Flores class gunboats - the Terrible Twins

[JeeWeeJ]

Right! Time for a topic on a lesser known class of ships: the Flores class gunboats, built for and used by the Royal Netherlands Navy.

 

Flores class gunboats

 

HNLMS Flores and HNLMS Soemba were constructed in 1924 and 1925 by the Fijenoord shipyard in Rotterdam. Armed with three 5.9" (150mm) guns, they were intended to be used as patrol- and firesupport ships. A role they would excell in, and would ultimately be called "The Terrible Twins" by the British press.

 

Before the war

After being commissioned, both the Flores and the Soemba were sent to Sabang in the Dutch Indies (now Indonesia) for patrol duty. During the following years, the ships visited various ports like Singapore and Saigon. In 1937, the Flores intercepted a Japanese fishingboat which ignored orders to stop for inspection. The Flores fired a number of warning shots, which were again ignored. The next few salvo's permanetly stopped the vessel, killing two of the Japanese crew.

 

In 1938 both vessels attended the celebration of the 150th anniversary of Australia, after which they returned to patrol duty.

 

In December of 1939, Flores was sent back to the Netherlands due to the worsening situation in Europe, arriving february 3rd. A few months later, May 10th 1940, the Netherlands was invaded by the Germans.

 

During the war

HNLMS Flores

When the Germans invaded on may 10th 1940, Flores was standing by in the harbour of Vlissingen (also known as Flushing in English). That day, she was given orders to sail to Rotterdam to provide support, but that order was withdrawn later making Flores head back to Vlissingen. During the 14th of may, Flores was ordered to make way to the Oosterschelde to provide artillery support for friendly troops and to refuse the Germans the opportunity to cross the Oosterschelde deeper into Dutch territory. While the rest of the Netherlands surrendered on the 14th (after the bombing of Rotterdam, destroying most of the city) the province of Zeeland (where Flores was active) was still a battleground between allied forces (with Dutch, British an French forces), giving Flores the time needed to rendevous with other Dutch ships and head to Great Britain. During this voyage Flores was attacked by German aircraft multiple times, but suffered no damage.

 

During 1940 to 1943 Flores was used by the Royal Navy to guard the Thames estuary.

 

After which she was to join her sister Soemba off the coast of Sicily. (Her story is pretty much the same as Soemba's after this)

 

HNLMS Soemba

http://www.strijdbew...l/nl/soemba.jpg

Dutch Indies

The war for Soemba didn't start until the Japanese declaration of war on the Dutch Indies in December of 1941. This didn't change the duties much though, she was assigned to the Riouw archipelago for patrol duty and was moved to the Sunda strait the next month.

During the night of february the 24th Soemba was ordered to destroy the oil installations of Oosthaven (now Bandar Lampung), which she did from close range. At the 27th Soemba was attacked by two Japanese aircraft. No serious damage was inflicted, but the gunner of the 75mm AA gun W.G. van der Wel was seriously hit by Japanese machinegun fire. He refused to leave his post and kept the gun firing until the attack was over, after which he died from internal bleedings. (in 1961 a minesweeper was named after him)

 

Soemba remained here for another day, waiting to be released by the destroyer HNLMS Evertsen, which did not show up. Only later it was made clear that the Evertsen was attacked while enroute to the Soemba and was so heavily damaged that she had to be beached and was later destroyed by her own crew.

 

Later that day, the crew was informed by the commander that the ABDA fleet was more-or-less destroyed during the battle of the Java sea, pretty much dooming the Dutch Indies. The commander decided to wait no longer and set course for Colombo to rendevous with what was left of the Dutch Navy in the area.

 

Soemba then left for Bombay, where her 4 12.7mm AA guns were replaced with 6 20mm Oerlikon's and she recieved a new Mediterranian camouflage paintjob. During this refit, the crew was forced to sleep in tents as no military accomodations were available. This lasted until a crewmember got in touch with a British family which was willing to take in some Dutch crewmembers, lifting morale somewhat.

 

 

To the Med!

After the refit, Soemba was sent to the Strait of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf for ASW duty. Her time here was uneventful (except for a crewmember dying due to the heat) and in March of 1943, Soemba was ordered to join a large convoy heading for Alexandria.

 

From March to early July Soemba escorted convoys from Alexandria to Gibraltar and back, suffering no casualties except the ship's dog, which went overboard in a storm.

In july, Soemba was sent to Sicily to support the ongoing invasion there. She patrolled an area 3 miles out of the coast awaiting requests for artillery support. While on station a ship was spotted on the horizon...which turned out to be Soemba's sister: the Flores! After a brief exchange of communications, the Flores continued on to her designated area, but the knowledge of another Dutch ship being in the area raised morale considerably.

 

That afternoon an emergency request for artillery support was recieved, Germans tanks were headed for the beachhead and would ruin the invasion if not stopped. With the tanks on the hilly terrain clearly visible throug the targetting equipment Soemba opened fire with her main guns, stopping the German advance. Many requests for fire support were to follow, with Soemba operating unaided by other allied ships.

This lasted till the 5th of August, when Soemba came under attack from land based forces. While laying smoken and performing evasive maneuvres while trying to get out of range Soemba was hit multiple times. None were serious hits, except one...which hit the bridge, seriously injuring the captain. The steering equipment was disintegrated and the map cabinet was gone. Still, it could have been worse, as the shell missed the B turret by just a few feet.

 

Soemba raced towards the port of Augusta where the captain was taken ashore to be treated in hospital. He died while enroute in the ambulance.

Later it became known what fired on the Soemba: Tiger tanks with the dreaded 88mm guns.

 

Instead of proper repairs, Soemba was patched up and was back in action one week later, for as the former first officer (now acting captain) put it: "we've got a score to settle with the Germans". This time though, Soemba was accompanied by a British destroyer (name unknown), which was probably sent along to keep Soemba from getting close to the shore. But the Dutch, being stubborn folk, ignored the signals from the destroyer to keep distance and got a request for support. The target appeared to be an artillery train, and while Soemba spotted the train, it also spotted the Soemba. The result was an intense artillery duel in which the Soemba came out on top. Her captain was avenged.

 

For the rest of 1943 both Soemba and the Flores continued to provide artillery support in the Med, supporting the landings in Sicily and Italy.

 

The following article was published on August 7th, 1943:

Quote

A special correspondent in the Mediterranean emphases the part which ships of the Dutch Navy are playing in the operations off Sicily.

 

The First official announcement of their presence was contained in General Eisenhower's communiqué of July 10th. Then came the story of the Dutch gunboat, which silenced shore batteries during the landings. As the Allies disembarked in a small bay they found that certain shore guns had managed to get the range of the beach and were causing considerable trouble. The Dutch gunboat closed in to less than a mile off shore and put the batteries out of action with a few well-placed broadsides.

 

The short official information is amplified by the special correspondent who cables: "Squat, camouflaged fighting ships of the Royal Netherlands Navy are playing a considerable part in the operations off Sicily. Two gunboats in particular have been bombarding enemy gun positions and troop concentrations on the eastern beaches, non-stop day and night, since the start of the invasion.

 

"Like terriers chasing rats, they refuse to leave them alone. They pour in shells so fiercely and with such grim determination that it is no exaggeration to say that they steam up and down the coast leaving a long snaking trail of empty, cordite-blackened shell cases floating astern. They show complete disregard for personal danger and never miss an opportunity to bombard at close range."

 

The two gunboats' exploits made one British gunnery officer say: "It is fantastic how these little ships sail in to attack with the Netherlands Ensign flying cockily at the masthead. Their gunnery officer, dressed in khaki, unconcernedly stands on the bridge, calmly surveying the coastline.

 

"In the early stages of the campaign the Dutch gunboats took on eight strong Axis batteries on the top of a hill. The boats dashed in, and in an incredibly short while secured direct hits on three of the shore batteries. They killed the gun crews, and when our forward troops reached the position they found the five other batteries abandoned." At one stage of the land battle for the Catania plain the Germans, harassed and confused by the Navy' s persistent sea bombardment, brought up an enormous gun and started a terrific barrage, throwing up gigantic columns of water. The Dutch gunboats were completely outranged, but they overcame that by rushing in, firing salvos all the time, and then twisting and turning out again, only to repeat the manoeuvre.

 

Another British officer said: "These Dutchmen have the right fighting spirit. Nothing will stop them, and they won't cease firing. The only rest they had during the nights of unceasing bombardments was when they ran out of ammunition, and then they returned, reshelled and refuelled, and were off again. They will take on anything. Last Friday, when we knew them to be some distance away, they came rushing in at the sound of firing and went full speed ahead into the fray. Their shells roared overhead, straddling us. We could not make out where the firing came from until someone said 'It 's those damned Dutchmen again; you can't keep them out of anything!' And he was right.

D-Day

Soemba and Flores both headed to Portsmouth to prepare for D-Day. Both ships, having gone through a lot, were in desparate need of new barrels, but only 5 of these could be found (taken from the decomissioned light cruiser HNLMS Sumatra). This left Soemba with one gun short. However, it's was deemed important to the morale of the Dutch fighting forces that a Dutch ship would be at the front, so in the end even the Dutch and British admiralty were involved in the search for the last barrel.

 

Fun fact: to get a bit more attention to his telegrams, the British officer responsible for them decided to send his messages in limerick form:

The initial request from captain Nicholl:

Quote

A report has come in from the Soemba

That their salvoes go of like a Rhumba

Two guns, they sound fine,

But the third five point nine,

He am bust and refuse to go Boomba

The initial reaction from the Emergency Despair (repair) Section:

Quote

To find any yard for the Soemba

We've searched from the Clyde to the Hoomba

But we haven't got room

For van Tromp's ruddy broom

Much less for this useless old Loomba

And this went on to about ten messages, ultimately resulting in the Soemba getting her last gun fixed.

 

Both Flores and Soemba joined the allied fleet and provided support for the Juno (Flores) and Utah (Soemba) beaches.

 

Both ships survived the war with minimal casualties and both recieved a Koninklijke Vermelding bij Dagorder (Royal Mention by Order of the Day).

 

Flores was decommissioned on september 16th, 1968

Soemba was decommissioned on january 1st, 1956

 

Specs

Type:

Gunboat

Displacement:

1,457 long tons (1,480 t) standard

1,793 long tons (1,822 t) full load

Length:

75.6 m (248 ft 0 in)

Beam:

11.5 m (37 ft 9 in)

Draught:

3.6 m (11 ft 10 in)

Installed power:

2,000 shp (1,500 kW)

4 Yarrow boilers

Propulsion:

2 shafts, 2 Triple-expansion steam engines

Speed:

15 knots (28 km/h; 17 mph)

Complement:

145

Armament:

As built:

3 × 5.9 in (150 mm) No. 7 guns

1 × 75 mm gun

4 × .50 Browning machine guns

Added to Flores:

1 × single 40 mm "pom-pom"

4 × 20 mm Hotchkiss

8 × .303 machine guns

Added to Soemba:

6 × Oerlikon 20 mm cannon

Armour:

Bridge: 50 mm (2.0 in)

Deck: 25–50 mm (0.98–2.0 in)

Ammunition hoists: 25 mm (0.98 in)

Gun shields: 14–80 mm (0.55–3.1 in)

 

Sources

Drie Oorlogsjaren a/b Hrms “Soemba” December 1941-Augustus 1944 (DUTCH)

Wikipedia

Navypedia

Netherlandsnavy.nl

[Ariecho]

Wow! (+1)

 

Quote

After being commissioned, both the Flores and the Soemba were sent to Sabang in the Dutch Indies (now Indonesia) for patrol duty. During the following years, the ships visited various ports like Singapore and Saigon. In 1937, the Flores intercepted a Japanese fishingboat which ignored orders to stop for inspection. The Flores fired a number of warning shots, which were again ignored. The next few salvo's permanetly stopped the vessel, killing two of the Japanese crew.

What did they find in the fishing boat?

[Flakstorm_]

Ariecho, on 04 December 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

Wow! (+1)



What did they find in the fishing boat?

:P nice...

[anonym_auUiRfWCi1jI]

Nice OP and references.  Thanks.

[JeeWeeJ]

Ariecho, on 04 December 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

Wow! (+1)



What did they find in the fishing boat?

Unknown. One could speculate that they were Japanese spies...or just vey stubborn fishermen who were in the wrong area. All my sources say is that they sank the boat after multiple warnings and warning shots.

[nixxxie]

JeeWeeJ, on 03 December 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

Later it became known what fired on the Soemba: Tiger tanks with the dreaded 88mm guns.

That's  funny to read, since it could provide counter fire with 150mm guns...Can you post more info on main artillery?


All that destroyer/gunboat/other naming is a strange mess. Although these ships were too slow for a proper fleet destroyer, they could very well fit as an escort destroyer. Especially when refurbishing and changing armament is not a big deal if you have the hull (so you can fit AAA and depth charges).

Personally, it's hard for me to call any ship over 1000t after ww1 a gunboat.

[JeeWeeJ]

nixxxie, on 04 December 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

That's  funny to read, since it could provide counter fire with 150mm guns...Can you post more info on main artillery?


All that destroyer/gunboat/other naming is a strange mess. Although these ships were too slow for a proper fleet destroyer, they could very well fit as an escort destroyer. Especially when refurbishing and changing armament is not a big deal if you have the hull (so you can fit AAA and depth charges).

Personally, it's hard for me to call any ship over 1000t after ww1 a gunboat.

Well, as far as my sources go it wasn't so much the problem of not having the guns to counter those tigers (as proven earlier when Soemba engaged an entire tank battalion), but it had more to do with that they were taking damage (and these gunboats don't have a whole lot of armour) and that they were unable to determine where the shots were coming from while laying smoke and performing evasive maneuvres.

And please note that they were NOT destroyers and were initially not intended for ASW duty (even though fitted with ASDIC). And while the Royal Netherlands Navy has a tradition of giving ships a lower class than they actually are (just like the current Zeven Provinciën class destroyers are called frigates here), these ships were intended for patrol duty in the Dutch Indies and for artillery support (as shown by the low max speed of 15 knots), for proper ASW duty the RNLN had destroyers like the Admiralen and the newer Gerard Callenburgh class destroyers (which were still under construction when the war broke out).

The guns were so called 5.9" No. 7 guns, or 5.9"/50. Built by Krupp and Bofors (under license), they were used on the Flores class gunboats, the Java class light cruisers and HNLMS Johan Maurits van Nassau (an improved Flores class gunboat)

[Eyeless_Camper]

Great read, had really fun reading it at work  :Smile_great:

[nixxxie]

L50, that's a mighty gun for that caliber. But i wouldn't expect nothing less from Bofors ;) .

I agree about armor, but please note that no ship with similar displacement had armor to withstand 88L56 (let alone heavier naval guns) - "regular" destroyers having even thinner. It is a general rule of that time: heavy guns and virtually no armor to counter similar enemy's guns.

 

I noted their intended duty. They were "fat" too (short and wider than typical destroyer), thus their speed. But history verified that and majority of destroyers were assigned to convoy duty - typical convoy speed was 8knots. And after refurb these two would be good enough for convoys.

I'm not so strict in classifications. Modern destroyers and frigates grown like five times comparing to ww2 ones. So, it's only naming convention.

I could definitely see these PTs in WoWs destroyers tree. They won't be very successfull with torpedos (if equipped) due to their speed, but they have nice guns :) (even if in small number).

 

I would definitely like to see as many "weirdos" as possible in WoWs. I don't see a need to balance everything, i like the idea of some ships being inferior (even without de-tiering them) and such ships will be interesting (and may result in some interesting strategies applied to them, too).

Maybe we should work harder on that fanmade "European" tree :) ?

[JeeWeeJ]

Actually, i already included the Flores class as a tier 1 in my multinational tree (even though i still need to update it!). It might not have as much guns as the other tier 1's, but you could compensate for that with higher accuracy.

 

Plenty of small ships to choose from for that tree. :Smile_smile:

[nixxxie]

Have you seen my post on Grom and Gryf?

 

 

What about Van Kingsbergen? http://www.netherlan...Vkinsbergen.htm

That's another formally-non-destroyer interesting weido :) .

 

I don't think you need to buff accuracy or anything - why all ships need to be similarly powerful :) ? That's the main problem with tiers, everyone is obsessed with them and you cannot tier ships like tanks/planes.

i will probably make another thread on that :\ ...

[JeeWeeJ]

Yup, seen them! Like i said, i still need to update that tree...

[nixxxie]

I still need to find you a CV for that tree...

And that is most probably impossible.

[Ariecho]

JeeWeeJ, on 04 December 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

Unknown. One could speculate that they were Japanese spies...or just vey stubborn fishermen who were in the wrong area. All my sources say is that they sank the boat after multiple warnings and warning shots.

I'm sure it was the catnip I never received ...  :Smile_izmena:   Japanese catnip  :Smile_smile:   If they ever are in-game, these two ships are now on my dog poop list, right after the Hood.  :Smile_playing:

More seriously though, it was a really interesting story!

[nixxxie]

It appears that it's not that bad. I found you some, ekhem, CVs:

 

http://en.wikipedia...._carrier_Dédalo

http://en.wikipedia....MS_Dristigheten

http://en.wikipedia...._Gotland_(1933)

http://en.wikipedia....ane_tender_Zmaj

[JeeWeeJ]

Ariecho, on 04 December 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

I'm sure it was the catnip I never received ...  :Smile_izmena:   Japanese catnip  :Smile_smile:

ALL LIES! You're talking about the freighter named "Hello Kitty", she was DEFINITELY not sunk by HNLMS De Ruyter off the coast of Java.. Which definitely did not put a lot of 6" HE rounds in her, NOT causing fire to break out which DIDN'T result in a GLORIOUS explosion.

So no, i have no idea what you're talking about Ari! :Smile_trollface: