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leklan

Manual Fire for Secondaries should be like Manual fire for AA

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I don't know if Manual Secondaries used to fire on the opposite side but with the less accuracy in the past, so feel free to correct me if I am wrong. But it frustrates me that even though my secondaries on the side not manually targeting a target, aren't firing without the bonus of manual fire at targets in range. Manual AA keeps the AA active, and you only gain the bonus when you Ctrl click a target. I feel like I am losing out on my full capacity with my secondary build. Because I don't know about you guys but things can get hectic and you forget sometimes to manually target a dd near you. If my guns were still allowed to fire just without the manual bonus, till I manually target it of course, just like the AA it just makes more sense, and might even make me go "wait, what are my guns firing at?".

I just don't know why they wouldn't do it like that, because any captain wouldn't want their guns just sitting there when they have a chance to do some damage. I just feel it would be a nice change, and would make me feel like my secondary build was more proactive. Let my know what you guys think.

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It's to keep it from being an OP skill. If you dont like the trade off, dont take it and put those 4 points into something that you feel gives more utility like fire prevention.

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10 minutes ago, ValkyrWarframe said:

Um, it's supposed to be a trade-off with secondaries: more accuracy for limited targeting.

Except it costs FOUR CAPTIAN SKILL POINTS. 

For something THAT expensive I am damm well entitled to expect a straight up buff.

The only other skill like this is torpedo acceleration and it too is generally rejected by players as being not worth the skill points. 

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3 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Except it costs FOUR CAPTIAN SKILL POINTS. 

For something THAT expensive I am damm well entitled to expect a straight up buff.

The only other skill like this is torpedo acceleration and it too is generally rejected by players as being not worth the skill points. 

 

This as far as i'm concerned. Given how rare being engaged on two sides is there's just no reason for it to have any form of downside. Secondaries are cool and all that, but severely overestimated IMO. Only Bis/Tirp have good enough secondaries relative to their tier to be completely amazing with them.

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That arrangement also keeps you from accidentally hitting allies with your secondaries.  IT used to happen to me once in a while.

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Frankly I wish they would just buff secondary accuracy across the board because right now they cant hit a battleship at close range within the first 4 or 5 full salvos.

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I'm actually inclined to agree with the OP on this given that yeah, manual AA can make AA pretty damn OP, AS is an absolute must for a CV because otherwise you are near guaranteed to lose the air fight, Forget the name but reduce fires to 3 AND reduce fire chance, better concealment with no penalty that can make some cruiser able to stealth torp like a DD, and make it that a DD can take that trade off in torp range for torp speed and still never be seen, a skill with no counter or drawback that assures you know what direction you needs go to find that last enemy, AFT increase secondary and AA range, IFHE that has a slight drawback, for some ships less than it used to, most of the other tier 4 skills have little or no counter or trade off beyond costing 4 points. And the accuracy buff it affords is only truly noticeable tier 8+ most of the time. And given how sketchy it is for secondaries to hit at times anyway, I really don't see the harm that one side that has a target selected is more accurate and maybe dealing real damage while the other is like a battalion of storm troopers trying to hit a main cast member in the original trilogy firing at what ever happens to get in range and is spotted.

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I'd love for Manual Secondaries to work like Manual AA; accurate only on the side focusing a specific target, and wild stormtrooper spamming at the next nearest thing on the other side. It would help a lot when diving into a 3v1 battle while the rest of the team camps C or D.

There's a certain thrill in just diving in on a losing battle and seeing how many you can try and take out, all guns blazing away on both sides. It's fun whenever an enemy panics at a bullrushing Amagi or Tirpitz (just wait until I have Richelieu and Jean Bart; I'll be bullrushing harder and faster).

Edited by YamatoA150
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59 minutes ago, JunkwaffelXXI said:

That arrangement also keeps you from accidentally hitting allies with your secondaries.  IT used to happen to me once in a while.

They fixed that a while back, secondaries will no longer shoot if there's the possibility of hitting an ally.

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1 hour ago, JunkwaffelXXI said:

That arrangement also keeps you from accidentally hitting allies with your secondaries.  IT used to happen to me once in a while.

 

29 minutes ago, Carl said:

They fixed that a while back, secondaries will no longer shoot if there's the possibility of hitting an ally.

 

Also, if they still manage to hit an ally, they do no damage and won't start a fire.

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+1, they should fire even when not focusing fire, and provide a bonus when focused... any reason for a whole side of secondaries NOT to shoot with this skill? 

Agree with the idea, the skill shoould behave like the manual AA

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3 hours ago, ValkyrWarframe said:

Um, it's supposed to be a trade-off with secondaries: more accuracy for limited targeting.

 

However the biggest trade off is that your secondaries don't open fire automatically, which is very important to think about. for instance there is the Battle Awareness to think about. Your secondaries open fire at objects within their range, very often alerting you to a threat that you have not seen. Then the deterrent factor comes along. non manual shoots at both sides of the ship if you concentrate on the one side or other you leave one side of your ship unprotected. You can also still concentrate your fire to a lesser degree at a target of choice, while still maintaining full protection from all threats within each guns range.

The guns should open fire at all targets and act like automatic until you concentrate them on a target, at which time they only fire at that target until it is dead or you manually switch it to another target. You have to give up too much to use that captains perk if you ask me.

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4 hours ago, HazardDrake said:

Except it costs FOUR CAPTIAN SKILL POINTS. 

For something THAT expensive I am damm well entitled to expect a straight up buff.

The only other skill like this is torpedo acceleration and it too is generally rejected by players as being not worth the skill points. 

Looks at IFHE

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't IFHE a perk that is generally considered as insanely strong, despite the reduction of Fire Chance?

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7 hours ago, SireneRacker said:

Looks at IFHE

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't IFHE a perk that is generally considered as insanely strong, despite the reduction of Fire Chance?

Only on some ships and only because the nerf is so small in relation to the buff. 

 

Imagine if IFHE gave +30% pen and took the fire chance to 0%. Then it would be like MS. How many people would take it?

 

If MS was -60% dispersion on selected targets and +5% on non selected targets then it would be more like IFHE. 

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5 hours ago, HazardDrake said:

Only on some ships and only because the nerf is so small in relation to the buff. 

 

Imagine if IFHE gave +30% pen and took the fire chance to 0%. Then it would be like MS. How many people would take it?

 

If MS was -60% dispersion on selected targets and +5% on non selected targets then it would be more like IFHE. 

Is IFHE a straight up buff to your ship? No.

 

And funny enough that you are trying to draw a line between IFHE, yet you compared manual Secondaries to Torpedo Acceleration, stating that it is "The only other skill like this" :cap_hmm:

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