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dmckay

Darkest Hour. Film. Churchill.

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Just saw the trailer on this movie, I want to see this. It's about Churchill, the appeasers of Hitler, and the early WWII era. Some in England wanted to cut a deal with Hitler, let him do to Europe whatever he wanted, if he would just leave England alone. Churchill vehemently opposed this with all his might and will and after the fall of France in 1940 England stood alone for almost a year....Churchill was then prime minister and defiant. "We will never surrender" .  I know for some Churchill is a somewhat controversial figure but he stood his ground against utter barbarism. This film is being praised. Looks good. 

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Gary Oldman is getting high marks for his performance...  It's also another look at the Dunkirk Operation, from the POV of high command..  Can't wait to see it.

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I've actually seen it already. (happen to know people associated with the Churchill biography, so got to see a special screening). It's an excellent movie (don't worry, no spoilers), and very well done. It concentrates mostly on the politics, but is a fascinating portrayal of many figures, Churchill, his wife Clementine, the King, and the opposition politicians. While I think it takes some liberties with certain portrayals, Churchill is done very well, and accurately. Highly recommended.

 

I should warn you, to me, the portrayal of Churchill against the British establishment is very similar to a current day American political situation. While I don't think this is intentional (the film people refused to discuss it with us), the parallels between two colorful leaders trying to get their establishment politicians to act in accord with the people are definitely there. All I'm saying is you've been warned.

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22 minutes ago, dmckay said:

Just saw the trailer on this movie, I want to see this. It's about Churchill, the appeasers of Hitler, and the early WWII era. Some in England wanted to cut a deal with Hitler, let him do to Europe whatever he wanted, if he would just leave England alone. Churchill vehemently opposed this with all his might and will and after the fall of France in 1940 England stood alone for almost a year....Churchill was then prime minister and defiant. "We will never surrender" .  I know for some Churchill is a somewhat controversial figure but he stood his ground against utter barbarism. This film is being praised. Looks good. 

All great leaders are controversial.

The Greatest poker hand ever played. The British did not have the forces to stop a landing but the speech convinced the Germans to hold off and go with the air battle.

 

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21 minutes ago, AJTP89 said:

I've actually seen it already. (happen to know people associated with the Churchill biography, so got to see a special screening). It's an excellent movie (don't worry, no spoilers), and very well done. It concentrates mostly on the politics, but is a fascinating portrayal of many figures, Churchill, his wife Clementine, the King, and the opposition politicians. While I think it takes some liberties with certain portrayals, Churchill is done very well, and accurately. Highly recommended.

 

I should warn you, to me, the portrayal of Churchill against the British establishment is very similar to a current day American political situation. While I don't think this is intentional (the film people refused to discuss it with us), the parallels between two colorful leaders trying to get their establishment politicians to act in accord with the people are definitely there. All I'm saying is you've been warned.

Tks.  Excellent mini-review by you.  I am aware that there is some controversy in regard to the comparisons with the political situation today but thanks for the heads up! 

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39 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

All great leaders are controversial.

The Greatest poker hand ever played. The British did not have the forces to stop a landing but the speech convinced the Germans to hold off and go with the air battle.

 

Great speech by Churchill. At the end when he makes reference to the "New World" finally coming to help he was sending a message to the United States. 

"You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing, after they've tried everything else"  Winston Churchill

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile...hoping it will eat him last"  Winston Churchill

Edited by dmckay

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AFAIK, Nazi Germany even looked up to the UK and wanted to form a pact with them.

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1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

AFAIK, Nazi Germany even looked up to the UK and wanted to form a pact with them.

Hitler had great respect for what the UK did with their historical empire reaching around the world.

 

As for the lead up to the war in Europe it looks fascinating and terrifying.  Terrifying because today we know what's about to come down around the world.  Fascinating in seeing the appeasement process and peace at all costs, even to the point of throwing some countries under the bus, losing their sovereignty so that one's own country can avoid the war.  Reading about how other powers were trying to persuade a nation to accept German dominance so they can avoid conflict themselves.  It sounds unfair.  It sounds absolutely ridiculous.  Then you have to think about it... These guys are just about 20 years since the end of WWI with the unholy amount of deaths for all involved, the better part of a generation killed off.  All these leaders were young men or teenagers when WWI was happening.  We like to point at the appeasers for enabling the war to come, but from their POV, they don't want a repeat of WWI.

 

The tragic part is the appeasement only showed the weakness Hitler perceived and made him bolder.

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14 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

 

Well said. It's always vital to look at history from the perspective of those at that time. Today it's very easy to look at it through the lense of our present age which can distort how things were at the time the events happened.

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3 hours ago, dmckay said:

Great speech by Churchill. At the end when he makes reference to the "New World" finally coming to help he was sending a message to the United States. 

"You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing, after they've tried everything else"  Winston Churchill

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile...hoping it will eat him last"  Winston Churchill

Did you know that after Chamberlain was booted and Churchill took over that Chamberlain became one of his most ardent supporters.

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32 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

Did you know that after Chamberlain was booted and Churchill took over that Chamberlain became one of his most ardent supporters.

Yes!  To a degree Chamberlain has, to some extent, been given a bad rap. Partly he, like so many others in the 1930's simply could not believe that there was a guy out there who after 10,000,000 deaths in WWI (the worst war in history) was actually serious about repeating that only 20 years after it ended. He could not grasp the corporal meant every word of what he threatened.  That is somewhat understandable. Churchill did grasp it as early as the 1920's. Saw Hitler as a serious threat early on. Chamberlain got suckered by Hitler at Munich. He did wake up after he realized Hitler did not mean a damn word of what he had promised after he grabbed ALL of Czechoslovakia....not just the Sudetenland. Actually Churchill later in life defended Chamberlain in his memoirs. He did indeed like him.... it was just that he felt him naive about Hitler after Hitler got into power.  But Churchill was forgiving, to a degree, and understood Chamberlain was trying his best to avert another horror like WWI....just did not work.

Tks. That era fascinates me. Lessons to be learned. For instance is Kim Jong bluffing or is he the real deal?

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Hitler had great respect for what the UK did with their historical empire reaching around the world.

 

As for the lead up to the war in Europe it looks fascinating and terrifying.  Terrifying because today we know what's about to come down around the world.  Fascinating in seeing the appeasement process and peace at all costs, even to the point of throwing some countries under the bus, losing their sovereignty so that one's own country can avoid the war.  Reading about how other powers were trying to persuade a nation to accept German dominance so they can avoid conflict themselves.  It sounds unfair.  It sounds absolutely ridiculous.  Then you have to think about it... These guys are just about 20 years since the end of WWI with the unholy amount of deaths for all involved, the better part of a generation killed off.  All these leaders were young men or teenagers when WWI was happening.  We like to point at the appeasers for enabling the war to come, but from their POV, they don't want a repeat of WWI.

 

The tragic part is the appeasement only showed the weakness Hitler perceived and made him bolder.

Well said and very insightful. 

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22 minutes ago, dmckay said:

 

Tks. That era fascinates me. Lessons to be learned. For instance is Kim Jong bluffing or is he the real deal?

My feeling is almost everything he says and does is about staying in power. Oh he does have the ability to make nuclear weapons but that has to be limited and I would hope that a subtle back channel message has been sent to them that any use of them will be their last.

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43 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

My feeling is almost everything he says and does is about staying in power. Oh he does have the ability to make nuclear weapons but that has to be limited and I would hope that a subtle back channel message has been sent to them that any use of them will be their last.

Staying in power is indeed IMO a big part of it. O ya, he has got the message for sure. The Chinese have stated that if he would do something crazy FIRST they will not support him. Putin is on alert. Our military has him surrounded and for sure got nuke subs off his coast if needed.....not to mention all the other stuff we got ready if needed. He is toast real fast if he tries anything crazy but is he rational or crazy? That's the issue. This situation has to be defused or he will eventually have enough stuff to be in a much stronger position.  Eventually. 

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1 hour ago, dmckay said:

Staying in power is indeed IMO a big part of it. O ya, he has got the message for sure. The Chinese have stated that if he would do something crazy FIRST they will not support him. Putin is on alert. Our military has him surrounded and for sure got nuke subs off his coast if needed.....not to mention all the other stuff we got ready if needed. He is toast real fast if he tries anything crazy but is he rational or crazy? That's the issue. This situation has to be defused or he will eventually have enough stuff to be in a much stronger position.  Eventually. 

Venezuela has been going down a similar path for a long time but without building nukes.

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