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Red_Tornado_Striker

Background Flags for Pan-Asian ships need to be corrected

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What I must emphasize at first:

For those who are ignorant of history: Get out of this thread and fool around at somewhere else. You don't qualify to react to this topic. This discussion is not for ignorants.

==================================

Many have talked about the golden dragon flag of Pan-Asian ships. I was among them, too.

I've followed the 6.14 release post, telling that the dragon flag was not correct. Since most (with a few exceptions) of these "Pan-Asian" ships belonged to the Republic of China (ROC), the correct flag should be "bright sun in blue sky with a total red land", same as the flag of Taiwan, ROC, today. Luckily, the background picture then in the tech tree scene was correct, though the flag on the ship was not. Unluckily, the next update replaced the correct background flag with the same dragon flag, which is wrong. Same mistakes also exist in backgrounds of other Asian ships.

The dragon reminds the symbol on the flag of the Qing Dynasty of later Imperial China, not Republic of China. If Pan-Asia implied the Qing Empire, the ships should have been "Dingyuan", "Pingyuan". etc.

I'd like to suggest that the flags on ROC ships be corrected: "bright sun in blue sky with a total red land". Similarly, flags of other Asian countries should also be corrected.

Sorry for having included Chinese ships as examples only in the original post 

5a3a753d72299_warshippanasiabgintro.jpg.ee3256b1c7850a239ca984b9b324273f.jpg

figure 1: example of ROC ship. The description says that it was transferred to ROC but the flag behind the ship remain a dragon (龍 pronunciation: loong).

5a3a74b80b6b8_warshippanasiabgtechtree.thumb.jpg.92e9086644b7c2c03845c3b6ff9dd314.jpg

figure 2: correct flag in background. Sorry for the typo in this picture. Should be "Pan-Asian" instead of "Pan-sian".

5a3a74ea5be01_righttowrong.thumb.jpg.7f8b9f2f3bf037e4e4636a6eea81b566.jpg

figure 3: the then correct flag in background has now been replaced with the incorrect one.

5a51cedb64c8b_Koreanship.thumb.jpg.a00e3aa611392803116bfa3da6532c3b.jpg

figure 4: same mistake appears with the flag of Korean ship.

 

Edited by Red_Tornado_Striker
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1. This issue has been brought up many times, but Wargaming simply can't do it without getting into a serious *expletive deleted* with China. The fact that they even tried to put the ROC flag in at all is already incredibly brave of them. (or incredibly stupid)

 

2. This thread will be locked very soon. I doubt it'll last more than an hour or two.

 

3. According to this (http://steamcommunity.com/app/552990/discussions/0/3183345000083057521/) official announcement, you will be able to change the flag soon, although I won't be at all surprised if you are replacing the totally not PRC flag with other generic flags.

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Agh not this again...

WG has already stated that this is only temporary, they will get a move on to change it when they bother to.

The correct flags were on Anshan and on Loyang, there's no reason why they can't do it, they will eventually change it!

And I hate to break it to you, but the majority of the player base DOESN'T CARE.

Edited by The_first_harbinger

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They can't use the correct flags without stirring up a crap-storm, due to the whole China x Taiwan thing. And rather than excluding only one flag and keeping the rest, they've elected to change all PA flags to something non-threatening for everyone. I.E, generic dragon flag.   

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Well goddamnit, don't take out my Korea flag now!

 

Seriously, I don't see what's wrong with the rest of the flags.  WeeGee, why did you remove the other Pan Asia flags for non ROC/PRC nations?

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The Communists Overlords will not allow the Republic of China be acknowledged, even out here in the land of the free.

But unlike the Communists, we don't support censorship.

Lh4pbz4.gif

Edited by Sventex

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6 hours ago, Red_Tornado_Striker said:

Many have talked about the golden dragon flag of Pan-Asian ships. I was among them, too.

I've followed the 6.14 release post, telling that the dragon flag was not correct. Since most (with a few exceptions) of these "Pan-Asian" ships belonged to the Republic of China (ROC), the correct flag should be "bright sun in blue sky with a total red land", same as the flag of Taiwan, ROC, today. Luckily, the background picture then in the tech tree scene was correct, though the flag on the ship was not. Unluckily, the next update replaced the correct background flag with the same dragon flag, which is wrong.

The dragon reminds the symbol on the flag of the Qing Dynasty of later Imperial China, not Republic of China. If Pan-Asia implied the Qing Empire, the ships should have been "Dingyuan", "Pingyuan". etc.

I'd like to suggest that the flags on ROC ships be corrected: "bright sun in blue sky with a total red land".

5a3a753d72299_warshippanasiabgintro.jpg.ee3256b1c7850a239ca984b9b324273f.jpg

figure 1: example of ROC ship. The description says that it was transferred to ROC but the flag behind the ship remain a dragon (龍 pronunciation: loong).

5a3a74b80b6b8_warshippanasiabgtechtree.thumb.jpg.92e9086644b7c2c03845c3b6ff9dd314.jpg

figure 2: correct flag in background. Sorry for the typo in this picture. Should be "Pan-Asian" instead of "Pan-sian".

5a3a74ea5be01_righttowrong.thumb.jpg.7f8b9f2f3bf037e4e4636a6eea81b566.jpg

figure 3: the then correct flag in background has now been replaced with the incorrect one.

For those who are ignorant of history: Get out of this thread and fool around at somewhere else. You don't qualify to react to this topic.

You have my full support, but you have to remember that after Pres. Clinton introduced the ultimate PC after his dalliance with a staffer and obama tried to destroy free speech in favor of PC (and kissing ch***se butt) that for WG to tell the truth really could get them caught up in legal wrangles that would bust them. It is sad, but there it is.

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On 12/20/2017 at 10:56 PM, warpath_33 said:

1. This issue has been brought up many times, but Wargaming simply can't do it without getting into a serious *expletive deleted* with China. The fact that they even tried to put the ROC flag in at all is already incredibly brave of them. (or incredibly stupid)

 

2. This thread will be locked very soon. I doubt it'll last more than an hour or two.

 

3. According to this (http://steamcommunity.com/app/552990/discussions/0/3183345000083057521/) official announcement, you will be able to change the flag soon, although I won't be at all surprised if you are replacing the totally not PRC flag with other generic flags.

Learn to say something solid or shut up. It's none of your business to consider if a thread is locked.

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On 12/20/2017 at 10:58 PM, The_first_harbinger said:

Agh not this again...

WG has already stated that this is only temporary, they will get a move on to change it when they bother to.

The correct flags were on Anshan and on Loyang, there's no reason why they can't do it, they will eventually change it!

And I hate to break it to you, but the majority of the player base DOESN'T CARE.

I've already told: "For those who are ignorant of history: Get out of this thread and fool around at somewhere else. You don't qualify to react to this topic. "

I know ignorant players won't care. My suggestions are for the intelligent ones, not ignorant ones.

Edited by Red_Tornado_Striker

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5 hours ago, Red_Tornado_Striker said:

I've already told: "For those who are ignorant of history: Get out of this thread and fool around at somewhere else. You don't qualify to react to this topic. "

I know ignorant players won't care. My suggestions are for the intelligent ones, not ignorant ones.

There's a significant difference. Ignorance has nothing going to do whether if someone has to care.

Part of my lineage traces back to that area and that era, my family branches split into two, and the history, the future of those regions matters dearly about me. 

But I don't care here. Arguing about pixels on old boats in this game will not help in any measure by any means of history. If someone argues with me about the nationalities of the boat, I'll do my best to vindicate the truth, but if someone like you make a fuss about it, I'll say, it's just a game. Developed by Belorussians. 

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21 hours ago, The_first_harbinger said:

There's a significant difference. Ignorance has nothing going to do whether if someone has to care.

Part of my lineage traces back to that area and that era, my family branches split into two, and the history, the future of those regions matters dearly about me. 

But I don't care here. Arguing about pixels on old boats in this game will not help in any measure by any means of history. If someone argues with me about the nationalities of the boat, I'll do my best to vindicate the truth, but if someone like you make a fuss about it, I'll say, it's just a game. Developed by Belorussians. 

Yeah. Cowards never have the courage to admit that the reason they fail to care is their ignorance.

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You know what baffles me?  In World of Tanks I've had the Emblem of the Republic of China on my T-7 Combat Car for almost a year now, I even have Chinese inscription "Always remember the Motherland - take our lands back" on it, and this is all allowed, but the flag of the ROC is somehow too far in World of Warships?  What the heck is going on here?

 

VTdjyq0.jpg

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On 12/20/2017 at 8:43 AM, Red_Tornado_Striker said:

What I must emphasize at first:

For those who are ignorant of history: Get out of this thread and fool around at somewhere else. You don't qualify to react to this topic. This discussion is not for ignorants.

==================================

Many have talked about the golden dragon flag of Pan-Asian ships. I was among them, too.

I've followed the 6.14 release post, telling that the dragon flag was not correct. Since most (with a few exceptions) of these "Pan-Asian" ships belonged to the Republic of China (ROC), the correct flag should be "bright sun in blue sky with a total red land", same as the flag of Taiwan, ROC, today. Luckily, the background picture then in the tech tree scene was correct, though the flag on the ship was not. Unluckily, the next update replaced the correct background flag with the same dragon flag, which is wrong. Same mistakes also exist in backgrounds of other Asian ships.

The dragon reminds the symbol on the flag of the Qing Dynasty of later Imperial China, not Republic of China. If Pan-Asia implied the Qing Empire, the ships should have been "Dingyuan", "Pingyuan". etc.

I'd like to suggest that the flags on ROC ships be corrected: "bright sun in blue sky with a total red land". Similarly, flags of other Asian countries should also be corrected.

Sorry for having included Chinese ships as examples only in the original post 

5a3a753d72299_warshippanasiabgintro.jpg.ee3256b1c7850a239ca984b9b324273f.jpg

figure 1: example of ROC ship. The description says that it was transferred to ROC but the flag behind the ship remain a dragon (龍 pronunciation: loong).

5a3a74b80b6b8_warshippanasiabgtechtree.thumb.jpg.92e9086644b7c2c03845c3b6ff9dd314.jpg

figure 2: correct flag in background. Sorry for the typo in this picture. Should be "Pan-Asian" instead of "Pan-sian".

5a3a74ea5be01_righttowrong.thumb.jpg.7f8b9f2f3bf037e4e4636a6eea81b566.jpg

figure 3: the then correct flag in background has now been replaced with the incorrect one.

5a51cedb64c8b_Koreanship.thumb.jpg.a00e3aa611392803116bfa3da6532c3b.jpg

figure 4: same mistake appears with the flag of Korean ship.

 

I think it is fine. Cool flag for all ships.

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On 1/8/2018 at 5:04 AM, Red_Tornado_Striker said:

Yeah. Cowards never have the courage to admit that the reason they fail to care is their ignorance.

Oh, get off your high horse and stop hiding your attitude behind a false veil of historical accuracy. It's unbecoming. Just admit that you believe that anyone who fails to share your opinion on this controversial issue is in the wrong. 

On 1/8/2018 at 6:03 AM, Sventex said:

You know what baffles me?  In World of Tanks I've had the Emblem of the Republic of China on my T-7 Combat Car for almost a year now, I even have Chinese inscription "Always remember the Motherland - take our lands back" on it, and this is all allowed, but the flag of the ROC is somehow too far in World of Warships?  What the heck is going on here?

Their formal headquarters is in Cyprus. Cyrus, despite being part of the EU, doesn't have the same level of international protection for its companies that the US, UK,  France or Russia could. The emblems have been in WoT for years now, back when WG was in their original headquarters in Minsk, and mostly likely fell under some level of agreement Belarus and Russia had with China. Maybe China complained and Russia told them WG was under their protection and to stuff it. It's possible WG hadn't extended to China yet and it later just fell through the cracks. Really, who knows the exact reasons? It should also be noted that WoT emblems are much less...obtrusive (for lack of a proper descriptor) than WoWS flags are. 


@Red_Tornado_StrikerChina is a major economic power and WG wants to access the Chinese market. Since the PRC firmly maintains the "One China" policy, as a company, it's in WG's interest to tread lightly around the issue so the PRC, which firmly maintains control of which international companies are allowed to operate in their country. Even if it was just on the NA server, the PRC might see it as WG taking the "wrong" side in the one china debate (they're notably finicky about anything which even might acknowledge Taiwan as a separate ROC), and pull their access to the Chinese market.

I wish we got the right historical flags, the dragon flags are kinda just...meh. But I completely understand WG's decision to side-step a political hotbed in favor of economic benefit. They're a for-profit corporation, and shouldn't be expected to weigh in on politics (nor indeed, should they, but that's another thing altogether).

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"Most of these ships were built before the 1950s.  And according to the introductions..."  Quoting you're little blue script in the picture.

The Republic of China did in fact exist from 1911 to 1949, and was known collectively as China.  It wasn't until after the civil war and the formation of Formosa (Taiwan) in 1949, that China took "People's..." and Taiwan unofficially took "Republic of China".  Before engaging in debate about the independent status of the nation, it's important to note that really only the Taiwanese themselves take this position.  The UN, China, or even the US government maintains there is "one true China" and that Taiwan is a part of China; this is evident by the fact that America does not have an embassy in Taiwan (instead it's labeled an "Insititute", operating more like a non-profit organization than governmental).

*I Lived in Taiwan from '87-'92.  Challenge my ignorance...

You're taking in-game information to narrate your opinion that other in-game information is not accurate.  Despite the fact that WoWS has already stated in so many words that Pan-Asian ships are under one banner because they're not enough ships for any one nation to fill out a tier.

Using your in-game information - a ship transferred to the Republic of China in 1947, would be China, not Taiwan.  If if said it was transferred after October 10, 1949 to the "Republic of China"; then it would be, Taiwan.

---------------------------------

Now, the Southern Dragon (Myoko mission reward ship), has no national flag at all.  Not even the pan-Asian banner, which is ironic, given her Captain is literally named "Southern Dragon King".  I'm assuming WG did not want to put an IJN flag on a PanAsian ship, despite it being a Myoko, but PanAsia did not exist when they rolled out the ship, and it's now just an oversite?

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