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How much do we know about the French BBs?

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So the French BBs are in testing, so they'll be the next line... How much do we know about them? What are their strengths and weaknesses? German has the brawling, RN has the HE, whats Frances trademark BB trait?

 

Just curious if anyone knows

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What we know:

  • They're all in testing.
  • They were delayed to early 2018.
  • They feature a nerfed speed boost consumable as their gimmick.
  • The T10 is a crappy oversized Gascogne design.
  • They all have German style accuracy to make up for the number of guns per turret (4 guns on average)
  • Secondaries aren't anything amazing.
  • T8+ are rather vulnerable to IFHE guns due to near uniform 32mm of armor in many places.

All subject to change (I wish the T10 was changed).

 

Edited by YamatoA150

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T6-T8 (not sure about T9) are more or less the same with both main battery turrets to the front. If you have a Dunkerque you know what is waiting for you. If not: she is 30% off. A unique BB if you can take it to miss another BB with all 8 shells at 10km.

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27 minutes ago, MCCIV said:

So the French BBs are in testing, so they'll be the next line... How much do we know about them? What are their strengths and weaknesses? German has the brawling, RN has the HE, whats Frances trademark BB trait?

 

Just curious if anyone knows

They have extra scuttle [edited] valves and detonation charges in the bottom of the hull. Also you can transfer German captains into them at any time even while they are in battle.

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They're on the wiki: http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Ships_of_France

5 minutes ago, Erebthoron said:

T6-T8 (not sure about T9) are more or less the same with both main battery turrets to the front. If you have a Dunkerque you know what is waiting for you. If not: she is 30% off. A unique BB if you can take it to miss another BB with all 8 shells at 10km.

Not so, the T6 Normandie has A-P-Y turret configuration, the T7 Lyon has A-P-X-Y. Richelieu's the only ship with A-B turret arrangement, all forward.

Dunkerque is a lot of fun, but they didn't go with that approach for the main line.

My summary based on speculation and the wiki is -

  • T3 - who cares but it's Kawachi's gun layout
  • T4 - who cares but it's 10x 12in guns to the broadside with a slightly better arrangement than Kaiser - speed and armor unremarkable
  • T5 - Bretagne with 10x 13.4in guns, so roughly equivalent to Iron Duke and New York, still fairly slow at 21kt
  • T6 - Normandie with 12x 13.4in guns, in a A-P-Y layout which limits ahead firepower compared to New Mex, leaps from slow to an INSANE 29.5kts... wow guns are in terms of penetration bad, but 12 of them
  • T7 - Lyon with 16x 13.4in guns, - Normandie with an extra rear turret for the heaviest broadside... but individually anemic guns, stays pretty zoomy at 27kts, adds 12 barrels of 130mm secondaries and decent long-range AA DPS of 83.2
  • T8 - Riche--ehehhh-llliieeu! Woo. The quintessential French BB. Dunkerque with 15in guns, 32kts plus speed boost, very respectable armor, decent bofors AA on the top hull, slow ROF and questionable accuracy but all-forward = strong
  • T9 - Alsace with 3x4 15in guns, smallest guns at T9 but 12 of them instead of 8-9, fast, armored, basically Richelieu with an extra turret. Secondaries are 12 barrels of 100mm and 9 barrels of 152mm to a broadside, 7km base range - all HE (FdG has pen issues with 100mm but only has 7.6 base range) - could be pretty potent, still does 32kt
  • T10 - France with 2x4 430mm guns, big guns but joint fewest with Conq at T10 and in only 2 turrets. Bigger than GK/Monty's guns but doesn't overmatch like Yamato. In theory low firepower, however good secondaries, 30kt speed, decent armor, good AA with about as much long range DP AA as Montana

General trends of decent range but not great concealment (although France is only 0.2km behind Monty - they're generally a bit behind at high tiers, mixed lower) turning radii are a bit mixed too.

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K you are right. My fault, didn’t checked the latest dev stuff. Not sure why, since I play BB most of the time, but I‘m not interested in the French BB. I miss any historical connection with them beside: sunk in habour by the RN.

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7 minutes ago, Erebthoron said:

K you are right. My fault, didn’t checked the latest dev stuff. Not sure why, since I play BB most of the time, but I‘m not interested in the French BB. I miss any historical connection with them beside: sunk in habour by the RN.

There was a bizarre instance in WWII where Battleship Lorraine had to duel her sistership’s guns during Operation Overlord.

lossy-page1-1024px-WWII,_Europe,_Near_To

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6 minutes ago, _ECSO_Sgt_088 said:

French means faster in reverse....

 

Autoloader magazine like the French Tanks....

Just where exactly did the French get the reputation for retreating?  They got encircled in WWII, and it was the British who retreated.  If fact, the British ended up retreating from a lot of wars, the Revolutionary War springs immediately to mind, so how come we aren’t mocking the reverse speeds on British vehicals?  They’ve always got that island to run back to.

Edited by Sventex
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2 minutes ago, Sventex said:

Just where exactly did the French get the reputation for retreating? 

Because of idiots repeating it ad nauseum "lolololol french retreat I'm so witty and funny lololol". They just parrot old 'jokes' that were never funny and are even less so now after being so driven into the ground.

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4 minutes ago, Sventex said:

Just where exactly did the French get the reputation for retreating?  They got encircled in WWII, and it was the British who retreated.  If fact, the British ended up retreating from a lot of wars, the Revolutionary War springs immediately to mind, so how come we aren’t mocking the reverse speeds on British vehicals?  They’ve always got that island to run back to.

 

Whoa, easy there.  Don't want to upset a popular misconception, sir.

 

Also, the French Resistance was an absolutely phenomenal asset to the Allies.

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11 minutes ago, Business6 said:

the French Resistance was an absolutely phenomenal asset to the Allies.

Imagine how effective they could've been if they could've gotten along with eachother, too.

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18 minutes ago, Business6 said:

 

Whoa, easy there.  Don't want to upset a popular misconception, sir.

 

Also, the French Resistance was an absolutely phenomenal asset to the Allies.

Got another idea after I have read Max Hastings „The secret war“

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Someone (it may have been John Terraine or Gary Sheffield) once argued that what the French Army went through at Verdun made it completely disinterested in ever making another stand like that again; i.e. the fight which went out of the French generals in 1940 had in fact gone out of them when they were colonels and majors in 1916.

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2 hours ago, Lionel92 said:

Having a white flag to surrender in Battle

Large and small white flags. Small=we sorta surrender while we scuttle.

Big white flag= We really surrender, don't shoot, we have wine on board we were going to give the Germans!

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17 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Someone (it may have been John Terraine or Gary Sheffield) once argued that what the French Army went through at Verdun made it completely disinterested in ever making another stand like that again; i.e. the fight which went out of the French generals in 1940 had in fact gone out of them when they were colonels and majors in 1916.

I wonder why...

hD0ewQk.gif

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4 minutes ago, Sventex said:

I wonder why...

hD0ewQk.gif

Believe it or not, the Germans also were guilty of this criminally stupid behaviour, right to the end of the war. 

(What is the clip from?)

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12 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Believe it or not, the Germans also were guilty of this criminally stupid behaviour, right to the end of the war. 

(What is the clip from?)

A Very Long Engagement

9Qp2aby.gif

Edited by Sventex

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37 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Someone (it may have been John Terraine or Gary Sheffield) once argued that what the French Army went through at Verdun made it completely disinterested in ever making another stand like that again; i.e. the fight which went out of the French generals in 1940 had in fact gone out of them when they were colonels and majors in 1916.

The brother of my grandfather thought both hands in the air is their military salute.... K back to reality 

Most older sources try to simplify the reson for the French defeat. Their defensive thinking that came after the Great War came from the loses the had. But nonetheless there were mid ranking officers that didn’t understand why they didn’t invade 1939.

James Holland has a more modern approach to this in his book „The War in the West part 1“

The French army wasn’t really prepared for this kind of warfare. Beside some weakness in their leadership there communication lines were most of the time land based. They couldn’t react to the speed of the German attack. Refugees blocked the road, rumours were all around what is happening. The few cases they put up a resistance they were good. But you need to get an order in your lines. And it didn’t helped that they main part of the army was out of position against an enemy that concentrate his forces. The government cared more about protecting the citizens and to prevent a bloodshed. 

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1 hour ago, Sventex said:

Just where exactly did the French get the reputation for retreating?  They got encircled in WWII, and it was the British who retreated.  If fact, the British ended up retreating from a lot of wars, the Revolutionary War springs immediately to mind, so how come we aren’t mocking the reverse speeds on British vehicals?  They’ve always got that island to run back to.

I am not the person who will call French cowards.

 

But it probably comes from Gamelin and his ilk. They had a larger, more modern army. A better navy.  More tanks of superior quality. A huge line of defenses. They ended up crumpling, surrounded in Belgium, and outflanked. They didn’t fight for Paris like the Soviets were prepared to for Stalingrad, Leningrad, or Moscow. They declared it open. They refused to join with Britain despite Daladier’s support. They lasted for a shorter period than Poland despite having a far better army and not being invaded by the USSR.

 

They also sat and watched as Poland was invaded. The Sitzkriegs is one of the biggest lost opportunities in history.

 

Basically- they gained a horrid reputation because they repeatedly screwed up in one of the biggest conflicts in history, despite greats in their history like Napoleon. 

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3 minutes ago, Erebthoron said:

The brother of my grandfather thought both hands in the air is their military salute.... K back to reality 

Most older sources try to simplify the reson for the French defeat. Their defensive thinking that came after the Great War came from the loses the had. But nonetheless there were mid ranking officers that didn’t understand why they didn’t invade 1939.

James Holland has a more modern approach to this in his book „The War in the West part 1“

The French army wasn’t really prepared for this kind of warfare. Beside some weakness in their leadership there communication lines were most of the time land based. They couldn’t react to the speed of the German attack. Refugees blocked the road, rumours were all around what is happening. The few cases they put up a resistance they were good. But you need to get an order in your lines. And it didn’t helped that they main part of the army was out of position against an enemy that concentrate his forces. The government cared more about protecting the citizens and to prevent a bloodshed. 

You should read “France 1940” as well as “The German War”. Both go in-depth as to the magnitude of the French defeat, the unthinkability of it- and how it was neither the soldier nor the citizens fault, but rather the upper brass who was as a whole far older than any other in Europe.

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7 minutes ago, Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Chokai said:

I am not the person who will call French cowards.

 

But it probably comes from Gamelin and his ilk. They had a larger, more modern army. A better navy.  More tanks of superior quality. A huge line of defenses. They ended up crumpling, surrounded in Belgium, and outflanked. They didn’t fight for Paris like the Soviets were prepared to for Stalingrad, Leningrad, or Moscow. They declared it open. They refused to join with Britain despite Daladier’s support. They lasted for a shorter period than Poland despite having a far better army and not being invaded by the USSR.

 

They also sat and watched as Poland was invaded. The Sitzkriegs is one of the biggest lost opportunities in history.

 

Basically- they gained a horrid reputation because they repeatedly screwed up in one of the biggest conflicts in history, despite greats in their history like Napoleon. 

There wasn't much "retreating" to do when they were surrounded on all sides.

germaninvasionfrance1940map.jpg

Edited by Sventex

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