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Peregrinas

Why does Lo Yang get German hydro but Z-23 doesn't?

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Important edit: after visiting the wiki (http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Consumables#Hydroacoustic_Search), Lo Yang actually does not get German hydro. Hipper's hydro has slightly longer range by about 0.2km and a longer duration by about 30 seconds. I stand corrected my friends.

 

It's a very simple, yet very frustrating question. A non-German DD gets German hydro while the German DD doesn't. Because of this reason I can't bring my beloved Z-23 into ranked because there's always at least 1 Lo Yang on either team. Lo Yang is hands down better because it gets the combination of higher DPM and longer range on the hydro. The only other tier 8 DD that I have with tons of experience is Benson, but again, Lo Yang is hands down better than Benson. 

Either Z-23 (and by default Z-46) needs German hydro, or Lo Yang needs a change to its hydro, such as reducing it to a standard hydro but with a shorter cooldown (so that this isn't a direct nerf but rather just a swap of ship parameters).

I tried Amagi/Tirpitz, but after going 1-4, I realize that I don't want to leave the most important job in ranked to random players: playing a DD, capping points, and killing enemy DDs. 4 out of 6 of my rank 1's were from DDs: twice with Mahan/Benson, once with Blyskawica, and once with Gaede.

Edited by Peregrinas

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Agreed, I'd love to play Atago, but I'm sticking with DD's. Currently 2-3 with Kagero, and I want to run Z23, but as you said, Lo Yang is the better option. I haven't tried Kidd yet, but I did gun one down with my IJN pewpews. I think I may switch to Lo Yang now, just for a change of pace, but I can't decide which torps to use.

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31 minutes ago, Peregrinas said:

It's a very simple, yet very frustrating question. A non-German DD gets German hydro while the German DD doesn't. Because of this reason I can't bring my beloved Z-23 into ranked because there's always at least 1 Lo Yang on either team. Lo Yang is hands down better because it gets the combination of higher DPM and longer range on the hydro. The only other tier 8 DD that I have with tons of experience is Benson, but again, Lo Yang is hands down better than Benson. 

Either Z-23 (and by default Z-46) needs German hydro, or Lo Yang needs a change to its hydro, such as reducing it to a standard hydro but with a shorter cooldown (so that this isn't a direct nerf but rather just a swap of ship parameters).

I tried Amagi/Tirpitz, but after going 1-4, I realize that I don't want to leave the most important job in ranked to random players: playing a DD, capping points, and killing enemy DDs. 4 out of 6 of my rank 1's were from DDs: twice with Mahan/Benson, once with Blyskawica, and once with Gaede.

I can already tell you now, that the Lo Yang won't be tweaked in terms of its hydro. It wouldn't be a swap of parameters, it would be nerf. The Hydro that it has is one of the reasons why the Lo Yang is unique and as deadly as it is. Lo Yang is not hands down better than a Benson. I've seen many Benson players beat out Lo Yang players. It's the captain that makes the difference.

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9 minutes ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

Agreed, I'd love to play Atago, but I'm sticking with DD's. Currently 2-3 with Kagero, and I want to run Z23, but as you said, Lo Yang is the better option. I haven't tried Kidd yet, but I did gun one down with my IJN pewpews. I think I may switch to Lo Yang now, just for a change of pace, but I can't decide which torps to use.

I wish I had the Lo Yang as a choice; I’ll probably end up trying the Z-23 anyways since the German DDs are my baes.

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1 minute ago, Panic512 said:

I can already tell you now, that the Lo Yang won't be tweaked in terms of its hydro. It wouldn't be a swap of parameters, it would be nerf. The Hydro that it has is one of the reasons why the Lo Yang is unique and as deadly as it is. Lo Yang is not hands down better than a Benson. I've seen many Benson players beat out Lo Yang players. It's the captain that makes the difference.

All that a Lo Yang has to do is smoke, pop hydro, and the Benson’s dead. Seeing without being seen is huge.

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37 minutes ago, Peregrinas said:

I wish I had the Lo Yang as a choice; I’ll probably end up trying the Z-23 anyways since the German DDs are my baes.

I'm actually going to take Z23 out next. I switched up the skills so that the torps reload in 81 seconds, and I'm using the 150mm guns(I dont hide in smoke unless I have to), so, I'll see if that shakes things up. I'm 2-3 with Kagero, 1-0 with Akizuki, and 0-1 with Lo Yang, so now I'll try something different. If this doesn't get my first win streak of the day, I'll switch again. I'll buy back Benson if I have to. Many choices, I have.

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My only complaint, Mogami has no radar. Is be crushing tin cans left and right.

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12 minutes ago, IronWolfV said:

My only complaint, Mogami has no radar. Is be crushing tin cans left and right.

I've seen 1 Mogami, and it got wrecked. Atago hasn't done well in my rounds, either, nor have radar cruisers. Cruisers in my rounds haven't done well, period.

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DDs get cap XP, so obviously contesting caps is more influential to XP earned

cruisers generally have a hard time capping

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1 hour ago, Peregrinas said:

 Lo Yang is hands down better because it gets the combination of higher DPM and longer range on the hydro.

Don't forget the Lo Yang also has better detection and longer lasting smokes....

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1 hour ago, Peregrinas said:

All that a Lo Yang has to do is smoke, pop hydro, and the Benson’s dead. Seeing without being seen is huge.

Yea if the Benson captain is dumb enough to pop his smoke and sit in it under 5.4 km. I would launch torps and turn away and got outside of his hydro and detect range.

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For what the Z-23 lacks in camp contesting abilities. It makes up for in Torpedo strength.. 

 

However I would like to see the hydro on 46 and 23 buffed. 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

I've seen 1 Mogami, and it got wrecked. Atago hasn't done well in my rounds, either, nor have radar cruisers. Cruisers in my rounds haven't done well, period.

Lots of BBs around in the battles I've fought thus far.  The problem I see with cruisers is that for them to have a chance of surviving, they may need to snipe at extreme range.  But if they do that, they essentially make their radar (if they have it, that is) useless.  And to make their radar useful, they have to move rather close to the cap which in turn makes them much easier targets.  About the only thing they can conceivably do it to try to find an island close to the cap that can fully cover them, and hide there while they radar the area.  And accept that that's the price they're going to pay to use their radar.  But a lot of players just won't be able to accept hiding and will try to peek out to take a shot or two, and when they're spotted, they risk taking heavy damage or outright deletion.

 

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3 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

For what the Z-23 lacks in camp contesting abilities. It makes up for in Torpedo strength.. 

 

However I would like to see the hydro on 46 and 23 buffed. 

 

 

 

No, the hydro range doesn't need a buff

Z-23 needs to get Z-46's concealment

Z-52 needs to get Z-23's concealment

Z-46 needs to get Z-52's concealment

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1 hour ago, Peregrinas said:

All that a Lo Yang has to do is smoke, pop hydro, and the Benson’s dead. Seeing without being seen is huge.

Hey Pere, I just ran Z23, and it went really, really well. Just a heads up.

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8 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

For what the Z-23 lacks in camp contesting abilities. It makes up for in Torpedo strength.. 

However I would like to see the hydro on 46 and 23 buffed. 

 

I think that the problem when it comes to the choice of any DD and torpedoes comes down to are torpedoes so useful that it's worth bringing <whatever> class DD into Ranked Battles.  Or are strong cap-contesting, smoke laying DDs more valuable?  I think that this is why the Benson is so popular here because it is a very strong cap contester while bringing useful torpedoes.  I'm just not sure that DDs that lean more towards being torp boats can be reliable performers in Ranked Battles.

 

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12 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Lots of BBs around in the battles I've fought thus far.  The problem I see with cruisers is that for them to have a chance of surviving, they may need to snipe at extreme range.  But if they do that, they essentially make their radar (if they have it, that is) useless.  And to make their radar useful, they have to move rather close to the cap which in turn makes them much easier targets.  About the only thing they can conceivably do it to try to find an island close to the cap that can fully cover them, and hide there while they radar the area.  And accept that that's the price they're going to pay to use their radar.  But a lot of players just won't be able to accept hiding and will try to peek out to take a shot or two, and when they're spotted, they risk taking heavy damage or outright deletion.

 

Radar cruiser need to know the map and where they can sit for spotting with radar without sinking. They need to know the map very well, and if they don't they shouldn't be in a cruiser in the 1st place. They also need DD support for smoke, if their DD runs off from the fleet and plays his own game then he should be in random or co-op. DD's use torps in competitive modes for area denial and they smoke their radar cruiser when needed.

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1 hour ago, Panic512 said:

I can already tell you now, that the Lo Yang won't be tweaked in terms of its hydro. It wouldn't be a swap of parameters, it would be nerf. The Hydro that it has is one of the reasons why the Lo Yang is unique and as deadly as it is. Lo Yang is not hands down better than a Benson. I've seen many Benson players beat out Lo Yang players. It's the captain that makes the difference.

Uh... Yes, when one ship is captained by a unicum and the other by someone not as good, the unicum stands a better chance of winning regardless of ship because they understand the engagements.

But when one of those good captains comes in and tells you that the engagements and potential of Lo Yang are far better than that of Benson, the response isn't to bring up that it's the captain that matters.

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1 hour ago, Alien_Observer said:

I have been doing well in the Charles Martel. Gotta love that speed.

This for me as well. That and great ap

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49 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Why are we complaining about Lo Yang having it's Hydro when Z-23 at Tier VIII is doing better than her?

The potatoes that got it as a gift or purchased it most likely

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28 minutes ago, ENxRagexD said:

The potatoes that got it as a gift or purchased it most likely

And Z-23 doesn't get its share of potatoes?

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17 hours ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

I've seen 1 Mogami, and it got wrecked. Atago hasn't done well in my rounds, either, nor have radar cruisers. Cruisers in my rounds haven't done well, period.

Yup. In five games so far not a single cruiser has finished. And they ain't doing well, mostly. After watching them get wrecked, I've decided to give them a pass and stick to DDs and BBs. Ranges are simply too short to make smoke cruisers very effective, and Atago and Mogami are just floating citadels. 

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"Why does Lo Yang get German hydro?"

Probably because it's a piece of crap C hull Benson that costs real money without it.

Edited by goldeagle1123

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