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FacePalming

Battleships should not be able to knock majority of a DDs health away from > 15K

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I'm in my Kidd, knife fighting a Fletcher in the B cap on Loop.  Closest ship is 15K away, and while moving, took a 10K salvo from some unseen BB.  That helped me loose that fight.

There is no explanation that I can find that would allow BBs to have the accuracy to hit a moving Destroyer from that far away and chip away that much health.  I'm not saying they shouldn't, if I am 5K away and rushing you, by all means destroy me.  I'm saying the passive POS BB sitting in his spawn should not be able to have that much of an effect on a DD knife fight in a cap.

Please fix.

 

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 Big guns, unarmored little ship, BOOM. You zigged when you should have zagged. Kudos to the BB that made that shot. Not easy to do at that distance.

Edited by Noone_You_Know
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There's nothing to fix. Either he got lucky, or you got lazy and didn't put enough wiggle on it. Also, 15k isn't "POS BB" distance, that's actually medium range for a lot of higher tier BBs. 

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17 minutes ago, FacePalming said:

I'm in my Kidd, knife fighting a Fletcher in the B cap on Loop.  Closest ship is 15K away, and while moving, took a 10K salvo from some unseen BB.  That helped me loose that fight.

There is no explanation that I can find that would allow BBs to have the accuracy to hit a moving Destroyer from that far away and chip away that much health.  I'm not saying they shouldn't, if I am 5K away and rushing you, by all means destroy me.  I'm saying the passive POS BB sitting in his spawn should not be able to have that much of an effect on a DD knife fight in a cap.

Please fix.

 

If said BB is 15k away, then getting hit is on you. Not RNG Not MM. The mechanics are working as intended

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17 minutes ago, FacePalming said:

I'm in my Kidd, knife fighting a Fletcher in the B cap on Loop.  Closest ship is 15K away, and while moving, took a 10K salvo from some unseen BB.  That helped me loose that fight.

There is no explanation that I can find that would allow BBs to have the accuracy to hit a moving Destroyer from that far away and chip away that much health.  I'm not saying they shouldn't, if I am 5K away and rushing you, by all means destroy me.  I'm saying the passive POS BB sitting in his spawn should not be able to have that much of an effect on a DD knife fight in a cap.

Please fix.

 

 

Like most everyone else said, if they hit you, you should go splat as you are a DD and they don't take kindly to capital ship weapons.

 

16 minutes ago, KommandantPerry said:

If you maneuver enough its near impossible to hit someone at 15k thats a DD

 

True. I have fired many a BB shell that missed and missed badly. But every once in a while in PvP, I get lucky.

 

I have more luck in PvE, but anyone should have more luck vs bots.

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The farther away you are from a BB, the more likely you're going to receive NORMAL pens instead of overpens.

 

I've very much dumpstered 10-20K salvos into DD's at 13+KM with Montannas and Yamatos. Lower pen at range = more chance of Pens.

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Are you sure you're not mistaking bad luck for something else?

 

When you speak of accuracy being too high, that necessarily entails a certain degree of consistency.

 

I've detonated a khab at 20km with my opening salvo before.  If I was able to consistently do that; if I could pull off stunts like that at-will, then I'd agree here's a problem.  But as it is, those sorts of events are resolved by a flip of the coin (often not even, as such things are Usually much less than 50% likely to occur), and I have no real ability to control the outcome.

 

If the only control the BB player has is to point his guns, pull the trigger, and get the ball rolling, but can't control whether the ball will get a strike or go down the gutter, then you gotta blame rngesus instead of the class or the player.

 

Or put it another way.  You may be able to kick a 90 yard field goal.  But you can't aim for crap.  If the ball goes through the goalposts when you kick it, that really wasn't up to you; it was pure luck.  You can't be blamed for missing the goal anymore than you can be credited for making the goal.

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18 minutes ago, FacePalming said:

I'm in my Kidd, knife fighting a Fletcher in the B cap on Loop.  Closest ship is 15K away, and while moving, took a 10K salvo from some unseen BB.  That helped me loose that fight.

There is no explanation that I can find that would allow BBs to have the accuracy to hit a moving Destroyer from that far away and chip away that much health.  I'm not saying they shouldn't, if I am 5K away and rushing you, by all means destroy me.  I'm saying the passive POS BB sitting in his spawn should not be able to have that much of an effect on a DD knife fight in a cap.

Please fix.

 

People keep making this kind of silly complaint.  Think about what you just said.  The fact is that BB's DO NOT have the accuracy to do this.  The reality is that the BB got lucky and RNGesus landed those shots on your DD.  The BB player may have been skillful enough to have aimed well enough to get the shots in the general vicinity of your Kidd, but it was blind luck (aka RNG) that landed the shells on your DD. 

I've hit very damaged DDs at distances over 10km before with snap shots that were as well aimed as I could make them on short notice.  And killed them because I got my aim close and gave RNG a chance to get the hits.  You also have to factor in the fact that if a BB fires a full volley at you, you're probably looking at 8-12 shells inbound, and it's not beyond the pale to expect RNG to land a couple of pretty well aimed shells on your DD.

It's just plain silly for people to think that their  DD's have some sort of immunity from long range fire.

 

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1 minute ago, Shadeylark said:

 

If the only control the BB player has is to point his guns, pull the trigger, and get the ball rolling, but can't control whether the ball will get a strike or go down the gutter, then you gotta blame rngesus instead of the class or the player.

 

 

At long range vs a DD, you are pretty much guessing that I think the DD will turn and end up here and you shoot there. If you get lucky and the DD drives to that spot, well it should go splat. In my experience, the little twisty DDs usually head for some other spot and I splash them with water at best.

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3 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

If said BB is 15k away, then getting hit is on you. Not RNG Not MM. The mechanics are working as intended

Disagree.  That implies bbs are able to consistently score hits on poorly driven dds at that range.

 

You're just as likely to dev strike dd driven by a unicum as one driven by a bot/potato at that range.

 

Skill has little to do with scoring big hits on dds at range.  Its all rng; did he turn left instead of right (bearing in mind he can only guess which way to turn), did dispersion favor you b grouping our shots perfectly (or maybe dispersing them perfectly), etc etc?

 

Too many factors beyond either players control in the ops scenario to chalk it up to anything but pure dumb luck.

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Just now, Shadeylark said:

Disagree.  That implies bbs are able to consistently score hits on poorly driven dds at that range.

 

You're just as likely to dev strike dd driven by a unicum as one driven by a bot/potato at that range.

 

Skill has little to do with scoring big hits on dds at range.  Its all rng; did he turn left instead of right (bearing in mind he can only guess which way to turn), did dispersion favor you b grouping our shots perfectly (or maybe dispersing them perfectly), etc etc?

 

Too many factors beyond either players control in the ops scenario to chalk it up to anything but pure dumb luck.

Predictability

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1 minute ago, Shadeylark said:

Disagree.  That implies bbs are able to consistently score hits on poorly driven dds at that range.

 

You're just as likely to dev strike dd driven by a unicum as one driven by a bot/potato at that range.

 

Skill has little to do with scoring big hits on dds at range.  Its all rng; did he turn left instead of right (bearing in mind he can only guess which way to turn), did dispersion favor you b grouping our shots perfectly (or maybe dispersing them perfectly), etc etc?

 

Too many factors beyond either players control in the ops scenario to chalk it up to anything but pure dumb luck.

 

I disagree on the bots. I play 5-10% PvP and the rest PvE. Bot DDs tend to drive in straight lines longer than the majority of human DDs. I can usually zero in on a bot DD at range, but people tend to be much more unpredictable.

 

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There are plenty of times where i hit for both good and bad on a DD at this range and sometimes lower... Rngesus works when it wants.

 

Not to mention getting several overpens cause good damage too at times..

 

Works fine DD's got plenty going for them right now.

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By the way HE doesn't even have to hit you to hurt you  there is splash damage with HE. So if a full salvo from a BB goes all around you but doesn't even hit you,  you can get killed then too.

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15 minutes ago, Kizarvexis said:

 

I disagree on the bots. I play 5-10% PvP and the rest PvE. Bot DDs tend to drive in straight lines longer than the majority of human DDs. I can usually zero in on a bot DD at range, but people tend to be much more unpredictable.

 

It's just a question of at what point does rng weigh more heavily than player agency in determining the results.

 

Honestly, that's all this game boils down to, especially in relation to player skill and experience.  Better players can predict more accurately what other players will do; but eventually luck makes fools of even the best players.

 

Actually, come to think of it, that's probably the best way to define player skill; the ability to both predict another players actions, AND to manipulate the situation so as to minimize the influence of rng on the outcome.  Lots of folks who can do neither, some who can do one or the other, and very few who can do both.

 

 

Edited by Shadeylark

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The Op stated he was in a knife fight with another DD. He was visible the BB driver watched for a few seconds and saw a pattern and predicted where he should aim. Predictability. It does work, even for Big Lumbering Dumb BB Drivers. Sometimes the Tortoise wins the race.

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8 minutes ago, Shadeylark said:

It's just a question of at what point does rng weigh more heavily than player agency in determining the results.

 

Honestly, that's all this game boils down to, especially in relation to player skill and experience.  Better players can predict more accurately what other players will do; but eventually luck makes fools of even the best players.

 

Actually, come to think of it, that's probably the best way to define player skill; the ability to both predict another players actions, AND to manipulate the situation so as to minimize the influence of rng on the outcome.  Lots of folks who can do neither, some who can do one or the other, and very few who can do both.

 

 

 

Yeah, skill and RNG kind of go hand in hand. There have been many a time in PvE where I was dead on to a bot DD and the shots would splash all around.

 

The part of your quote I bolded, pretty much sums up getting gud at WoWs IMO.

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2 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

The Op stated he was in a knife fight with another DD. He was visible the BB driver watched for a few seconds and saw a pattern and predicted where he should aim. Predictability. It does work, even for Big Lumbering Dumb BB Drivers. Sometimes the Tortoise wins the race.

 

That may not be what happened, but is likely. I know in PvE, bots are more predictable than humans and it is easier to zero in on a DD there. RNGesus does affect you though as I have been right on target on a bot DD and the shots would land on either side of it. :Smile_facepalm:

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Yea, it happens quite often. Usually a Monty or Iowa as they have the accuracy to do it. Though leave it to the German buckshot patterns to nail you for a 33% pen.

Completely your fault though for driving a USN DD and using your guns, according to WG.

WG still hasn't figured out how to un-break USN and IJN DDs from patch 6.3. They gave PADDs permasmoke to make them mildly compeditive as they publicly deny the problem exists. Give it another year until they do the obvious thing everyone told them to do from the start. (Cut the bloom time on DDs.)

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10 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Yea, it happens quite often. Usually a Monty or Iowa as they have the accuracy to do it. Though leave it to the German buckshot patterns to nail you for a 33% pen.

Completely your fault though for driving a USN DD and using your guns, according to WG.

WG still hasn't figured out how to un-break USN and IJN DDs from patch 6.3. They gave PADDs permasmoke to make them mildly compeditive as they publicly deny the problem exists. Give it another year until they do the obvious thing everyone told them to do from the start. (Cut the bloom time on DDs.)

Cutting Bloom time for DDs would be a great start

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59 minutes ago, Shadeylark said:

Disagree.  That implies bbs are able to consistently score hits on poorly driven dds at that range.

 

You're just as likely to dev strike dd driven by a unicum as one driven by a bot/potato at that range.

 

Skill has little to do with scoring big hits on dds at range.  Its all rng; did he turn left instead of right (bearing in mind he can only guess which way to turn), did dispersion favor you b grouping our shots perfectly (or maybe dispersing them perfectly), etc etc?

 

Too many factors beyond either players control in the ops scenario to chalk it up to anything but pure dumb luck.

Shadey, you're close.  It's not "all" RNG, but it's mostly RNG.  If the player can't aim fairly well, RNG isn't going to land poorly aimed shots.  You need some pretty decent aim to get the shells close enough that RNG can get them the rest of the way to get the actual hits.

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