Ranked Harekaze Builds

[Uber_Ghost]

I'm interested in what Harekaze build folks are bringing to ranked.  Mainly, are you running IFHE or RL?  Smoke or reload?  I'm wondering if investing points in the guns is worth it considering the amount of Kidd's, Lo Yang's, and Benson's that will certainly be out there.   

[Sovereigndawg]

1 hour ago, Uber_Ghost said:

I'm interested in what Harekaze build folks are bringing to ranked.  Mainly, are you running IFHE or RL?  Smoke or reload?  I'm wondering if investing points in the guns is worth it considering the amount of Kidd's, Lo Yang's, and Benson's that will certainly be out there.   

I am not sure what builds I would use but now is the time to redo your Captains, I am not sure how long the free reset lasts.

[Warlord_Deadeye_Pete]

I'll give you mine.  This build works well with my rather aggressive style of play.. and a little luck of course!

 

Harekaze 4-10 (100mm guns)

Upgrades

slot 1, Magazine Mod 1

slot 2 , Engine Boost Mod 1 (special, engine boost lasts 150% of normal duration)

slot 3,  AA Guns Mod 2 

slot 4, Propulsion Mod 2

slot 5, Concealment Mod 1

 

Consumables; premiuma ll, DC, TRB, EB.. No Smoke!

 

Commander Skills: [19 point] Preventive maintenance (1), Adrenaline Rush (2), Last Stand (2), Survivability Expert (3), Superintendent (3), Inertial Fused High Explosive (4) Radio Position Finding (4)

 

Whys and where for's, of less then usuall Upgrades;  Slot 3 would be where one would normally put Aiming Systems Mod 1 but I decided against this.  for just the more then a little bit of extra AA rating which mostly effects the 100mm DP guns.  The main guns are aren't even 10k range and dispersion is not an issue though the slower training torpedo's could be a handicap.  On the other hand if your in a position to have to snap shoot torps in an IJN DD you've all ready fouled up!

 

Commander skill whys and where fors.  Where things get dicy is in the 3 and 4 point skills.  Notice I did not take concealment expert. Even without Concealment expert my surface detect is still only a mear 6Km.  With RPF anyone that I cannot see I will still know they are there, and that's good 'nuff.  SE ebcause 2,800 additional HP may well save ones butt in a pinch.  Ifhe because 100mm guns.. same problems as the Akizuki with 2 less barrals and shorter range.. nope IFHE on the 4-10 hull is an absolute must.  Now I may drop superintendent and the extra consumables and take either Demolition Expert or Basic Firing training.  Now I want to buff my main gun ROF and AAA or do I want to set more fires?   Decisions decisions!  Most likely I'll drop it for the Basic Firing Training as it improves two stats for the ship.  I haven't quite made up my mind on that.    I will be running premium consumables (faster reload, extra charges) anyway and I only end up using them all once in 100 matches so Superintendent may not be the best back for my buck on DD set up for any sort of competitive play

 

Harekaze is not a "super" ship by any means but she can be darn solid and I have had some pretty awesome matches in it.  The guns without the aiming module are still VERY accurate (2.o sigma i assume or better.. the shells tend to group very tightly when they get to the target)  I'm running a slightly better the 60% hit rate in mine which is not only outstanding but reflects a lot of time focused on improving my aim and target movement prediction.. though that's not that difficult with these guns high muzzle velocity.. They go where you tell them too.  Other DD's do NOT like getting in guns fights with this ship as her ROF tends to be half again faster then theirs as it is.  If your thinking and switch to AP on close in broadside DD's and aim low you'll tear them apart in very short order.. and leave em sitting with engines and rudder out while you either polosh them off or leave them for the cruisers and BB's to finish off.  Just remember at any angle over 45% on target switch to the HE as the AP starts shattering at that point.  (AP Normalization on this ship utterly stinks.. pretty sure we only get to use the shells the Army rejected.  The 10cm/65 was the primary Imperial Army AAA field piece and even found limited use in the Anti Tank role where it reportedly did very very very well..)

 

A note on ranked/team play for all players.   Last supremacy league season was tier 8 and this player was in a bronze team that went 8-4 for the season.  I'm not bragging here, it's to qualify my next few statements with real experience.  I ran a Kagero pretty much exclusively and ran it No smoke and pretty much played every single match my team was in for the season.  I did very well.  The extra torpedo's were a god send any number of times and allowed ships to be hit crippled or killed that other wise would not have been.  Running no smoke also forced me to pay attention to target distances, bearing and aspect. I swear I felt more like a fighter pilot at times then a ship captain with the level of situational awareness I was having to maintain..  I was constantly comparing what RPF was showing me as the closest target and what was in front of me and managed more then once to blind fire torpedo's into the path of a  concealed DD taking them out!  The other reason I chose to go no smoke is issues with the raw amount of radar out there and of course arcraft.  Unless yur going wide out away from the main body of the team stay at NO MORE THEN 5 Km from friendly ships.  There's a reason for this.. Harakaze AA is OK, but if a CV want you, he will have you, so stay under the AA umbrella of bigger ships to give you that extra bit of protection from strike aircraft.  In ranked/team battles with carriers your job is NOT spotting, your job is being a hunter killer.

It's what your best at.  If your team gives you crap about no going for the cap remind them that a lone destroyer is a dead destroyer when flung into a position where it can be spotted and focused.  And then tell em to get their lazy sodding butts forward and provide gun fire support if they want the cap.  Remember ranked battles are most likely going to run with 7 ship teams so every ship is valuable and you may find yourself as the only DD on the team many times especially as the season goes on.  DD's are not going to be popular this season due to the effects of Radar and air (the min maxers will be calling you a noob and telling you to uninstall.. Ignore them.. crap like that is a dead sure sign of a real lack of maturity, judgement and observation)  There are few ships capable of insta killing other ships consistantly.  DD's a tend to be one of those ships.  Another piece of advice I will extent is DO NOT ALPHA (ie fire all your torps burn the TRB and fire another spread)  being able to send 16 torps down range looks scary but the side effect is your high and dry on torps for the next 100 seconds which is a very long time in a fight that only lasts 1200 seconds max!.  Stagger them.. one torpedo launcher per target.  Spread the joy, and cause chaos.  Force them out of their comfort zone, make sure they don't get to do what they want to do un-apposed!  If you can get off to one side so you can sling torps across their advance great, but dont count on being able to do it..  Most of your torp shots are going to be zero aspect on the bow so spend a little time getting used to taking that kind of shot and if you've several targets in close together consider using a wide spread.. the more ships that are taking evasive action to avoid your torps are that many more players distracted from their shooting and movement.  Whats more it the opposing team may very well be totally un aware this is happening..  Real military types call this "Friction" and nothing creates this better in world of warships then a well handled DD.  Don't worry about getting kills..  The only IMPORTANT stat in ranked battles is winning.  Kills belong to the team.  Make sure your team gets most of the kills in a match.

 

DO what DD's do best and the Harekaze does especially will.. Go Make A Mess!

[Warlord_Deadeye_Pete]

sorry about the typos.. typing this up at 3 in the morning because I'm having trouble sleeping.. 

 

And a shout out to Little White Mouse who pointed out to us all long ago that "conventional" DD builds are just that.  It's only when your willing to step outside the box of every one elses' thinking that you get to shine.   Just remember that when you go for un conventional, your going to have to develop tactics that work for it.. Play smart!

[AnimaL21]

3 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

I'll give you mine.  This build works well with my rather aggressive style of play.. and a little luck of course!

 

Commander Skills: [19 point] Preventive maintenance (1), Adrenaline Rush (2), Last Stand (2), Survivability Expert (3), Superintendent (3), Inertial Fused High Explosive (4) Radio Position Finding (4)

This would be a rough build for me, but why not TAE instead of SI?  Seems it might be more useful to reload faster and give up that TRB charge given the rest of the build.  You could even earn it back with yamamoto if you first blood. 

[Nachoo31]

5 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

I'll give you mine.  This build works well with my rather aggressive style of play.. and a little luck of course!

 

Harekaze 4-10 (100mm guns)

Upgrades

slot 1, Magazine Mod 1

slot 2 , Engine Boost Mod 1 (special, engine boost lasts 150% of normal duration)

slot 3,  AA Guns Mod 2 

slot 4, Propulsion Mod 2

slot 5, Concealment Mod 1

 

Consumables; premiuma ll, DC, TRB, EB.. No Smoke!

 

Commander Skills: [19 point] Preventive maintenance (1), Adrenaline Rush (2), Last Stand (2), Survivability Expert (3), Superintendent (3), Inertial Fused High Explosive (4) Radio Position Finding (4)

 

Whys and where for's, of less then usuall Upgrades;  Slot 3 would be where one would normally put Aiming Systems Mod 1 but I decided against this.  for just the more then a little bit of extra AA rating which mostly effects the 100mm DP guns.  The main guns are aren't even 10k range and dispersion is not an issue though the slower training torpedo's could be a handicap.  On the other hand if your in a position to have to snap shoot torps in an IJN DD you've all ready fouled up!

 

Commander skill whys and where fors.  Where things get dicy is in the 3 and 4 point skills.  Notice I did not take concealment expert. Even without Concealment expert my surface detect is still only a mear 6Km.  With RPF anyone that I cannot see I will still know they are there, and that's good 'nuff.  SE ebcause 2,800 additional HP may well save ones butt in a pinch.  Ifhe because 100mm guns.. same problems as the Akizuki with 2 less barrals and shorter range.. nope IFHE on the 4-10 hull is an absolute must.  Now I may drop superintendent and the extra consumables and take either Demolition Expert or Basic Firing training.  Now I want to buff my main gun ROF and AAA or do I want to set more fires?   Decisions decisions!  Most likely I'll drop it for the Basic Firing Training as it improves two stats for the ship.  I haven't quite made up my mind on that.    I will be running premium consumables (faster reload, extra charges) anyway and I only end up using them all once in 100 matches so Superintendent may not be the best back for my buck on DD set up for any sort of competitive play

 

Harekaze is not a "super" ship by any means but she can be darn solid and I have had some pretty awesome matches in it.  The guns without the aiming module are still VERY accurate (2.o sigma i assume or better.. the shells tend to group very tightly when they get to the target)  I'm running a slightly better the 60% hit rate in mine which is not only outstanding but reflects a lot of time focused on improving my aim and target movement prediction.. though that's not that difficult with these guns high muzzle velocity.. They go where you tell them too.  Other DD's do NOT like getting in guns fights with this ship as her ROF tends to be half again faster then theirs as it is.  If your thinking and switch to AP on close in broadside DD's and aim low you'll tear them apart in very short order.. and leave em sitting with engines and rudder out while you either polosh them off or leave them for the cruisers and BB's to finish off.  Just remember at any angle over 45% on target switch to the HE as the AP starts shattering at that point.  (AP Normalization on this ship utterly stinks.. pretty sure we only get to use the shells the Army rejected.  The 10cm/65 was the primary Imperial Army AAA field piece and even found limited use in the Anti Tank role where it reportedly did very very very well..)

 

A note on ranked/team play for all players.   Last supremacy league season was tier 8 and this player was in a bronze team that went 8-4 for the season.  I'm not bragging here, it's to qualify my next few statements with real experience.  I ran a Kagero pretty much exclusively and ran it No smoke and pretty much played every single match my team was in for the season.  I did very well.  The extra torpedo's were a god send any number of times and allowed ships to be hit crippled or killed that other wise would not have been.  Running no smoke also forced me to pay attention to target distances, bearing and aspect. I swear I felt more like a fighter pilot at times then a ship captain with the level of situational awareness I was having to maintain..  I was constantly comparing what RPF was showing me as the closest target and what was in front of me and managed more then once to blind fire torpedo's into the path of a  concealed DD taking them out!  The other reason I chose to go no smoke is issues with the raw amount of radar out there and of course arcraft.  Unless yur going wide out away from the main body of the team stay at NO MORE THEN 5 Km from friendly ships.  There's a reason for this.. Harakaze AA is OK, but if a CV want you, he will have you, so stay under the AA umbrella of bigger ships to give you that extra bit of protection from strike aircraft.  In ranked/team battles with carriers your job is NOT spotting, your job is being a hunter killer.

It's what your best at.  If your team gives you crap about no going for the cap remind them that a lone destroyer is a dead destroyer when flung into a position where it can be spotted and focused.  And then tell em to get their lazy sodding butts forward and provide gun fire support if they want the cap.  Remember ranked battles are most likely going to run with 7 ship teams so every ship is valuable and you may find yourself as the only DD on the team many times especially as the season goes on.  DD's are not going to be popular this season due to the effects of Radar and air (the min maxers will be calling you a noob and telling you to uninstall.. Ignore them.. crap like that is a dead sure sign of a real lack of maturity, judgement and observation)  There are few ships capable of insta killing other ships consistantly.  DD's a tend to be one of those ships.  Another piece of advice I will extent is DO NOT ALPHA (ie fire all your torps burn the TRB and fire another spread)  being able to send 16 torps down range looks scary but the side effect is your high and dry on torps for the next 100 seconds which is a very long time in a fight that only lasts 1200 seconds max!.  Stagger them.. one torpedo launcher per target.  Spread the joy, and cause chaos.  Force them out of their comfort zone, make sure they don't get to do what they want to do un-apposed!  If you can get off to one side so you can sling torps across their advance great, but dont count on being able to do it..  Most of your torp shots are going to be zero aspect on the bow so spend a little time getting used to taking that kind of shot and if you've several targets in close together consider using a wide spread.. the more ships that are taking evasive action to avoid your torps are that many more players distracted from their shooting and movement.  Whats more it the opposing team may very well be totally un aware this is happening..  Real military types call this "Friction" and nothing creates this better in world of warships then a well handled DD.  Don't worry about getting kills..  The only IMPORTANT stat in ranked battles is winning.  Kills belong to the team.  Make sure your team gets most of the kills in a match.

 

DO what DD's do best and the Harekaze does especially will.. Go Make A Mess!

[Nachoo31]

Running this ship, I don't need to respec skills, I have 19 point captains are different in IJN DDs lol.

[Warlord_Deadeye_Pete]

6 hours ago, AnimaL21 said:

This would be a rough build for me, but why not TAE instead of SI?  Seems it might be more useful to reload faster and give up that TRB charge given the rest of the build.  You could even earn it back with yamamoto if you first blood. 

It's an option, but the real reason is I've worked hard to make this build work in competitive play.  (and I did have to learn how to do some thing different.. THAT was painful.  But once I did learn.. oh yea.. "it's on baby!" )  

TAE only reduces torpedo reload time by 10!% and in the case of the Harekaze, takes it down to 90 seconds.  Thats just not sufficient of a gain for me any way. where as the 2800 HP gain from SI may well make the difference between staying in the fight after damage or being sunk out right.  Wunning TRB instead of smoke gives you the extra firepower.  Also bear in mind that you rarely are ready to fire on a target once your torps are up and ready to go.  So the 10 second reduction just isn't going to make that much of a "consistant" difference if your not around to fire those torps! 

 

It's really all about making sure you have sufficient to get the job done.  Competative play is way different then normal play. you've only 7 players per side, and staying alive to deal damage and be a threat in being is just as important as actually sinking opposing ships.  Once your dead you no longer have an additional effect on the fight.  That doesn't mean avoiding risk.. My Harekaze build tends to be right around 7 Km from opposing ships.. in other words by warships standards I'm right into their grill!  Ideally they never see me, but they see my torpedo's contantly!  And the torpedo's are what keep them locked in and reacting and not charging and taking co-ordinated action.  The whole point is to steal from the other team their ability to react and hold the initiative in a fight.  World of warships in any sort of competitive play is not about sinking ships.. that's just process.  The real game is all about controlling the battle space.  Control the space and the ships kills will happen followed shortly by a victory for the match.   

 

Play cagey, keeopa good distance but not to far away.. avoid using your guns unless your either out of options or have all the advantages. If yer under fire get out of spotting range (if you can.. not always a sure thing) and once your unspotted turn around and re-enguage.  Remind 'em your still there, and still a threat.  Oh and by the way Pan Asian DD's. you see 'em you kill 'em either kill them your self or get the team to kill them.  The radar they pack may be short ranged but it more then sufficient to spot you before you spot them.  Don't be to surprised to see 2-3 or more radar equipped ships per match.  Know the radar ranges and what ships can mount the radar extender.  Those are the ships that you need to either kill, or arrange to be killed because they can and will utterly ruin yer day.  And Radar is why I don't bother with smoke because smoke provides absolutely no defense once your RADAR'd.  So not packing smoke benefits you by forcing you to change up your mind set  and also allows you to NOT advertise your possible position by laying smoke.  There not even a temptation!  Can't use what you don't have!

 

This is what 3 seasons of Supremacy League play have taught me abut a competitive world of warships play.  Trust me they were painfully hard lessons.  Competitive play is much more conservative in many ways from  random battle play, but at the same time, indecisive play will cost you the match.   Teams that go full defensive early on in the match are most likely going to loose, badly.   If yur playing a DD and your team wont move up and fight, PULL back.  Maybe you'll get lucky.  But dont sacrifice your ship if there is no payoff.  You will get stuck with teams that simply do not fight well or smart.  Be ready to go be a hearo. Harekaze can do this but it's still a fragile small ship.

 

[poeticmotion]

14 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

I'll give you mine.  This build works well with my rather aggressive style of play.. and a little luck of course!

 

Harekaze 4-10 (100mm guns)

Upgrades

slot 1, Magazine Mod 1

slot 2 , Engine Boost Mod 1 (special, engine boost lasts 150% of normal duration)

slot 3,  AA Guns Mod 2 

slot 4, Propulsion Mod 2

slot 5, Concealment Mod 1

 

Consumables; premiuma ll, DC, TRB, EB.. No Smoke!

 

Commander Skills: [19 point] Preventive maintenance (1), Adrenaline Rush (2), Last Stand (2), Survivability Expert (3), Superintendent (3), Inertial Fused High Explosive (4) Radio Position Finding (4)

 

Whys and where for's, of less then usuall Upgrades;  Slot 3 would be where one would normally put Aiming Systems Mod 1 but I decided against this.  for just the more then a little bit of extra AA rating which mostly effects the 100mm DP guns.  The main guns are aren't even 10k range and dispersion is not an issue though the slower training torpedo's could be a handicap.  On the other hand if your in a position to have to snap shoot torps in an IJN DD you've all ready fouled up!

 

Commander skill whys and where fors.  Where things get dicy is in the 3 and 4 point skills.  Notice I did not take concealment expert. Even without Concealment expert my surface detect is still only a mear 6Km.  With RPF anyone that I cannot see I will still know they are there, and that's good 'nuff.  SE ebcause 2,800 additional HP may well save ones butt in a pinch.  Ifhe because 100mm guns.. same problems as the Akizuki with 2 less barrals and shorter range.. nope IFHE on the 4-10 hull is an absolute must.  Now I may drop superintendent and the extra consumables and take either Demolition Expert or Basic Firing training.  Now I want to buff my main gun ROF and AAA or do I want to set more fires?   Decisions decisions!  Most likely I'll drop it for the Basic Firing Training as it improves two stats for the ship.  I haven't quite made up my mind on that.    I will be running premium consumables (faster reload, extra charges) anyway and I only end up using them all once in 100 matches so Superintendent may not be the best back for my buck on DD set up for any sort of competitive play

This is absolutely one of the worst destroyer build philosophies I've ever heard of for either random or ranked meta and I hope I see you on the opposing team in ranked because you'd be a detriment to the team you are on. 

Dropping CE for RPF on a torpedo boat is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard of. There is no way to defend that.  I mean, I would argue strongly for smoke over TRB in a competitive meta even with the smoke firing detect changes, and I think most would agree, but it's arguable. I would argue against SE on most DDs (although I do run it on a couple) but it's arguable. But if you can find anyone who wins more games than they lose agreeing with you that running RPF instead of CE is a smart idea, I'll be amazed. Just no.

You do you, boo, but I urge any less experienced players reading this forum to think carefully before following this guy's advice, as it is simply sound and fury, signifying nothing. 

[poeticmotion]

1 hour ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

It's an option, but the real reason is I've worked hard to make this build work in competitive play.  (and I did have to learn how to do some thing different.. THAT was painful.  But once I did learn.. oh yea.. "it's on baby!" )  

TAE only reduces torpedo reload time by 10!% and in the case of the Harekaze, takes it down to 90 seconds.  Thats just not sufficient of a gain for me any way. where as the 2800 HP gain from SI may well make the difference between staying in the fight after damage or being sunk out right.  Wunning TRB instead of smoke gives you the extra firepower.  Also bear in mind that you rarely are ready to fire on a target once your torps are up and ready to go.  So the 10 second reduction just isn't going to make that much of a "consistant" difference if your not around to fire those torps! 

 

It's really all about making sure you have sufficient to get the job done.  Competative play is way different then normal play. you've only 7 players per side, and staying alive to deal damage and be a threat in being is just as important as actually sinking opposing ships.  Once your dead you no longer have an additional effect on the fight.  That doesn't mean avoiding risk.. My Harekaze build tends to be right around 7 Km from opposing ships.. in other words by warships standards I'm right into their grill!  Ideally they never see me, but they see my torpedo's contantly!  And the torpedo's are what keep them locked in and reacting and not charging and taking co-ordinated action.  The whole point is to steal from the other team their ability to react and hold the initiative in a fight.  World of warships in any sort of competitive play is not about sinking ships.. that's just process.  The real game is all about controlling the battle space.  Control the space and the ships kills will happen followed shortly by a victory for the match.   

 

Play cagey, keeopa good distance but not to far away.. avoid using your guns unless your either out of options or have all the advantages. If yer under fire get out of spotting range (if you can.. not always a sure thing) and once your unspotted turn around and re-enguage.  Remind 'em your still there, and still a threat.  Oh and by the way Pan Asian DD's. you see 'em you kill 'em either kill them your self or get the team to kill them.  The radar they pack may be short ranged but it more then sufficient to spot you before you spot them.  Don't be to surprised to see 2-3 or more radar equipped ships per match.  Know the radar ranges and what ships can mount the radar extender.  Those are the ships that you need to either kill, or arrange to be killed because they can and will utterly ruin yer day.  And Radar is why I don't bother with smoke because smoke provides absolutely no defense once your RADAR'd.  So not packing smoke benefits you by forcing you to change up your mind set  and also allows you to NOT advertise your possible position by laying smoke.  There not even a temptation!  Can't use what you don't have!

 

This is what 3 seasons of Supremacy League play have taught me abut a competitive world of warships play.  Trust me they were painfully hard lessons.  Competitive play is much more conservative in many ways from  random battle play, but at the same time, indecisive play will cost you the match.   Teams that go full defensive early on in the match are most likely going to loose, badly.   If yur playing a DD and your team wont move up and fight, PULL back.  Maybe you'll get lucky.  But dont sacrifice your ship if there is no payoff.  You will get stuck with teams that simply do not fight well or smart.  Be ready to go be a hearo. Harekaze can do this but it's still a fragile small ship.

 

Dude, you have a 48% win rate in Harekaze with 20k average dmg per game. 20K. That's about 2/3 of what the server average damage is (27K) . You're strongly implying that you are good in the ship, and that you're strong in competitive play, when your stats don't back that up. I don't want to statshame you, and I readily admit I'm no unicum player,  I just think it's a bit ludicrous for you to be saying 'these are all the lessons I've learned from competitive play' when you've played a TOTAL of 12 games in ranked in a DD (Fubuki, season 7) and your random battles stats are so terrible in Harekaze. Obviously, if you played in supremacy league I don't see those numbers, but I doubt they'd be enough better than your numbers in random to justify your presenting yourself as an authority on Harekaze builds. 

Once again, you do you. But I just want to make it clear to others who might think your advice here is good that your build is objectively terrible, and that your stats are bad enough to erase any credibility you might have in recommending such an unorthodox build. 

[Warlord_Deadeye_Pete]

Sun Tzu Warrior Citadel Nation went 8-4 last season.    Thats was the team I was on.   Really upset some people that we played so well with such  "crap" players.  That is my competitive play win rate.  That is the only stat that matters in competitive play.  a High win rate shows that your able to be a team player.    My random battle stats mean nothing in the context of ranked battles.  Either way we'll know by the end of the season now won't we?

Feel free to stat shame me all you want.     I'll be happy to toss you some numbers you cant shame.

 

Anyway this has been fun but I've spent entirely to much time today in the forums and not in matches.  And it's almost 8 pm.. off to play!

[poeticmotion]

19 minutes ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

Sun Tzu Warrior Citadel Nation went 8-4 last season.    Thats was the team I was on.   Really upset some people that we played so well with such  "crap" players.  That is my competitive play win rate.  That is the only stat that matters in competitive play.  a High win rate shows that your able to be a team player.    My random battle stats mean nothing in the context of ranked battles.  Either way we'll know by the end of the season now won't we?

Feel free to stat shame me all you want.     I'll be happy to toss you some numbers you cant shame.

 

Anyway this has been fun but I've spent entirely to much time today in the forums and not in matches.  And it's almost 8 pm.. off to play!

OK. That tells me nothing about your individual performance, and if you did well with that build, you got lucky or you got carried. I bent over backwards to point out that I wasn't statshaming you, but if you take it that way, well, data don't lie. 

I'll be in Benson or Edinburgh, maybe with a bit of NorCar or Akizuki thrown in depending on how meta shakes out. See you out there, look forward to the easier wins if you're on the other side. 

[l1nv5]

5 hours ago, poeticmotion said:

OK. That tells me nothing about your individual performance, and if you did well with that build, you got lucky or you got carried. I bent over backwards to point out that I wasn't statshaming you, but if you take it that way, well, data don't lie. 

I'll be in Benson or Edinburgh, maybe with a bit of NorCar or Akizuki thrown in depending on how meta shakes out. See you out there, look forward to the easier wins if you're on the other side. 

What matters is he played over 500 battles in that ship. Solo queue on a IJN DD is a painful experience and most of the time you end up loosing without contributing much to the game. This, however, is a normal thing as in random battles IJN DDs are worthless. You spot for the team or not/cap for the team or not doesn't matter. Potato teams are still potato. You can spot 2 Neptunes in the middle of the map without smoke, calling target on them 5 times and after 10 minutes, they are still spotted with next to max HP. Plus you don't get rewarded for spotting enemy so it's very hard to distinguish between good IJN DD and crap IJN DD. In ranked battles or clan war though it's a total different species. If your team coordinates well, an IJN DD can spot ships one by one for allies to shoot. In late game, a IJN DD + a CA is more valuable than a CA + CL + BB because the IJN DD can keep the 3 spotted the whole time while the CA sit behind island and spam HE. Imagine this in early game with more than 1 CA and some BBs to join. Harekaze is a dark horse for this rank season imo as it packs both TRB and decent defensive guns. I wouldn't drop CE for RPF though I understand the idea of having 6.0km detection against Benson, Loyang, Z23, Ognevoi with roughly 5.8km while you have pretty comparable guns to them. I might try dropping CE to see how it goes but still the Harekaze is low in HP pool, already using TRB so dropping CE might be a huge risk.

Though if you are using Harekaze, Yugumo or Kagero, it's strongly advised to drop the smoke in all situations. Smoke is not a team player tool anymore and it is not even good for self-defense due to hydro and radar. If you use smoke, you are just a worse off Benson or Fletcher with less HP pool, slow guns and easy to dodge torps. TRB is what set you apart, use it! My shima now often end games with 4 smokes unused as well, if TRB are released, it would be the first thing I put on. Maybe TRB spot change to DW torp? So you get to throw 30 torps in the water but 15 of it is DW torp. Might be a good idea!

About guns, agreed with him, don't ever shoot your guns with the intention to wear an enemy down by yourself. Even with Harekaze guns, I wouldn't do that. Don't even think of smoke up to use those guns either. If you are so free, go spot enemies or get into those caps, let the job for those who has stronger DPM guns to do.

[l1nv5]

11 hours ago, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

Sun Tzu Warrior Citadel Nation went 8-4 last season.    Thats was the team I was on.   Really upset some people that we played so well with such  "crap" players.  That is my competitive play win rate.  That is the only stat that matters in competitive play.  a High win rate shows that your able to be a team player.    My random battle stats mean nothing in the context of ranked battles.  Either way we'll know by the end of the season now won't we?

Feel free to stat shame me all you want.     I'll be happy to toss you some numbers you cant shame.

 

Anyway this has been fun but I've spent entirely to much time today in the forums and not in matches.  And it's almost 8 pm.. off to play!

Have to say it's the best build ever (or kind of a refreshment from my usual Yugumo experience) Harekaze has the best japanese guns if specced right and together with the torps which I know how to make it works, this harekaze is a monster. Kind of a Khaba + shima experience, just perfect. You don't need that 5.4km stealth and 10sec faster torp reload, really. The guns being usable totally make up for it and more. Drop the smoke, get TRB, because full YOLO!

1st: PM

2nd: Last stand + EM

3rd: SE + BFT

4th: IFHE + AFT 11.3km range is totally worth it!

Holy crap now I know how driving a VMF Khabarovsk feels like, plus shima torp experience! @UrPeaceKeeper maybe I need to use my guns on you ;)

[Uber_Ghost]

On 12/21/2017 at 5:43 AM, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

I'll give you mine.  This build works well with my rather aggressive style of play.. and a little luck of course!

 

Harekaze 4-10 (100mm guns)

Upgrades

slot 1, Magazine Mod 1

slot 2 , Engine Boost Mod 1 (special, engine boost lasts 150% of normal duration)

slot 3,  AA Guns Mod 2 

slot 4, Propulsion Mod 2

slot 5, Concealment Mod 1

 

Consumables; premiuma ll, DC, TRB, EB.. No Smoke!

 

Commander Skills: [19 point] Preventive maintenance (1), Adrenaline Rush (2), Last Stand (2), Survivability Expert (3), Superintendent (3), Inertial Fused High Explosive (4) Radio Position Finding (4)

Man...that is a scary build.  Giving up the Harekaze's best in tier concealment paired with that low HP pool is certainly unconventional.  If you made it work...kudos to you.  Regardless, I'll certainly mull that over.  As is, I kinda want to see how many CV's are in my ranked tier before I give up smoke.  Thanks for the earnest response.

[Uber_Ghost]

18 hours ago, poeticmotion said:

I mean, I would argue strongly for smoke over TRB in a competitive meta even with the smoke firing detect changes, and I think most would agree, but it's arguable. I would argue against SE on most DDs (although I do run it on a couple) but it's arguable. 

 

Are you saying that you would not run SE on the Harekaze?  It's such a pitiful HP pool.  Without RPF, one could find themselves in a 2 on 1 and SE might be the difference between death and barely living.  What skill would you rather have?

My initial build with the B hull hull is:

PM, LS, AR, SE, SI, IFHE, CE.

I was kinda weighing the pro's/con's of simply giving up IFHE and rolling with RPF for optimum ninja.  But, since I'm going to start conservatively with smoke, IFHE seems more logical.  Running RPF with TRB does seem to optimize it's strengths...but that just makes you a stock Kagero...and probably could only outgun a Kagero.

[l1nv5]

37 minutes ago, Uber_Ghost said:

Are you saying that you would not run SE on the Harekaze?  It's such a pitiful HP pool.  Without RPF, one could find themselves in a 2 on 1 and SE might be the difference between death and barely living.  What skill would you rather have?

My initial build with the B hull hull is:

PM, LS, AR, SE, SI, IFHE, CE.

I was kinda weighing the pro's/con's of simply giving up IFHE and rolling with RPF for optimum ninja.  But, since I'm going to start conservatively with smoke, IFHE seems more logical.  Running RPF with TRB does seem to optimize it's strengths...but that just makes you a stock Kagero...and probably could only outgun a Kagero.

If you run TRB you won't need SI. The extra TRB never got any use and harekaze without TRB is a dead harekaze. The best use for smoke is to cloak yourself and run away, which save you from wiggling to dodge the shells but apart from that not much use as you are the sole spotter for the team. I will take CE back and give up AFT as most often I find myself flanking enemy and torp from unexpected angle so CE is critical for that. RPF on ranked battle is definitely a must though.

[Uber_Ghost]

Yep...ran it with CE/RPF with TRB and it worked quite well.  Still deathly afraid of a CV game dropping in...

[Landing_Skipper]

On 12/21/2017 at 11:07 PM, poeticmotion said:

OK. That tells me nothing about your individual performance, and if you did well with that build, you got lucky or you got carried. I bent over backwards to point out that I wasn't statshaming you, but if you take it that way, well, data don't lie. 

I'll be in Benson or Edinburgh, maybe with a bit of NorCar or Akizuki thrown in depending on how meta shakes out. See you out there, look forward to the easier wins if you're on the other side. 

You were “statshaming” and poorly. Do you even own the ship in question?  You haven’t played it in Random battles. Kamikaze R, Clemson and Farragut make up 46% of your DD battles. Tiers 4-6. That might explain why you don’t think Survivability Expert is a valuable skill. The formula is 350 * Tier => added HP.

Poet - I know from firsthand experience that you are a good DD player in Ranked. The OP explicitly presented his ideas as an unconventional approach. Why so disrespectful?  

The Harekaze is a weird little ship. Fun but challenging and not on my list for Ranked; however, the OP presented an interesting approach.  It’s fun to read about a radical build with a clear explanation of the thinking behind it. 

[Destroyer_KuroshioKai]

16 hours ago, Uber_Ghost said:

Yep...ran it with CE/RPF with TRB and it worked quite well.  Still deathly afraid of a CV game dropping in...

What planes?  I had 4-5 games last night with CVs which equaled to about 16% of my total ranked games so far.  Its not just about CVs, but being able to shoot down spotter planes in seconds helps keep the enemy blind and is valuable in a ship that is going to be close to the enemy.

I dont understand the desire for RPF when 100mm Harekaze out spots anything it cant chew up.  Two DDs?  Smoke up.  Radar present means you just watch your positioning until you know where they are at which all DDs should be doing anyways. 

I would rather buff combat capabilities of my ships and focus on taking and keeping the caps.

[SkyRail]

2 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

What planes?  I had 4-5 games last night with CVs which equaled to about 16% of my total ranked games so far.  Its not just about CVs, but being able to shoot down spotter planes in seconds helps keep the enemy blind and is valuable in a ship that is going to be close to the enemy.

I dont understand the desire for RPF when 100mm Harekaze out spots anything it cant chew up.  Two DDs?  Smoke up.  Radar present means you just watch your positioning until you know where they are at which all DDs should be doing anyways. 

I would rather buff combat capabilities of my ships and focus on taking and keeping the caps.

I have the same thought. RPF doesn't benifit harekaze much when you outspot everything other than another Harekaze / Kagero.

I'd rather get capt. trait that benifit combat capability / survivalbility

99k in ranked battle, feel great. melted a benson in the early game gave my team huge advantage.

[Warlord_Deadeye_Pete]

All right!  Yesterday was a little rugged up down up down.. over all my Harekaze is doing well and I have progressed from rank 17 this am to rank 14..

Here's the snap shot from warships today (Note Harekaze) and is of course the current ranked season.  So far not to shabby and a number of the loosing fights today I was top of the board so didn't loose a star.  

[Warlord_Deadeye_Pete]

and went and did 2 more battles.  Had a client crash with restart on the last.  10 min in to the last match (heartbreak!).  4 v 6 them in the better position.  I didn't have many options.  

 

*much salt, use imagination*

Ending the night at rank 15, prolly dropped that WTR down to 1000 to 1100.  So disgusted I don't even wanna look it up right now.    Going to have to tighten up a bit, but the build is performing as expected.   It's not a bad start to the season.   

[l1nv5]

On 12/24/2017 at 7:39 AM, SkyRail said:

I have the same thought. RPF doesn't benifit harekaze much when you outspot everything other than another Harekaze / Kagero.

I'd rather get capt. trait that benifit combat capability / survivalbility

99k in ranked battle, feel great. melted a benson in the early game gave my team huge advantage.

Harekaze is a damn strong ship with guns. Makes me adjust a lot after playing ranked matches and go back to my Yugumo. I realized I shoot more often than not on the Yugumo and that's caused me killed several times. At rank 8 now and still counting. RPF is nice to have but not entirely needed, I switched out for BFT and AR. Still running TRB but highly consider smoke now at higher rank. It's quite hard to dodge focused fire shells at these ranks.

[AnimaL21]

On 12/21/2017 at 7:07 PM, TL_Warlord_Roff said:

It's an option, but the real reason is I've worked hard to make this build work in competitive play.  (and I did have to learn how to do some thing different.. THAT was painful.  But once I did learn.. oh yea.. "it's on baby!" )  

TAE only reduces torpedo reload time by 10!% and in the case of the Harekaze, takes it down to 90 seconds.  Thats just not sufficient of a gain for me any way. where as the 2800 HP gain from SI may well make the difference between staying in the fight after damage or being sunk out right.  Wunning TRB instead of smoke gives you the extra firepower.  Also bear in mind that you rarely are ready to fire on a target once your torps are up and ready to go.  So the 10 second reduction just isn't going to make that much of a "consistant" difference if your not around to fire those torps! 

 

It's really all about making sure you have sufficient to get the job done.  Competative play is way different then normal play. you've only 7 players per side, and staying alive to deal damage and be a threat in being is just as important as actually sinking opposing ships.  Once your dead you no longer have an additional effect on the fight.  That doesn't mean avoiding risk.. My Harekaze build tends to be right around 7 Km from opposing ships.. in other words by warships standards I'm right into their grill!  Ideally they never see me, but they see my torpedo's contantly!  And the torpedo's are what keep them locked in and reacting and not charging and taking co-ordinated action.  The whole point is to steal from the other team their ability to react and hold the initiative in a fight.  World of warships in any sort of competitive play is not about sinking ships.. that's just process.  The real game is all about controlling the battle space.  Control the space and the ships kills will happen followed shortly by a victory for the match.   

 

Play cagey, keeopa good distance but not to far away.. avoid using your guns unless your either out of options or have all the advantages. If yer under fire get out of spotting range (if you can.. not always a sure thing) and once your unspotted turn around and re-enguage.  Remind 'em your still there, and still a threat.  Oh and by the way Pan Asian DD's. you see 'em you kill 'em either kill them your self or get the team to kill them.  The radar they pack may be short ranged but it more then sufficient to spot you before you spot them.  Don't be to surprised to see 2-3 or more radar equipped ships per match.  Know the radar ranges and what ships can mount the radar extender.  Those are the ships that you need to either kill, or arrange to be killed because they can and will utterly ruin yer day.  And Radar is why I don't bother with smoke because smoke provides absolutely no defense once your RADAR'd.  So not packing smoke benefits you by forcing you to change up your mind set  and also allows you to NOT advertise your possible position by laying smoke.  There not even a temptation!  Can't use what you don't have!

 

This is what 3 seasons of Supremacy League play have taught me abut a competitive world of warships play.  Trust me they were painfully hard lessons.  Competitive play is much more conservative in many ways from  random battle play, but at the same time, indecisive play will cost you the match.   Teams that go full defensive early on in the match are most likely going to loose, badly.   If yur playing a DD and your team wont move up and fight, PULL back.  Maybe you'll get lucky.  But dont sacrifice your ship if there is no payoff.  You will get stuck with teams that simply do not fight well or smart.  Be ready to go be a hearo. Harekaze can do this but it's still a fragile small ship.

 

You wrote a 4 paragraph rebuttal to something I didn't even ask lol.  I said, why not drop SI, not SE. You don't need those extra consumable charges.   I would bet 20% of the games you could get them back if you run yamamoto by blind torping caps for the first blood award.   Something you would likely be doing anyways with a build like this? 

 

The health is definitely useful though.  No argument there. 

 

I did try a similar build to this, but with TAE.  It worked well in a ranked match much to my surprise, though I did feel like it was more luck than anything I was able to torp 2 dd's in their smoke and get around the back side of their push undetected despite 3 radar ships. Truly a rare game, lol.