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Sweetsie

Duca or De Grasse?

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With the doubloon sale, might as well pick one up, but which? they both seems to have similar win rates, similar average damage...the De Grasse is more expensive, but not much....any feelings one way or another? 

If you have a minute please feel free to throw your .02        TY in advance.

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1 minute ago, Sweetsie said:

With the doubloon sale, might as well pick one up, but which? they both seems to have similar win rates, similar average damage...the De Grasse is more expensive, but not much....any feelings one way or another? 

If you have a minute please feel free to throw your .02        TY in advance.

Duca is amazing.

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Get both.  D’Aosta is a gas to play, win or lose.  I am getting DeGrasse tonight, been waiting for a long time.  Tier 6 cruisers are a lot of fun and necessary basic training for the follow on tiers.  

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They're both fine choices. The DeGrasse is very well balanced, haven't played the Costa Concordia but I hear good things

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Duca is fun but it has a more limited playstyle. It's really good at scouting and chasing down DDs (and some of the lighter CLs). It really doesn't hit hard enough against bigger cruisers or BBs.  De Grasse is like 3/4 of a Cleveland with less AA but with torpedoes.  It's a much, much more effective, and flexible all-around ship and can better handle different roles. It can handle DDs, and other cruisers and can burn BBs (or torp if you are lucky).  Duca is more fun, but if you can only get one, De Grasse is the better choice. 

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De Grasse, I got them both and D’Aosta is terrible DPS. De Grasse has much better AP. They both are good with dodging shots. De Grasse turrets are way faster to so you can flop around and they keep up.

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2 minutes ago, awiggin said:

WG gave me the De Grasse today, only ran it a few times but seems like an upscale La Gal, plays very nice.

That's exactly what it is. It's La Gal with the flaws hammered out, but still on the same tier. As I recall it has more torps and better armor. 

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38 minutes ago, Chobittsu said:

They're both fine choices. The DeGrasse is very well balanced, haven't played the Costa Concordia but I hear good things

:cap_hmm: As long as you avoid islands, you're usually fine...

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54 minutes ago, Sweetsie said:

With the doubloon sale, might as well pick one up, but which? they both seems to have similar win rates, similar average damage...the De Grasse is more expensive, but not much....any feelings one way or another? 

If you have a minute please feel free to throw your .02        TY in advance.

As somebody who has both, ... get De Grasse. The ship is extremely good, especially if you have concealment and IFHE.

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12 minutes ago, Lampshade_M1A2 said:

Doesn't Duca have 1000 meter per second railguns on it though?

Caveat...yes...but AP only the HE has a slower shell and higher arc.

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It really depends on what you like. Duca d'Aosta is a fun ship (36.5 knots base speed, 38.3 knots with speed flag), great against most things except or battleships. She just doesn't have the damage output in torpedoes or gunnery (at least, HE gunnery and fires) to put them down like other cruisers can (to the extent that cruisers can put down BBs in the first place, since they're not great at it).

 

In a breif summary: She's fast, handles like a dream, has very trollish armor (especially against shells of 155mm and smaller), has high-velocity guns (1000mps AP, 950mps HE. HE has bad drag however and starts to get slow around 10 km) that fire rapidly (8 rpm), is fairly stealthy, has access to hydro, DF, and a spotter at the same time... but her hit points aren't that high, her armor holds up rather poorly against anything larger than a 283mm shells, her AA power by itself isn't fantastic, her HE damage numbers are fairly anemic, and her torpedo battery isn't fantastic, lacking hitting power while featuring a low number of torpedoes that are slow in spite of their long range (but they have incredible stealth, only visible from 1000m away, leading to very short reaction times).

 

She has difficulty taking on battleships because her torpedoes lack the punch (and she just doesn't have enough) to devastate them, and her HE has a low fire chance making burning them down difficult. Her armor, as a light cruiser, also doesn't fair well, though her very long and large belt of 70mm can be used to bait shots and bounce BB shells (at autobounce angles). You can take them on when the time calls for it, if you've got a good hand on your rudder and know where to aim (I 1v1'd a 2/3 health Gneisenau at half health in my d'Aosta and took him down... 22k of the damage I did to him was via AP. The fight only lasted a minute or so.) However, it's not advised, as there are ships that are just better at it. The aforementioned example was every part the definition of a desperate situation. 

Against incoming aircraft, her raw AA isn't very strong; most of it is in her 37mm guns (46.4 dps @ 3.5 km). However, if you activate defensive fire, you can do a surprising amount of damage to the strikes, and because of the scatter affect DF has, and d'Aosta's excellent handling, you can dodge air-dropped torpedoes fairly easily.

Against destroyers, she's fantastic. She's fast enough to run them down, can easily gun them down, and with hydro on hand and the ever-present handling characteristics can easily dodge enemy fish. Her trollish armor also makes it very difficult for destroyer AP rounds to cause devastating damage like they can with many other cruisers. Her torpedoes, because of their great stealth and great firing angles, are very useful to pop enemy DDs in smoke.

Against the cruisers, things get kinda complicated. Her HE is adequate because you usually don't burn cruisers down, but her AP is what makes her shine. As long as they're broadside, you can usually citadel them. There are a handful of cruisers in your matchmaker spread that have enough armor to resist your AP at longer ranges (penetration is 3" at 16 km, 4" at 12.2 km, 5" at 10 km, and 6" at 8 km). Meanwhile, even fast broadside your AP is incredibly trollish towards rounds of 155mm (6.1") and smaller. However, against heavy cruiser shells, 203mm (8") and greater, if you're broadside they'll shred you. That's while you angle, as 203mm AP cannot overmatch your armor anywhere. Even 283mm (11.1") AP cannot overmatch the side of your hull; only your bow and stern. As long as you keep using your rudder, at longer ranges you'll easily be able to avoid enemy fire while returning your own. At close range your rate of fire and handling can make it very easy for clumsier opponents to nail you, while you won't have the same issues. Ammo choice is key. The AP is great, but if an enemy target can't be penetrated, you're wasting your time.

 

She's a unique, peculiar, but fun ship. She's probably a better time to play than De Grasse. However, overall De Grasse is a much more balanced ship. She's naturally slower than d'Aosta, is forced to choose between hydro or DF, can't bring a spotter (only a fighter), has better health, doesn't handle as well (despite the 20m smaller turning radius) and is less stealth (about 1.3 km more base detection). Her guns fire slower than d'Aosta, but she's got nine (A-B-Y layout versus d'Aosta's A-B-X-Y), and their turrets traverse incredibly fast. The HE is better, almost double the fire chance, and the HE & AP do 100 more max damage than d'Aosta's. They're fired at an excellent, but much more modest, 870mps. The range is also better than d'Aosta's by about 2 km. The armor has advantages and disadvantages versus d'Aosta's. It's probably better protected for a novice user, but ultimately you can do a lot more with d'Aosta's armor scheme.

 

Overall De Grasse isn't as good at handling destroyers, and gives you a much more conventional fight against other cruisers. Versus battleships, she has better offensive power with her harder-hitting torpedoes, and her far better HE (she's pretty good at burning down battleships), but her lesser stealth, speed (without speed boost), and handing makes her more vulnerable to return fire than d'Aosta

 

If your focus is on doing as much damage as you can, De Grasse is your pick. She does more damage overall, and in general has a higher winrate. However, their XP earning is about the same, as because d'Aosta forces you to focus on destroyers and cruisers more than battleships, she tends to do more damage that matters - damage that not only can't be repaired (unlike most cruiser damage against battleships), but also by killing important targets like DDs, which is rewarded more. Credits and XP are decided by the percentage of damage you do to your target. 10,000 hit points off of destroyers is more valuable than 50,000 damage done to battleships.

 

Overall, it depends on the kind of ship you want. De Grasee is a solid performer, basically a better La Galissonniére at the cost of AA power. Overall she'll probably get you more damage than d'Aosta. However, Duca d'Aosta will challenge you more, in a fun way. It all depends on the kind of ship you want.

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On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 10:27 PM, Phoenix_jz said:

It really depends on what you like. Duca d'Aosta is a fun ship (36.5 knots base speed, 38.3 knots with speed flag), great against most things except or battleships. She just doesn't have the damage output in torpedoes or gunnery (at least, HE gunnery and fires) to put them down like other cruisers can (to the extent that cruisers can put down BBs in the first place, since they're not great at it).

 

In a breif summary: She's fast, handles like a dream, has very trollish armor (especially against shells of 155mm and smaller), has high-velocity guns (1000mps AP, 950mps HE. HE has bad drag however and starts to get slow around 10 km) that fire rapidly (8 rpm), is fairly stealthy, has access to hydro, DF, and a spotter at the same time... but her hit points aren't that high, her armor holds up rather poorly against anything larger than a 283mm shells, her AA power by itself isn't fantastic, her HE damage numbers are fairly anemic, and her torpedo battery isn't fantastic, lacking hitting power while featuring a low number of torpedoes that are slow in spite of their long range (but they have incredible stealth, only visible from 1000m away, leading to very short reaction times).

 

She has difficulty taking on battleships because her torpedoes lack the punch (and she just doesn't have enough) to devastate them, and her HE has a low fire chance making burning them down difficult. Her armor, as a light cruiser, also doesn't fair well, though her very long and large belt of 70mm can be used to bait shots and bounce BB shells (at autobounce angles). You can take them on when the time calls for it, if you've got a good hand on your rudder and know where to aim (I 1v1'd a 2/3 health Gneisenau at half health in my d'Aosta and took him down... 22k of the damage I did to him was via AP. The fight only lasted a minute or so.) However, it's not advised, as there are ships that are just better at it. The aforementioned example was every part the definition of a desperate situation. 

Against incoming aircraft, her raw AA isn't very strong; most of it is in her 37mm guns (46.4 dps @ 3.5 km). However, if you activate defensive fire, you can do a surprising amount of damage to the strikes, and because of the scatter affect DF has, and d'Aosta's excellent handling, you can dodge air-dropped torpedoes fairly easily.

Against destroyers, she's fantastic. She's fast enough to run them down, can easily gun them down, and with hydro on hand and the ever-present handling characteristics can easily dodge enemy fish. Her trollish armor also makes it very difficult for destroyer AP rounds to cause devastating damage like they can with many other cruisers. Her torpedoes, because of their great stealth and great firing angles, are very useful to pop enemy DDs in smoke.

Against the cruisers, things get kinda complicated. Her HE is adequate because you usually don't burn cruisers down, but her AP is what makes her shine. As long as they're broadside, you can usually citadel them. There are a handful of cruisers in your matchmaker spread that have enough armor to resist your AP at longer ranges (penetration is 3" at 16 km, 4" at 12.2 km, 5" at 10 km, and 6" at 8 km). Meanwhile, even fast broadside your AP is incredibly trollish towards rounds of 155mm (6.1") and smaller. However, against heavy cruiser shells, 203mm (8") and greater, if you're broadside they'll shred you. That's while you angle, as 203mm AP cannot overmatch your armor anywhere. Even 283mm (11.1") AP cannot overmatch the side of your hull; only your bow and stern. As long as you keep using your rudder, at longer ranges you'll easily be able to avoid enemy fire while returning your own. At close range your rate of fire and handling can make it very easy for clumsier opponents to nail you, while you won't have the same issues. Ammo choice is key. The AP is great, but if an enemy target can't be penetrated, you're wasting your time.

 

She's a unique, peculiar, but fun ship. She's probably a better time to play than De Grasse. However, overall De Grasse is a much more balanced ship. She's naturally slower than d'Aosta, is forced to choose between hydro or DF, can't bring a spotter (only a fighter), has better health, doesn't handle as well (despite the 20m smaller turning radius) and is less stealth (about 1.3 km more base detection). Her guns fire slower than d'Aosta, but she's got nine (A-B-Y layout versus d'Aosta's A-B-X-Y), and their turrets traverse incredibly fast. The HE is better, almost double the fire chance, and the HE & AP do 100 more max damage than d'Aosta's. They're fired at an excellent, but much more modest, 870mps. The range is also better than d'Aosta's by about 2 km. The armor has advantages and disadvantages versus d'Aosta's. It's probably better protected for a novice user, but ultimately you can do a lot more with d'Aosta's armor scheme.

 

Overall De Grasse isn't as good at handling destroyers, and gives you a much more conventional fight against other cruisers. Versus battleships, she has better offensive power with her harder-hitting torpedoes, and her far better HE (she's pretty good at burning down battleships), but her lesser stealth, speed (without speed boost), and handing makes her more vulnerable to return fire than d'Aosta

 

If your focus is on doing as much damage as you can, De Grasse is your pick. She does more damage overall, and in general has a higher winrate. However, their XP earning is about the same, as because d'Aosta forces you to focus on destroyers and cruisers more than battleships, she tends to do more damage that matters - damage that not only can't be repaired (unlike most cruiser damage against battleships), but also by killing important targets like DDs, which is rewarded more. Credits and XP are decided by the percentage of damage you do to your target. 10,000 hit points off of destroyers is more valuable than 50,000 damage done to battleships.

 

Overall, it depends on the kind of ship you want. De Grasee is a solid performer, basically a better La Galissonniére at the cost of AA power. Overall she'll probably get you more damage than d'Aosta. However, Duca d'Aosta will challenge you more, in a fun way. It all depends on the kind of ship you want.

Thank you very much for this detailed response! I haven't pulled the trigger yet, interestingly enough I'm leaning towards the Duca mainly form the unique gameplay it may provide. 

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Duca is a Maseratti of a cruiser. She's fast as hell, and her gun velocity is even faster. Long ranged torps and she can dance like a hare. Bad parts are, low DPM, very long cruiser and anemic at best HE(cruiser really suffers without IEHE to get reliable HE dmg in). Also Duca suffers from low range with meh detection so it can be a struggle at times to get a first shot off. Really need a 14 point skipper.

 

De Grasse is decently quick with a speed boost. Good guns, almost as maneuverable with 9 rapid fire guns. This little lady puts way more shells down range than Duca. She can also stand off with impressive range.

Downsides are, only 2 torps per broadside, atrocious armor, you get hit, it's going to hurt. A LOT.

 

Out of the two De Grasse is an all around balanced cruiser with good HE, good AP, great range and excellent DPM. Not to say Duca is horrible, she simply requires more finesse.

 

But the better looking of the two, hands down Duca. She is one impressive looking ship.

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I've had De Grasse since she was first offered and I love it! IMHO, the best tier 6 Cruiser. :cap_like:

2 minutes ago, IronWolfV said:

De Grasse is decently quick with a speed boost. Good guns, almost as maneuverable with 9 rapid fire guns. This little lady puts way more shells down range than Duca. She can also stand off with impressive range.

Downsides are, only 2 torps per broadside, atrocious armor, you get hit, it's going to hurt. A LOT.

DG has 3 torps per side, you have her confused with La Gal there. She's a lot more robust than you give her credit for Wolf.

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9 minutes ago, ReddNekk said:

I've had De Grasse since she was first offered and I love it! IMHO, the best tier 6 Cruiser. :cap_like:

DG has 3 torps per side, you have her confused with La Gal there. She's a lot more robust than you give her credit for Wolf.

Oh deep. Oops.

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It’s like choosing between pestilence and cholera. Make sure you are a fan of light cruisers. Make sure that you cannot get a few doubloons more and buy you something that is real fun like the Scharnhorst. If you have only those two: De Grasse. She can do everything the Duca can do. She is kind of jack-of-all-traits without marvel at anything. Both have the same disadvantage: they are limited crew trainers. There is no Italian navy in the game now and the French navy has only cruisers (BB at some time early next year). I have both but consider it a waste of time to play them with the current MM. This is a subject of change since WG leaked that they want to take a look at the mid tier MM next year. But then: 2017 was the year of the carrier *cough*

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I don't own either but please, buy D'Aosta.

 

De Grasse is shady practice all-around:

  • She's not the interesting historic ship.
  • She's a premium paper ship - WG should do the huge list of built, famous ships as premiums before dipping into boring paper.
  • She's outright superior to La Galissoniere in every way that matters - 2.5kt faster, 8.1s instead of 9s(!) reload, longer ranged, 4,900 more HP. I'd say she was 'pay to win' but really she's 'pay for adequacy'.

 

D'Aosta is a unique, different ship which cost WG something to model, has some history, has a combination of firepower and maneuverability not seen before and is generally a worthy purchase. Even if she's low threat (why shoot the hard to hit but low DPS/fire output D'Aosta when you can shoot the high threat but slab sided Cleveland?) she has actual unique points, both consumable slots, the handling (again).

D'Aosta also seems to synergize well with the planned Abruzzi for captain exchanging, whereas De Grasse is a poor captain trainer for the 203mm armed Algerie-Saint Louis and kinda marginal on the Henri - it does get >50mm pen which is good on Khaba, a bit of Yamato's deck, a bit of GK/FdG/Biz's deck, some of Moskva, and that's about it, in exchange for fire chance on everything else.

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Neither.

 

Tier VI ships are in a bad spot in the current MM and the Tier VI Cruisers I consider to be pretty terrible with the exception of Cleveland, who is about to go to Tier VIII.

Get Atago.

Get Kutuzov.

Hell, get self-propelled target ship Atlanta if you want.

Just not that awful Tier V-VI Premium Cruiser range.

 

If you insist on spending doubloons on either Duca or DeGrasse... It depends.

In effectiveness, DeGrasse is better.  She's traditional in CL style of play and unlike Duca, she does not demand a high points captain to be effective.  You can throw a very low points captain on DeGrasse and she will do okay.  

Interesting bit of trivia:  La Galissionaire had DeGrasse's gun reload but was nerfed abruptly just before French Cruiser Line was released.  DeGrasse did not exist for the testers, public test server.  Everyone wondered why.  Then a bit later, DeGrasse released sporting the gun reload time La Gal originally had.

 

Duca?  SUPER SQUISHY.  Gun range is very inadequate.  The shells are extremely weak, giving up non-pens and the sort regardless of shell type you use.  Yes, you will get a lot of non-pens with HE.  Duca DEMANDS a high points captain, as IFHE is a *MUST* otherwise your damage output will be very bad despite getting a lot of hits.  Of course, taking IFHE nukes Duca's already very low fire chance to begin with...  Both French Cruisers and Duca get their rudder knocked out frequently, so that's another stress on a build to consider.  However, the way Duca plays is unique to other Cruisers of her tier.  It is decently fun.  I'm not saying it's effective, though.  DeGrasse is the more effective Tier VI CL between the two.

npwH8UF.jpg

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I dont have neither (yet). But i just bought Duca. 

 

I had the same question, wich one to buy. I watched lots of YT videos, read opiniões and reviews. Both seems good cruisers, but they play in a different way:

 

De Grasse is good at farming damage from range. Rain shells over the enemy. Very similar to La Galissionerie but better. 

 

Duca d'Aosta is a much more agressive cruiser, your job is to kill DDs and cruisers. But you will strugle against BBs.

 

De Grasse is more passive/damage farmer, a standard CL. Duca is more agressive. Both ships seems good in their own way and have good tools to make their job. 

 

*Duca gets bonus points for being one of the most beautiful ships in the game (IMO).

 

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Duca, Grasse and Bama might be the last three i get from this sale. considered the Blys and Leningrad. Then again the warspite and Hood look like decent options

 

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