Zao: Why only 40k HP now?

[Crucis]

Like my short title alludes to, with the Zao's bread and butter tactic, OWSF, long gone, why hasn't its HP total of only 40,800 been rebalanced back up to the 50k HP range to be on par with other tier 10 cruisers?

And heck, while I'm at it ...

Also with OWSF gone, why haven't certain high tier Russian DD's had their base concealments reduced?  After all, the major reason they were so high was to make it difficult for them to abuse OWSF.  But with that gone, why haven't their base concealments been reduced to more competitive levels?

[HazeGrayUnderway]

She is still doing very well despite the removal of OWSF.

With the loss of that capability, she is still competitive.  Sure, ATM she is bottom in WR% but WR% goes up and down.  Also the WR% split between Tier X Cruisers is very close.  This isn't like other ships and tiers where there is as much as a 7% split between best and worst.  Zao is still doing competitive damage.

 

Sure, she is no longer getting the big press she did compared to the days when it was only Zao and DM as Tier X Cruisers, but she is no slouch.  Go ahead and ask those high tier BBs if they don't mind much of Zao's Hellfire Shells   She's still got amazing stealth and great gunnery and it's enough to hang with HIV, Moskva, Hindenburg in the range game.

 

Now, I definitely wouldn't mind if she got her old HP back but honestly... She is doing fine still.

[LastSamurai714]

Because FU that's why.

[atPrick__]

I miss old Zao, I miss the older Zao.

 

Guess that says a lot.

 

Zao was strong, now she isn't. How this game works....

[RightYouAreKen]

She’s got amazing concealment, HE, and AP.  She plays a sneaky “get in unseen and punish their broadsides” game quite well.  She does ok with the HP she’s got.    

[YamatoA150]

She needs her old 44800 HP back. Sure, it's only about one non-citpen's worth of HP, but it's still ridiculous that she has less HP than even Minotaur, a CL. Furthermore, her guns could do with a traverse unnerf; it's equally ridiculous that they traverse more slowly than Moskva or Henri's larger caliber triples. That would be enough for her. A restoration of the old F3 torpedoes to 10km would be nice too; also buffing Shimakaze some, but that would just be icing at this point.

She'd still have a low RoF as typical of the IJN cruisers, be exceedingly vulnerable to broadside than other T10 cruisers, and assuming no F3 range buff, highly situational and near suicidal torpedoes.

[Crucis]

Excellent concealment only takes you so far in a cruiser.  This is going to sound strange perhaps, but it seems to me that concealment is more valuable on most DDs (other than Russian or Russian style gunboat DDs that have to be constantly firing) and on BBs that have reload times exceeding their gun bloom times, thus allowing them to stealth up between volleys.  It seems to me that Cruisers generally need to be constantly firing their guns to do their job, thus constantly negating their concealment.  Yes, there are exceptions and times when a CA like a Zao may actually want to use its concealment, but it seems to me that that's the exception not the rule.

[SireneRacker]

I don't really see that as a Problem.

Zao cannot trade Shells on an even ground to begin with, her dpm is far below the other T10 Cruisers (except Henri, but Henri has other stuff going for her) so you already rely a lot on not getting hit in the first place. You have the range and ballistics to fight at 16-17km against pretty much everything, and at those ranges you are also nimble enough to dodge.

It's true that your stealth won't help you when you are always Shooting, but where it does help significantly is when you Need to Reposition, disengage or when you get into a Position where you rely more on your Alpha damage (for example ambushing a DD). You can reach positions that a Hindenburg could never reach.

[Akeno017]

1 hour ago, YamatoA150 said:

 be exceedingly vulnerable to broadside than other T10 cruisers

I'm sorry, but that's just wrong.

Zao trollarmor is still ever present, you have better luck citting hindinbergs turtleback then zao. She really isn't vulnerable when played correctly, or at the long ranges most zaos do.

[Taichunger]

I dont think she needs a buff, though god knows I'd love to have 10 km torps back. But concealment is better than smoke, it is on 100% of the time. Get in trouble in a high tier sniping match and most of the time you can just fade away

 

[anonymised]

Wait, no cruiser has a positive win rate the last 2 weeks? How bad are these players?

[crzyhawk]

She needs her original name back too.  Senjo was best Zao.

[Show_Me_Your_Cits]

Zao (and Des Memes) need a buff to base range. 

A nice QoL change would be to have its old HP restored since its not an OP monster anymore... And while we're at it... Type 93 mod 3s pls? Maybe some improved torp launcher angles? 

The legacy cruisers have been power crept pretty hard. 

[yashma]

The Zao is still competitive, but I feel she has been powercreeped heavily, especially by the Hindenburg.  The Zao is no longer the best long range HE spammer, and due to her low HP pool, poor DPM, poor firing arcs and poor turret traverse the Zao is also a very questionable brawler.  At this point the Zao's greatest strength is abusing its stealth to ambush broadside cruisers with AP, but that is awfully niche for my liking.  

Personally I feel the Zao could use some quality of life buffs.  Restore her old HP pool and maybe give her the same 12km torps found on high tier IJN DDs.