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T8 Ranked a mistake?

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4 hours ago, inktomi19d said:

Tier 8 doesn’t seem to have very balanced ships. The BBs are okay, but it’s heavily skewed to USN gunboat DDs (which actually makes those DDs less effective, since every fight is basically 2 Bensons).

CAs are even worse off, since only 2 have radar, but they are kinda crappy. They can have a niche spamming HE from long range, but that doesn’t decide battles, it just helps the cruiser player get a high score. 

Tier 6 really seemed to be the most competitive tier, with the largest number of acceptable ships. 

in my current 17 matches I've seen Kidd, Benson, Akizuki, Kagero, Z23, Kiev, and Yo Lang. Yo Lang and Kidd seem to be in every match followed by Benson and Z23.

 

3 T8 cruisers can have radar. Everyone seems to forget the Edinburgh. Remembering it can be packing saved my rear in at least 2 matches and I watched a friendly Edin wreck a pair of DD's who forgot that detail.

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I saw an atago in a ranked battle, and shot at it several times. then I was distracted by something else, and after that don't remember. come to think of it, it might not have been an atago. no, it was. well, pretty sure it was. 

either way, I do remember I was distracted, and by the time I got back to looking for the atago (?) it was too late. yet we won that battle !!! I got four kills and star.

(ed. note: I just looked it up, and I sank that atago, and 3 other ships in that battle too. I have no recollection of why I was even mentioning this.)

sorry, please go back to whatever it was you were trying to do in this thread. my bad.

Edited by not_acceptable

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the ranked tier 8 is way better then the tier 7 we had last time

as for the games i have had games that where bb/dd/ca heavy 

the cv how ever is not played in a high number:etc_hide_turtle:

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4 hours ago, inktomi19d said:

Tier 8 doesn’t seem to have very balanced ships. The BBs are okay, but it’s heavily skewed to USN gunboat DDs (which actually makes those DDs less effective, since every fight is basically 2 Bensons).

CAs are even worse off, since only 2 have radar, but they are kinda crappy. They can have a niche spamming HE from long range, but that doesn’t decide battles, it just helps the cruiser player get a high score. 

Tier 6 really seemed to be the most competitive tier, with the largest number of acceptable ships. 

That's kind of the point in Ranked.  By all means, Win Above All Else.  But when you get a sack of potatoes, he who has the highest score saves their Star.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

That's kind of the point in Ranked.  By all means, Win Above All Else.  But when you get a sack of potatoes, he who has the highest score saves their Star.

I know that it is the point, but that doesn’t mean it should be

At tier 7 there were a lot of premium cruisers, but they were participating with their team and had a lot of influence on the outcome of the game. In tier 6, the cruisers also mostly worked with their team, and had some influence on the outcome. 

At tier 8, I occasionally see a NO or a Chappy which is working with the team to spot, but I’ve mostly been seen Kutuzovs and Charles Martels which do nothing but spam HE from range, and aren’t very decisive. They aren’t bullying caps or killing DDs; they are mostly just farming damage off BBs to pump up their score. This time around the cruisers aren’t really contributing to wins or losses, but a couple people are using them just to try to avoid losing a star. 

The real problem is that tier 8 is just bad for cruisers. You can’t push up to a cap in a cruiser at that tier, and radar is not nearly as important as in past seasons, so all cruisers really have is farming damage.

Overall, tier 6 seemed to be the best tier, since everything is still useful at that tier.

 

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So far I've had 1 game with a majority of Cruisers, and the rest were back and forth between DDs and BBs.

Last season was the worst. Cruisers were incredibly lousy and meant nothing.

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17 hours ago, inktomi19d said:

At tier 8, I occasionally see a NO or a Chappy which is working with the team to spot, but I’ve mostly been seen Kutuzovs and Charles Martels which do nothing but spam HE from range, and aren’t very decisive. They aren’t bullying caps or killing DDs; they are mostly just farming damage off BBs to pump up their score. This time around the cruisers aren’t really contributing to wins or losses, but a couple people are using them just to try to avoid losing a star. 

Seeing lots of New Orleans and Chappys and Atagos. Fewer Kutuzovs and Martels for the reasons you name. I tried Kooter in Ranked and sure enough, I racked up good damage, coming in first in losses many times, and getting High Caliber several times. Big damage, but zero carry. Simply had no effect on the game, as far as I could tell. Ended up with 40% win rate in it.

Going back to Tirpitz for that reason.

The key to this season is the DD play. Once again, its Benson and Loyang. Kag is not useful since it cant shoot its way out of trouble and can't put down low health ships with guns alone. I liked Z23 but couldn't win in it. 

Pretty much once a DD is lost, it's over. If both DDs on one team are lost, you may as well just exit. No point in finishing.

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4 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

 

The key to this season is the DD play. Once again, its Benson and Loyang. Kag is not useful since it cant shoot its way out of trouble and can't put down low health ships with guns alone. I liked Z23 but couldn't win in it. 

Pretty much once a DD is lost, it's over. If both DDs on one team are lost, you may as well just exit. No point in finishing.

I’m actually wondering if there might be a niche for more torpedo-focused DDs. The thing with the gunboats, is that as soon as two DDs spot each other, it’s pretty random which one will survive, and it matters much more to have a team that all immediately shoot at the other DD than to be able to gun it down yourself. Even in the gunboats, it seems to often be better to save the guns for late in a match, or to bait the enemy into shooting first so you can get back out to a safe distance and keep them spotted. 

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18 hours ago, CaptGodzillaPig said:

Not sure what you have been into, but every ranked game I have been in has been decided by the DD's.  First caps..  most caps..  Keep caps.   I started this campaign in my Bis, as a KM BB main player, and ditched that in a hurry.  This is DD land. 

Bbs to farm and tank damage, Dds to win matches.

  • Cool 1

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18 hours ago, Crucis said:

There was one season that was pretty much World of Bensons and Bismarcks. 

As for cruisers, sometimes the cry is to take him out first, specifically if it's a radar cruiser.  Otherwise, any desire to nuke the cruiser is just based on him being the softest ship and therefore the easiest kill, thus the easiest way to gain a quick advantage.

 

Honestly, I think that the only way that we'd start seeing more cruisers in ranked on a consistent basis would be for there to be limits on BBs and DDs.  Something like no more than 2 BBs and perhaps no more than 2-3 DDs.  A big problem cruisers face is when there are 4 BBs out there, it's next to impossible for the cruiser to hide his broadside from all 4 of those BBs.  Add to that, some of the cruisers at tier 8 don't have the longest range cruiser guns.  The Atago (and  Takao), for example.  At tier 8, having only a 15.5 km range (IIRC) doesn't leave you a lot of time to waggle and avoid incoming fire.  Certainly not as much as for cruisers with gun ranges closer to 18+ km.  And at even shorter ranges, forget about it.  

 

 

Basically what happened for clan battles.

 

Can't do that for ranked though unless you made cruisers available for rent; too many people who "main" one ship type and one type only.

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19 hours ago, Erebthoron said:

First of all we had T8 ranked a few times before.

Second: it’s most of the time BB‘s and DD‘s 

Third: the higher you move, the more DD’s you will see. Was once called world of Bensons

Forth: if there is a cruiser ingame every DD in your team screams: take him out first

Fourth fixed: If there is a cruiser in game, every BB on the team will focus it for easy damage and the kill.

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1 hour ago, Shadeylark said:

Bbs to farm and tank damage, Dds to win matches.

Exactly.  DDs couldn't win the battles all by themselves, well, unless it was 100% DD teams.  Also, I tend towards believing that IJN DD's don't really fall into this equation.  They're just poorly suited to engaging and beating USN style DDs in a gun fight.  Oh, they can get lucky with their torps or maybe detonate a DD (that didn't have anti-det flags).  But they'd have to be really lucky to beat a USN style DD in a straight up gun fight between healthy DDs.  The USN style DD player would have to have really bad aim and not be very good at dodging some shots here and there, and the IJN torp boat DD would have to have almost spectacularly good aim and miss very few shots.  Honestly, this is why I'm really ambivalent about bringing any IJN torp boat DD into ranked, i.e. the inability to fight and win DD vs DD gun duels consistently.

Heck, I just got out of a battle in my Benson where I did 98k damage, got 4 kills (all 3 enemy DDs and a Tirpitz), 6 torp hits, :cap_rambo: and took 3 caps :Smile_hiding: on the Neighbors map (took B solo, then assisted on A, then retook B solo at the end of the game to assure the win in a super close fight).  Still a little jittery from that one. All hopped up on adrenaline. 

 

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sometimes easier to say class instead of type, since when it comes to video games people tend to think in terms of rpg-classes, i.e. the holy trinity of dps'r, healer, tank.  which, by the by, i strongly suspect is a big part of the reason people have a problem with the way types of ships are balanced in this game.  they expect destroyers, with their stealth and big alpha potential, to mimic the rogue playstyle of an mmorpg, and for bb's with their huge hp pools and heavy armor to mimic spank-n-tank playstyles.  people don't get that this game doesn't, and can't, function in the same way.

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I'm doing OK with the Kag in ranked. The BB play is so timid most of the time that is the reason for the loss, not all but most.

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21 hours ago, Madwolf05 said:

So far I've had 1 game with a majority of Cruisers, and the rest were back and forth between DDs and BBs.

Last season was the worst. Cruisers were incredibly lousy and meant nothing.

I just had my first game with mostly cruisers. I was treated to the other team getting 2 New Orleans, which, as a DD, made my life unpleasant. 

Considering how stressful Ranked is, I am even more annoyed that WG didn't fix the radar through islands issue. Get on that already!

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1 hour ago, guns_at_last_light said:

I just had my first game with mostly cruisers. I was treated to the other team getting 2 New Orleans, which, as a DD, made my life unpleasant. 

Considering how stressful Ranked is, I am even more annoyed that WG didn't fix the radar through islands issue. Get on that already!

When there are enemy Cruisers with Radar on the other team you must sit back and wait until they are spotted before moving in, or have a defense spot close by where you won't get lit and murdered horribly.

Radar is going to continue to go through islands as long as this is a video game, and we have so many other aspects of the game that defy reality.

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