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dmckay

Indecisive. Cruisers T-5-6-7

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Got a pre-paid card for Christmas.  Want a new good premium cruiser tier 5-6-maybe 7.  Asked about Graf Spee earlier. Got good feedback.  Some positive some negative. Any other suggestions?  I have never bought a premium ship. I like fast firing guns but I even better like ships that are OP in their tier....I need a GOOD ship. Help.  Tks

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TLDR:  "No" to any Tier V-VII Premium Cruiser.  If you want a Premium Cruiser, go Tier VIII with Atago or Kutuzov.

Tier V-VI get s--t on pretty bad by MM.  Murmansk, DeGrasse, Graf Spee will do amazing if they are top tier but will struggle when facing VII-VIII competition.  It's why I drift away from my Cruisers of those tiers, except for Cleveland.  Molotov is a great example.  If she's top tier, she will pulverize ships.  But with the MM changes, she's seeing VII-VIII ships on a frequent basis that have long range prowess, power.  Amagi for example is a BB with great ranged prowess and has a lot of guns.  She will easily obliterate Molotov at ranges she thinks she's safe at.  Even the Cruisers of VII-VIII can effectively engage Molotov and make her pay for her poor armor.

 

For VII Cruisers, that leaves Atlanta, Indianapolis if they have it.

Indianapolis is very problematic.  Sturdier than Atlanta but with all the BBs sailing around, that doesn't matter.  She has fewer guns than Pensacola and sails worse than Pensacola.  With all the BBs around, you want the extra agility and extra gun.  Indianapolis in last Tier VII Ranked was one of the worst performing ships.

DAzDYie.jpg

The only worse ship in Ranked than Indianapolis is Ranger, and Ranger is godawful.  Anything else was better than Indianapolis.  She's garbage.

 

Which leaves Atlanta.  I'd recommend her because she is unique among all Cruisers.  HOWEVER, she is *****extremely unforgiving*****.  She has very spammy guns but her practical engagement ranges are short because the shells float too long in the air.  Her protection is so poor and she has the reputation to be squished easily.  Make a mistake in Atlanta and you often will not live long enough to make another one.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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What Haze says is very good advice.. 

I would add the suggestion of buying doubloons and getting Perth.  Good jack-of-all-trades cruiser, main drawback is no other line to use the captain on.

Atlanta is going to require a learning curve for it's glass sides, and high gun arc.. But, it's still a good choice.

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Premium cruisers:

Atlanta is fun but tough to play well. Not for everybody.

Indianapolis I wouldn't recommend. Pensacola is better ATM.

De Grasse is one of the best T6 Premiums.. Perth is interesting too, but not as good.

Molotov is interesting like Graf Spee. Big guns on a squishy gull.

I would not recommend Duca D'Aosta or Graf Spee (my opinion only of course)

Murmansk and Omaha are both very good, if you can deal with squishy cruisers, and being uptiered often.

If you are up to T8 Atago is a good choice.

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27 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

TLDR:  "No" to any Tier V-VII Premium Cruiser.  If you want a Premium Cruiser, go Tier VIII with Atago or Kutuzov.

Tier V-VI get s--t on pretty bad by MM.  Murmansk, DeGrasse, Graf Spee will do amazing if they are top tier but will struggle when facing VII-VIII competition.  It's why I drift away from my Cruisers of those tiers, except for Cleveland.  Molotov is a great example.  If she's top tier, she will pulverize ships.  But with the MM changes, she's seeing VII-VIII ships on a frequent basis that have long range prowess, power.  Amagi for example is a BB with great ranged prowess and has a lot of guns.  She will easily obliterate Molotov at ranges she thinks she's safe at.  Even the Cruisers of VII-VIII can effectively engage Molotov and make her pay for her poor armor.

 

For VII Cruisers, that leaves Atlanta, Indianapolis if they have it.

Indianapolis is very problematic.  Sturdier than Atlanta but with all the BBs sailing around, that doesn't matter.  She has fewer guns than Pensacola and sails worse than Pensacola.  With all the BBs around, you want the extra agility and extra gun.  Indianapolis in last Tier VII Ranked was one of the worst performing ships.

 

Haze, the Kutozov (and Belfast) are no longer for sale.  You might be able to get one in a Santa box, but I wouldn't hang my hat on getting lucky enough to get one.

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I don't have the Indianapolis, but understand that it's fairly weak.  That said, it has one advantage going for it from my perspective.  It should play like a more traditional heavy cruiser, and if you know how to play the Pensacola, that knowledge should also hold true for the Indy.  OTOH, the Atlanta has a very unique play style, and quite frankly, I don't think that it's a great trainer for USN cruiser captains.  Odd as it may seem, I think that it's a better trainer for USN DD's than USN cruisers. Or as a premium that benefits best from a captain trained specifically for the Altanta.

 

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Dude Russian cruisers none of them are bad. Atlanta is overrated Indianapolis is underrated. 

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Additional food for thought from a decidedly average player.

These are the currently available Premium cruisers in Tier 5-7 that I have and my thoughts on them.  I have ordered these by my personal Random Battles winrate in each cruiser:

  • HSF Admiral Graf Spee (identical to Admiral Graf Spee with an anime captain and camo option): My winrate (>75%) here is the best of any cruiser in T5-7.  This is not an easy ship to play well.  It has hard hitting, but slow firing guns.  You do well when you have support.  We all goes well, it is glorious, there will be much frustration as well.
  • Duca d'Aosta: This is likely the ship I would recommend if you really want a premium cruiser in the Tier 5-7 range.  She is fast, has fairly effective guns with high velocity shells.  The torpedoes are very situational, but can enhance your effect on the battle.
  • Atlanta: This cruiser plays much more like a large DD.  You have practically no armor.  However, this is a very fun ship to play with the fast firing guns.  The high arcs will be a challenge at any significant range, but are also very useful in shooting over islands (this requires someone else to spot your targets).  A dedicated captain will do best, but you can use this for training.

I have Murmansk and Perth, but I have less than 10 battles each.  I have one more win than loss in each.  I don't quite have a handle on their proper play.

I also have De Grasse and Indianapolis, but I am below 50% in each of these, so I am not the one to ask about them.

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Whatever you do, do not jump straight to T8.  Just don't, you will probably be miserable.  Grind there first and make an educated purchase.  I hated my T8 cruiser grind.  In my T6s I was facing 1 to 3 T8s.  In my T8 I saw 1 or 2 other T8s and the rest were T9s and T10s.  Seeing a couple T8s in a T6 is nothing compared to seeing half a team of T10s in a T8. T8 cruisers are just in a rough spot against that kind of fire power, speed, and range. 

DeGrasse feels good, she has nice guns and a few nice torps and she isn't too squishy comparatively.  I only have a few games in it, but I already like it better than my old favorite the Nurnberg and I like her way better than the Cleveland. 

Molotov has also been good fun in the few games I have in her, but she is squishy and has a wide turn radius (but those guns...).

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7 hours ago, alexf24 said:

Molotov is interesting like Graf Spee. Big guns on a squishy gull.

Graf Spee is FAR from squishy. GS has the best armor and health pool of any tier 6 Cruiser and better than some tier 7s. She also has good maneuverability and her guns hit like a runaway truck. However, the long reload time, 20 seconds, makes her effectiveness at killing DDs iffy at best.

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I got Duca d'Aosta, very few games with this ship but it seems a good one. But you need to play this ship in a agressive way. If you like to play agressive Duca might be a good choice for you. 

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Personally until they fix MM I’d stay away from any premium Cruiser mid tier.. spending real $$ To buy a V and facing Cruisers that shoot further are faster with better armor because there Vll is just not fun, forecast to change in 2018 and it’s about time

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2 hours ago, HMCS_Devilfish said:

Personally until they fix MM I’d stay away from any premium Cruiser mid tier..

Don't think there is any plan to FIX this part of MM. There is a statement indicating WG might increase the number of low tier ships (never just one on a side) so you would theoretically have more targets available that are also bottom tier. The fact that the high tier ships can and will to target these bottom tier ships as a priority because they are easy kills will remain.

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46 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Don't think there is any plan to FIX this part of MM. There is a statement indicating WG might increase the number of low tier ships (never just one on a side) so you would theoretically have more targets available that are also bottom tier. The fact that the high tier ships can and will to target these bottom tier ships as a priority because they are easy kills will remain.

Apperently Wows has indicted that and this is there an analogy that they recognize a tierV ship facing  tier Vll ship can be frustrating and plans to lower the frequency this happens in 2018 ... here’s hoping 

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On 12/25/2017 at 3:50 PM, Crucis said:

Haze, the Kutozov (and Belfast) are no longer for sale.  You might be able to get one in a Santa box, but I wouldn't hang my hat on getting lucky enough to get one.

Then that leaves Atago.  I just cannot honestly recommend the Premium Cruisers from the other tiers with clear approval.  ATL & Indianapolis have major, major issues.  V-VI get shafted by MM.  Which is a shame because there are various decent Cruisers in there if MM doesn't shaft them so hard.  Even Atago has the caveat of being a floating citadel.

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3 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Then that leaves Atago.  I just cannot honestly recommend the Premium Cruisers from the other tiers with clear approval.  ATL & Indianapolis have major, major issues.  V-VI get shafted by MM.  Which is a shame because there are various decent Cruisers in there if MM doesn't shaft them so hard.  Even Atago has the caveat of being a floating citadel.

Cruisers are cruisers.  They're all relatively squishy.

I think that the Atlanta can be a very fun ship to play, but I don't see it as a very good cruiser trainer because a traditional cruiser captain's skill set up won't mesh well with the ATL.  In this regard, the Indy is better in that it's a traditional cruiser (however weak a ship it is) and a traditional cruiser captain's set of skills should translate quite well into her.

I think that others have made a fair point about the Spee perhaps being the best premium cruiser in this tier range, due to it being a fairly tough nut with nasty guns, though it doesn't really possess traditional cruiser speed.

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On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 10:09 AM, HMCS_Devilfish said:

Personally until they fix MM I’d stay away from any premium Cruiser mid tier.. spending real $$ To buy a V and facing Cruisers that shoot further are faster with better armor because there Vll is just not fun, forecast to change in 2018 and it’s about time

Oh good grief. Unless you get yourself a tier 10 cruiser, you'll always be finding yourself being out ranged by higher tier cruisers.  That's life in the  big city.

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54 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Oh good grief. Unless you get yourself a tier 10 cruiser, you'll always be finding yourself being out ranged by higher tier cruisers.  That's life in the  big city.

Mid tier V Cruisers are in a bad spot because of MM, 6 and 7s are good and you can seal club the 5s

6 and 7s have enough going for them to still have a playable fun factor when facing higher tier ships

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What nations are you playing? If you are favouring one over all others, maybe you should go for a premium in that line/nation.

AFAIK both Italy and the Commonwealth have NO regular tech tree and I don't know whether they will have one in the foreseeable future. So unless Italy gets one or the Commonwealth gets a crossover with the UK (or Poland or both), I personally would be loath to put actual money down for a premium ship in those lines. The Italian ships at least have the advantage that there are more of them, with another coming, and a case can be made for being able to switch captains around between them. I have the Vampire, but that's because I won her for nothing. (I am, from time to time, sorely tempted by the Mikasa, but I have no desire to climb any Axis Power or USSR tech tree because reasons.)

I am very sorry that I didn't have enough time on my hands or expertise in the time available to win the DoY; she would have been a good premium to have, as I am already grinding British battleships and cruisers. Hopefully something comes up this year with a somewhat more achievable mission set. 

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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The cheeky bugger in me says Scharnhorst at Tier 7... it's Cruiser-Esque enough for it to be tossed around every so often when someone is looking for a Cruiser around the Tiers mentioned. 

Personally I've enjoyed Graf Spee, Atlanta, and Belfast. But nothing is comparable to the amount of enjoyment I get from Atago at T8 is leaps and bounds higher that the other 3. 

But  from an MM and Experience standpoint, jumping to T8 is tough. If you have one of the ARP Myoko's might want to play around in that before grabbing an Atago. 

Atago was one of my first Premiums purchased. It sat in port until I grinned halfway through main line Myoko. Took it out to the odd custom match but PvP I was always being tossed into T10 matches where the style of play was vastly different from mid-tiers. 

---

So if you're still undecided and have equivalent Tiered Cruisers in the main tech trees (T8+), take Atago. 

Otherwise can't go wrong with a GS, Atlanta, or Indy. Or better yet Scharnhorst ... lol.  

And if you've got an ARP Myoko variant you've got T7 "premium" checked off already. Sure it's minus some bonuses but it's still a Cruiser you can Train your other IJN Commanders in. 

Some of the T5 cruisers, none of which I own, don't appeal to me due to MM. I'm sure some of them are loads of fun. But if I want to play lower Tiers in a Cruiser I'll take out my Yubari who's MM is better than the T5 guys. 

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On 12/25/2017 at 4:39 PM, OtterWolf said:

Atlanta is going to require a learning curve for it's glass sides, and high gun arc.. But, it's still a good choice.

Atlanta also pretty much needs a dedicated captain because it doesn't share many optimal skill choices with the rest of the USN cruisers. I would also advise to look into the Scharnhorst unless you are set on getting a cruiser. The Scharnhorst is in that weird area of Battlecruiser where it's just enough of both classes to fill the role of both.

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My choice would also the Atlanta  and my Cleveland is not that bad either.

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None. No T5-7 cruiser is worth it. All are either flawed or suffer bad MM.  Save your money. (Atago is OK at T8 but gets uptiered a lot)

Quote

I like fast firing guns but I even better like ships that are OP in their tier....I need a GOOD ship. Help.  Tks

Get a Scharnhorst if you don't have it - plays like a cruiser, but does not get bent over by MM nor BB shells. Very fast firing guns for a BB.
Other suggestion is a spammy DD like Leningrad or Blyskawica (still on sale?) for a cruiser-without-citadel experience. Great rapid fire shooting, very cruiser-like.

Lol I see I'm late to the party.....

Quote

 

TLDR:  "No" to any Tier V-VII Premium Cruiser.  If you want a Premium Cruiser, go Tier VIII with Atago

Tier V-VI get s--t on pretty bad by MM.  Murmansk, DeGrasse, Graf Spee will do amazing if they are top tier but will struggle when facing VII-VIII competition. 

 

Quote

Then that leaves Atago.  I just cannot honestly recommend the Premium Cruisers from the other tiers with clear approval.  ATL & Indianapolis have major, major issues.  V-VI get shafted by MM. 

Quote

Personally until they fix MM I’d stay away from any premium Cruiser mid tier..

Quote

I would also advise to look into the Scharnhorst unless you are set on getting a cruiser. The Scharnhorst is in that weird area of Battlecruiser where it's just enough of both classes to fill the role of both.

Quote

 

The cheeky bugger in me says Scharnhorst at Tier 7... it's Cruiser-Esque enough for it to be tossed around every so often when someone is looking for a Cruiser around the Tiers mentioned. 

But nothing is comparable to the amount of enjoyment I get from Atago at T8 is leaps and bounds higher that the other 3.

 

Quote

T5 cruisers, none of which I own, don't appeal to me due to MM.

This ^

Edited by evilleMonkeigh

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^^ is probably the best selection.  Scharnhorst plays much like a cruiser. 

T5 and 6 are boned in matchmaking.  T7 is boned in cruiser quality.  If Belfast was still available, I'd endorse it enthusiastically.  Of the two available cruisers, Indianapolis and Atlanta, Atlanta is the better ship.  Indianapolis has a lot of problems, and the improved ROF that people like to ask for fixes exactly zero of them.  Indy will do decent damage, as long as she lives.  That lives part is the problem. She's a big, easy target to hit.  Her armor converts 10% overpens into 33% pens.  She's sluggish, unlike Pensacola, and doesn't dance as well.  Somehow, the 10k ton standard Indianapolis has fewer hit points than the 9100 standard ton Pensacola.  Seriously, Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot?  Her radar is short duration, long range.  Yay?  She doesn't have the ROF to take advantage of it, and the often asked for bump to 13 second reload won't help that.  I honestly feel more "safe" when I play my Molotov than I do my Indianapolis.  She's harder to hit.

Atlanta on the other hand, has it's own unique sets of problems.  She requires the enemy to be stupid.  Now, there's no shortage of stupid enemy players, but finding the perfect positions to set up can be difficult.  Then you require idiots who can't pay attention to drive into your ultra short range.  Once they are there, you pray that they don't know WASD.  When I play my Belfast, Atlantas don't even make me smoke up.  A little turn here or there, and they will struggle to connect hits on you because the shell travel time is so terrible.  That pretty much reduces you to stupid battleship players who can't move and stupid DD players who don't watch the minimap and avoid you.  Sometimes I'm the idiot who wanders into range and manages to die to an Atlanta in a DD, but that's rare.  Usually, I just stay away from them at close range, and laugh at them at long range.  I often think to myself, awwww, that Spamlanta thinks he's going to hit me at this range.  That's cute.

None of these are worth playing imo.  I dislike playing my Indianapolis.  As a US cruiser fan, I /want/ to love it, but it's one of my least favorite ships to play.  Atlanta I enjoy playing from time to time, however I abuse them too often in just about anything else I drive enough to know that it's not worthy of respect, and is also squishy.

Of all the T5 and 6 cruisers out there, the only ones I can bring myself to recommend are Molotov and Graf Spee.  Graf Spee doesn't really have the rapid reloads you're looking for, and has wonky dispersion.  The torpedoes are bloody fantastic, and utterly devastating on a stern crossover engagement.  Yesterday or the day before, I ended up at point blank range vs a New Mex.  He dodged my first salvo of torps by turning inside and slowing down.  I ran down his side faster than his guns could track and reversed my turn.  He didn't dodge the second salvo of torps, they were nearly undodge-able.  The guns rip off huge chunks of health against battleships with well aimed (read not shooting at the waterline, aimed at the deckline, or slightly below) shots, she's murder on broadside cruisers, and even puts in solid work at hitting DD's who don't respect it with WASD.  Love my Spee.

Molotov is soft, but fast and has great guns.  Those 180s have a 13 second reload IIRC, and are ultra high velocity.  She flat wrecks cruisers that get sideways.  Her HE is excellent at starting fires.  She's also fast and with a CE captain, pretty stealthy.  Molotov helped make me a better player.  Since the MM changes, I don't play her as often, but her performance has remained consistent for me.  Unlike ships like the Duca d'Aosta, Molotovs guns make her a threat when uptiered.  When in doubt, spam HE with guns that make scoring hits easy.  Angle and WASD, her low profile is hard to hit.  When she gets hit, she get hit VERY hard, but I prefer her survivability and guns to fat indy and her 203s with loopy HE.

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