out ranked and set it at T8.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,228
[GWG]
[GWG]
Members
5,405 posts
9,562 battles

Well...  As of now, I'm a zero percent win.

Checked in a couple matches to collect my flags.  First match, I was the only battleship fighting.  Enemy had both caps and my team was hiding behind islands.

I knocked down a couple cruisers in health, and team-mates sniped the last few HP.

I'm backing up and taking the continuous focus fire I was expecting (set up ship and captain to withstand it)...  and my team never pushed.  They were parked.

After a couple minutes of the pounding, North Carilina started to repeatedly citadel my Bismarck.  Range was 15km, and I was angled 45 degrees.  What gives?  Boom..  Boom.. Boom..  and I'm down from 80% to zero in 5 seconds.  Team-mates all started getting one-shotted, and the game folded a few seconds later.

Second match, I derped.  Sailed my DD into an uncontested cap with two DDs waiting on me just outside it.  How they got there so fast, I'll never know.  And how did they know how to coordinate efforts so fluently?  It's like they practiced the move and knew exactly where to be.

This season of ranked seems more out-of-control than any other I've played as far as RNG goes.  But I've only played two..  Maybe that's two too many.  Anyway, I got my flags..  Bye!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
720
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
6,175 battles
1 minute ago, AVR_Project said:

Well...  As of now, I'm a zero percent win.

Checked in a couple matches to collect my flags.  First match, I was the only battleship fighting.  Enemy had both caps and my team was hiding behind islands.

I knocked down a couple cruisers in health, and team-mates sniped the last few HP.

I'm backing up and taking the continuous focus fire I was expecting (set up ship and captain to withstand it)...  and my team never pushed.  They were parked.

After a couple minutes of the pounding, North Carilina started to repeatedly citadel my Bismarck.  Range was 15km, and I was angled 45 degrees.  What gives?  Boom..  Boom.. Boom..  and I'm down from 80% to zero in 5 seconds.  Team-mates all started getting one-shotted, and the game folded a few seconds later.

Second match, I derped.  Sailed my DD into an uncontested cap with two DDs waiting on me just outside it.  How they got there so fast, I'll never know.  And how did they know how to coordinate efforts so fluently?  It's like they practiced the move and knew exactly where to be.

This season of ranked seems more out-of-control than any other I've played as far as RNG goes.  But I've only played two..  Maybe that's two too many.  Anyway, I got my flags..  Bye!

15 km.... your deck's getting pounded hard if you are getting actually citadeled in a german ship, close the distance. If you can't due to enemy presence, then your target priority is off from the start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,793
[SALVO]
Members
17,053 posts
17,692 battles
3 minutes ago, TurboT said:

Any posts on Ranked that provide feedback on timing of event, format of event, or any variation of such should be shelved and not bothered to be posted.  Yes, we agree. Yes, we think it's odd.

 

...guess what, doesn't matter. Ranked has been the same and same and same angering process despite overwhelming feedback for change. Nothing happens. WG DON'T CARE.

 

Or maybe WG doesn't agree with some people's assessments of whatever.  I think that saying that WG doesn't care makes a rather arrogant assumption that the person saying they don't care is right and that WG must therefore be wrong.  Ya know, sometimes the person making the assertion simply isn't right.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,722
[TBW]
Members
6,401 posts
12,031 battles
Just now, Crucis said:

 

Dawg, if you're able to progress playing through a number of tier 8's, good for you.  I think that for most players, particularly more average players, they're better off sticking to a single ship, maybe 2.  And if those 2 ships are quite alike, so much the better.  ("Alike" as in the Kidd/Benson/Lo Yang/Hsienyang or the Alabama/NC, for example.)

I agree with you completely, the reason that I am running the ships is that they are the ones I have to grind to 9. I had 6 to grind but am now down to 5. So the ships I have been using are tech tree ships. which should show you that they are not weak or inferior to a premium ship. When I have gotten all of my tier 8 xp and research my tier 9's, I will probably settle with 1 or 2 premiums. The hardest ones are definitely the cruisers. I am in no way encouraging people to use multiple ships. I am as surprised at the present out come and am just waiting for the other foot to drop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,793
[SALVO]
Members
17,053 posts
17,692 battles
2 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

I agree with you completely, the reason that I am running the ships is that they are the ones I have to grind to 9. I had 6 to grind but am now down to 5. So the ships I have been using are tech tree ships. which should show you that they are not weak or inferior to a premium ship. When I have gotten all of my tier 8 xp and research my tier 9's, I will probably settle with 1 or 2 premiums. The hardest ones are definitely the cruisers. I am in no way encouraging people to use multiple ships. I am as surprised at the present out come and am just waiting for the other foot to drop.

If you're playing Ranked more for the tier 8 grinding opportunities than for advancing through the ranks, what you're doing makes a ton of sense.  After all, the XP and credit rewards in Ranked battles are on par with Randoms (I think), and obviously you're only going to be facing other tier 8's.  So what's not to like here for tier 8 grinding?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,228
[GWG]
[GWG]
Members
5,405 posts
9,562 battles
5 minutes ago, NeutralState said:

15 km.... your deck's getting pounded hard if you are getting actually citadeled in a german ship, close the distance. If you can't due to enemy presence, then your target priority is off from the start.

I'm talking about the 'Troll RNG' effect we see all the time in Random.

It's the ..  we are doing OK..   then 5 team-mates die off within seconds of each other and you are left wondering what the heck happened.

It's when every enemy shot hits you while you are twisting and running..  17KM away from a Nagato.

It's when you fire at an enemy -- stuck on an island...  and all the shots go left or right.

It would be nice if this simply wouldn't happen...  but it's part of the game..  working as intended.

I've beaten the game when it gets like this, but my team has to be VERY smart, and the enemy team must be VERY stupid...  like not taking any caps stupid.

As you say, getting close does counteract this effect.  That's the mistake made by those who are winning too easily.  They get overconfident and blunder their way into a close-order knife-fight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
198
[WOLF1]
Members
619 posts
12,934 battles
5 minutes ago, Crucis said:

If you're playing Ranked more for the tier 8 grinding opportunities than for advancing through the ranks, what you're doing makes a ton of sense.  After all, the XP and credit rewards in Ranked battles are on par with Randoms (I think), and obviously you're only going to be facing other tier 8's.  So what's not to like here for tier 8 grinding?

Image result for you sexy beast gif I see you...you sexy beast. I'm coming for ya.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,722
[TBW]
Members
6,401 posts
12,031 battles
4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

So what's not to like here for tier 8 grinding?

So my logic isn't flawed then? I had many tier 8's to grind. They are all upgraded and have good captains in them, a 10 pointer is the lowest 1 and I am not seeing 9's or 10's and am making bank XP, elite XP/commander XP and credits, due to flags and 200% bonus's and camos. Seems like a win win to me.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
720
[NEUTR]
Members
2,207 posts
6,175 battles
2 minutes ago, knice_destroyer said:

Image result for you sexy beast gif I see you...you sexy beast. I'm coming for ya.

Why encourage bad behavior in ranked?

An actual competitive mode with less players on each team than random, which mean each player has to pull a lot more weight.

He deliberately brings in a ship that needs "grinding" and shat on his team before the match's even started.

 

If anything in Ranked needs changing is that it MUST require a fully researched ship and a captain with at least 10 points. I've seen DDs in ranked without camo skill on captain, getting detected 1 km earlier and gets deleted without even getting into the point. That's not acceptable and not fair to other players on the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×