How to Chung Mu (Tier IX Pan Asian DD)

[Kongo_Pride]

When the Pan Asian DD line was announced, I was very skeptical.  From all appearances, we were getting another U.S. DD line with a few minor tweaks.  Not to mention, this would be the premier of the Deep-Water torpedoes.  Many on the forums and other areas argued that the whole line would be inferior and situational at best.  To me, this was going to be another grind on already played out destroyer lines.  Well, sufficive to say, I was greatly mistaken, and I can say that the Pan Asian DD line is unique enough to make it more enjoyable than I anticipated that it would be.  Even more so, the top tier DDs can be fun to play, and can and will often carry a battle.

 

Early Game:  Unlike its cousin the Fletcher, I rarely go into a cap at the beginning of the game.  Instead, I use my stealth to get into a torpedo lane (usually around a flank) and try to go after the big fish, the one’s backing up their destroyer going into a cap.  There are two reasons I am not keen on entering a cap in the first five minutes of the game.  First, in a knife fight with another destroyer, the best you can hope for from your torpedoes; “laugh the other guy to death…funny man.”  That said, you do have decent guns.  I will come back to those.  The other reason you do not get into a cap is because when you do fire your torpedoes, which are your most precious asset, you want them to have an impact on the game.  What sort of impact?  Well if you fire them through a cap trafficked by a DD, the impact will be a short scare for a DD and then everyone else behind them, turning to avoid the incoming deluge of deep water torpedoes.  I always try to send my torps at oncoming enemies…their speed and that of the torpedo…cut the time to react in half.  If you fire them from an edge, usually not trafficked from a DD, you could send someone packing back to port rather quickly.  Now a critical thinking question, can a Destroyer contest a cap without ever entering it and only having Deep Water Torpedoes?  I would argue yes, but you must know what you are doing.  If a DD, a CL, and 2 BBs are pushing a cap, you can effectively neutralize the enemy threat by taking out “the backfield” with your torpedoes.  Once this is done, the cruiser will be friendless…and ruthlessly targeted.  The DD…having no friends will flee.  The Chung Mu promotes a reverse ideology on who to target first, but can have the same devastating effect early in the match.

 

Attached you will find maps to help you with opening tactics.  They all have a common theme...do not enter the cap.

 

Mid-Game:  This is where I consider caps, map movement, and where is the enemy concentrating.  One battleship weaving about is a waste of ammo, two or more sailing towards a general objective is an opportunity.  Make the most of your torpedoes.  They will make or break the damage you deal in the game as well as help control objectives.  This is also the time, you should really consider grabbing caps.  You have dealt a rather solid amount of damage to the battlewagons on the enemy team and or cruisers.  They have likely folded on the flank.  Go in and contest the cap, now supported by your fleet, which can push because you have the concealment to spot the enemy DD and the cruisers to melt him once spotted.  One on one knife fights are not recommended unless you know what you are doing and have more health than the opponent (no matter the DD).  As a DD without backup, pushing into a DD with backup is very disconcerting.  Now, back to those guns.  You have fletcher guns, and those have a pretty solid performance record.  Know when to bring them into play, and when to let an enemy pass.  A destroyer inside of 7.5km and closing on your position is fair game.  A DD turning away or sailing parallel at that range or greater, hold your fire.  Also, be sure you can smoke up and continue to fire into the enemy destroyer as it approaches (especially if other allies are scouting.)  One of the tricks I like to use is to not smoke, until they fire their guns.  In doing so, they are blooming and giving away their position.  This lets you continue to pummel them from smoke…all the while staying in cover.

 

Late-Game:  With few ships remaining and great stealth, you can help to push in on the enemy.  Your deep-water torps finishing late game heroics from battleships who sniped for most of the game.  You must still be cautious of any remaining cruisers or destroyers.  If you see them on your map and in your area, kite away.  There is no reason to give up a close match because you thought your concealment meant invincibility from a Khaba and a Des Moines Radar.  As fewer and fewer ships remain, you can have a great impact in balancing the field.  That full health battleship eats three to five of your torpedoes and the enemy comeback plan is now sabotaged.

 

Strengths:

Deep Water Torpedoes:  Your torpedoes are NOT Fletcher torpedoes.  They travel .5km farther (it matters – Des Moines and other cruiser Radar although Russian Cruisers will still get to you).  They are also harder to see, by .6km.  At .8km, your target pretty much gets to say, %$#@!!!, before eating some torpedoes.  And that is always satisfying.

Smoke Screen:  One of the coolest and most unique features of this line.  I think it really is what makes the line stand out.  The smoke screen lasts for 27 seconds as you drag it along…either while you retreat, shield allies, or all the above.  I love this.  It makes you very hard to torpedo and predict.  An unpredictable target is often a lot harder to kill.

Main Battery:  Fletcher guns.  Yeah!  These things can shred a lot of DDs, although Russian DDs will always be a threat and should only engage them from the safety of smoke or if there is no other option remaining.

Stealth:  5.7km.  It matters, that .1km, you render the enemy DD faster than they render you (Fletcher, Gearing, etc.)  That is almost always going to lead to a first shot.

 

Weaknesses:

Anti-Aircraft:  It sucks, pressing P alleviates you from having to get detected that much sooner.  I do use it situationally, but for the most part, my AA remains in the off position.

Deep Water Torpedoes:  If you are a knife fighter, this ship will be a problem.  Furthermore, your torpedoes will do diddly in helping give you an edge in a knife fight.

Destroyer Meta:  Currently, there are a lot of DDs in queue.  If you see four or more DDs on an enemy team, your efforts just became that much more difficult.

Utility:  Not as useful against DDs and limited AA against CVs.  This leaves you more selective in your targeting priorities. 

 

Captain Skills:  The following skills are shown in order of priority;

 

1.  Priority Target (1 point):  Knowing how many guns are against you…good idea of when to tuck tail and run!

2.  Last Stand (2 points):  Steering, Propulsion a MUST have.

3.  Survivability Expert (3 points):  3,150 health is a nice chunk.  Gives you 20,250 total.  I like this.

4.  Concealment Expert (4 points):  Gets you to the 5.7km detection.  Nice.

5.  Torpedo Armament Expert (3 points):  -10% to those Deep-Water Torps reload time…makes you more lethal faster.

6.  Basic Firing Training (3 points):  When you get into that knife fight, have that much more of a faster rate of fire.

7.  Adrenaline Rush (2 points):  The more damage you take, the nastier you become.  Who wouldn’t take this skill?  Now some may want it sooner, but this is the route I took, and it worked out.

8.  Preventative Maintenance (1 point):  -30% to the module destruction.  Just makes a lot of sense for a destroyer with thinly armored turrets and torpedo tubes.

 

Ship Modules:

 

1.  Main Armaments Modification 1:  Protect your turrets and your torpedo tubes.  Keep your lethality in the fight.

2.  Propulsion Modification 1:  Engines are important to a DDs survival.

3.  Smoke Generator Modification 1 or Aiming Systems Modification 1:  I used the Smoke Generator Modification, that 30 seconds of smoke screen is nice when supporting a fleet.  However, if you are lacking in the mod, go with Aiming Systems Modification 1 as it is beneficial to your torpedo tubes and gun accuracy.

4.  Propulsion Modification 2:  Being able to speed up just a bit has saved me from many of potential torpedo deaths while moving in my smoke.

5.  Concealment System Modification 1:  Critical for making your ship viable in sneaking up on those pesky Battleships, and sending them back to port.

6.  Torpedo Tubes Modification 3:  A reduction to your most lethal weapon system, a must.  The time reduction is critical for getting you to destroy more enemies more quickly and get them out of the battle faster.

 

Signal Flags:  I would set signal flags in the order of priority as set below;

 

1.  Juliet Whiskey Unaone:  The +15% to flooding almost guarantees that no matter where the enemy ship takes the torpedo, there will be a flood.

2.  Juliet Charlie:  If you are using certain signals, it is important that you protect your investment.  Ensuring your ship does not detonate seems like a good starting place.

3.  Sierra Mike:  +5 percent to your speed as I have said many times before, can be the difference maker between outrunning a radar cruiser or getting pummeled to death.  With the amount of hydro and radar out there, I just assume, never leave port without this gem.

4.  November Foxtrot:  A 5 percent reduction in getting to your smoke charges is a nice perk.  Especially given the already short duration between cooldowns.  If the enemy has no radar, this can be brutal on a flank.

5.  Victor Lima:  More increase to flooding, and throw in half a percent to fire chance, just because.

6.  India X-Ray:  More fire chance, that extra +1 total between these two flags may be the difference between setting and not setting a ship on fire after it used damage control from your torpedo strike.

7.  India Yankee:  A -20% reduction to fire can be useful.  Destroyers have the smallest health pool and you have no heal.  Every point of health matters.  I have finished several games with under 1k health, and this little signal was key for survival.

8.  Zulu Hotel or Papa Papa:  As I am always mining elite commander experience or free experience, these both seemed a good fit for this slot.

 

Other Tips:  Going Bow on to the guns of an Edinburgh, Neptune or Minotaur allowing you to deflect most of their shells.  They will usually go broadside to exterminate you (because it’s what they excel at, killing DDs).  When they do…switch to AP and citadel them back…while taking almost no damage in return.  Always a good time frustrating the DD hunter with frontal armor!  This is both effective for the Chung Mu, Yue Yang, Fletcher, and Gearing. 

 

While in a knife fight, you don’t fire your panic torpedoes first.  You just use your guns.  I think a lot of DD drivers could learn from this.  When I am surprised in a knife fight, my guns are my go-to and the torpedoes come out as able and when tactically efficient.  I see too many DD drivers waste 5 to 10 seconds firing their torpedoes in a knife fight and end up losing out on 3-4 salvos of main battery.  This equates to about 4k-7k damage.  They lose the knife fight and go back to port confused why they got wasted…of course, their torpedoes miss, because in a knife fight, the other DD is rarely predictable.

 

Summary:  Much of what I have written here applies to both the Chung Mu and the Yue Yang.  However, some aspects could be applied to the Fletcher and or Gearing, although, they should be played very differently around the caps.  Many people may still feel that the Chung Mu is not competitive and cannot carry a battle.  I would beg to differ.  My experience with the ship over the course of a hundred battles led me to an average of 83k per a game.  Interestingly, my WTR in the Chung Mu is like that of my Fletcher, yet my Fletcher does a lot of things differently.

 

Fine Print:  Your individual results may vary, but this is just a bit of what this ship is capable of;

[tmGrunty]

In my opinion there is no reason to play/keep the Chung Mu IF you don't use Radar on it.

If you want to use smoke just play the Fletcher instead and be able to torp every ship in the game and also have defensive AA against CVs.

The torpedo detection doesn't make that much of a difference compared to Fletcher if you know what you are doing.

 

Radar is what makes the Chung Mu unique and interesting to play. Without that it is just a weaker Fletcher.

 

On a side note: do not manually set your font colour to that black. It makes you post impossible to read for people who use the "dark theme" on the forums.

I attached a screenshot to show you how it looks.

[BlailBlerg]

Great post to start the subforum. I'll be using this. 

[Kongo_Pride]

30 minutes ago, tmGrunty said:

In my opinion there is no reason to play/keep the Chung Mu IF you don't use Radar on it.

If you want to use smoke just play the Fletcher instead and be able to torp every ship in the game and also have defensive AA against CVs.

The torpedo detection doesn't make that much of a difference compared to Fletcher if you know what you are doing.

 

Radar is what makes the Chung Mu unique and interesting to play. Without that it is just a weaker Fletcher.

 

On a side note: do not manually set your font colour to that black. It makes you post impossible to read for people who use the "dark theme" on the forums.

I attached a screenshot to show you how it looks.

I am just offering the masses my opinion on the ship.  Your opinion is yours and you make interesting points.  The fletcher offers more utility, but I would still contend that the Chung Mu offers more for causing mass disruption to the enemy fleets capital ships throughout the match.  

As for font color, black is the standard font is it not?  Is there a place for a different color?  That said, I have never heard of anyone mentioning this on the forums before.  Please elaborate what color works best for you?  Although, I believe most forum posters do not use nearly the tint you do on your screen...which may impede more than just your ability to read my post, but others as well.  Is this the first time you have noticed this issue on the forums?

 

[tmGrunty]

Yes this is the first time I saw that black font on the forums since I switched to dark theme after the recent forum "rework". If you don't make changes to colour then its get's automatically changed to "white" on dark theme which is fine. 

But if you manually set it to black which you must have done either intentionally or by accident it stays black in the dark theme.

Attached another screenshot of how it looks with the "default" colour.

 

And for the topic. I'm not saying that the Chung Mu is bad or anything. It's just the downside of not being able to hit DDs with torps doesn't outweight the lower detection on the torps.

This is especially true for comparing it with Fletcher which already has amazingly good and stealthy torpedoes. Yes you will land more torpedoes with a Chung Mu on average but personally for me it isn't worth the tradeoff.

 

And again your guide is not bad at all. On the contrary I agree with most of what you wrote. It makes all perfect sense for a smoke Chung Mu and that's how you prabably should play if you choose that style. You can't contest caps effectivly early in the game with smoke because of your torps and your strategy surely works.

I just find that you lose a lot of potential this ship has by running smoke and radar is what sets it apart from the Fletcher.

 

[Wulfgarn]

Awesome!

 

Thanks for posting! 

[ksix]

I don't see the point to 7.5km radar without a div mate to coordinate with.

 

Personally I feel this DD line sucks in the current meta (8-10dd per game common) and could really use hydro (lo-yang) or the simple ability to choose reg or deep water torps. I've been rushed many times now simply because you're not a major offensive threat and they don't have to juke all over and can chase/aim carefully since you cant torp in return.

[Landing_Skipper]

32 minutes ago, ksix said:

I don't see the point to 7.5km radar without a div mate to coordinate with.

 

Personally I feel this DD line sucks in the current meta (8-10dd per game common) and could really use hydro (lo-yang) or the simple ability to choose reg or deep water torps. I've been rushed many times now simply because you're not a major offensive threat and they don't have to juke all over and can chase/aim carefully since you cant torp in return.

I agree with the statement about 7.5km radar in place of smoke.

I strongly disagree with "this DD line sucks".

https://replayswows.com/replay/11786#stats

Just like the Germans, the line stinks up to a point (T5) and then gets interesting.  They are different, and you have to play to their strengths.  The OP did a nice job of describing one possible approach.

[10thDF]

Excellent information for me.  Thank you for posting.

[Landing_Skipper]

Chung Mu rocks! 

Contest caps?  Hell yeah. Maybe not capture at first but contest for sure.

Red DDs?  You choose whether to engage them or not.  

Landing 6 torps  into a Missouri’s broadside with virtually zero reaction time  => priceless!

With 10.5 km torps, you want either of the following. Broadside or angling toward you target, or a herd of red ships. Deleting a Neptune then getting a flood on the B.B. behind him is excellent. 

Dont be afraid of using selfish smokes. You have 5 of them after all, and they don’t benefit BBBabies like they used to. 

I love this ship,

[chewonit]

Shamu (and YueYang) is borderline OP right now. Perhaps it's because they are mostly in good hands at this early stage. You would think ships with torps someone people claimed to be crippled should perform worse than their USN counterparts. But DWT used right is terrifyingly powerful. And they still have guns to defend themselves.

[Panzer1113]

Some maps play to the strength of the line, some maps and game modes don't,  ran two games last night, both ended up being Epicenter mode on Tears of the Desert map - high tier games in Epicenter mode are terrible for the Mu, difficult to take part in center battle, too much radar in most cases, yes you can suicide to take out a BB hiding in the islands on the edge of the epicenter ring, but hard to sweep around the edge and you have to be a bit passive in center battle vs other DDs so Reds get an advantage if not another PADD in game...  not sure the Mu is better than a Fletcher all around, not sure that more smokes and less visable torps  are worth not being able to hit DDs.

 

[strykerpsg]

Thanks for the great write up in this newly acquired DD in my fleet. I was indeed struggling on how best to use her and kept trying to cap early on. However, your article makes better sense and I think I will indeed try the smoke versus the radar module, since each time I died, I was in sight of my pursuer and smoke would have greatly help to break contact.

[centarina]

been getting lot of torp hit with T8  HS  .     ships just dont' have time to react to avoid torps.   even cruisers nosed in gets hit.    very nasty torp boat with decent  gunbote .    

[Xanthro]

On 12/19/2017 at 2:34 PM, tmGrunty said:

In my opinion there is no reason to play/keep the Chung Mu IF you don't use Radar on it.

If you want to use smoke just play the Fletcher instead and be able to torp every ship in the game and also have defensive AA against CVs.

The torpedo detection doesn't make that much of a difference compared to Fletcher if you know what you are doing.

 

Radar is what makes the Chung Mu unique and interesting to play. Without that it is just a weaker Fletcher.

 

On a side note: do not manually set your font colour to that black. It makes you post impossible to read for people who use the "dark theme" on the forums.

I attached a screenshot to show you how it looks.

Have you played the Chung Mu? I have both a Fletcher and the Chung Mu, with 19 point captains. The radar on the Chung Mu is a waste. It's short range and short duration, you are not killing anything in that radar duration.

With smoke, you have 5 smokes, with the smoke generator upgrade you make smoke for 39 seconds and it lasts 67 seconds, and even without flags or skills, you have smoke again in 15 seconds. Using the smoke, I can cover paths for my team, or if need be, break contact to retreat, or wait for my torps to reload. Plus, even without any upgrades, the guns are more than enough to inflict some damage from the safety of smoke, adding up to more damage overall. Then, people often make the mistake of putting out the fires, so flooding kills them.

The only thing the Fletcher is better at is capping. It's slower, and easier to see. While the detection says it's 5.7, I've literally never been seen at 5.7. I get spotted at 5.6, and that extra 1.5 speed makes a difference. I can slip behind the other team and launch ninja torps.

Regular Fletcher torps get dodged all the time by moving targets. BBs usually get hit before their rudder shift kicks in. Devastating hits on BBs are common in the Chung Mu.

This is how much better the Chung Mu is, my highest damage with the Chung is almost a 100K more than with the Fletcher.

[tmGrunty]

Yes I have played the Chung Mu and the Yueyang and I still think Radar is the better choice.

I know people like to use smoke to farm ridicullous damage numbers in those ships but that doesn't change the fact that Radar has a higher impact on the game.

[ReddWolfz]

On 12/19/2017 at 10:30 PM, ksix said:

Personally I feel this DD line sucks in the current meta

I disagree with this.   The PA line is very situational true but is very strong.   The Chung Mu and the Yueyang are my most successful DDs by a good margin at their respective tiers.   I run the torpedo speed acceleration capt. skill and while you give up range I feel the added surprise of 71-72 knot low detection torps at 8 and 10k respectively make up for this.   I have had good success running radar (It does have a higher impact on the game when you have the support to take full advantage of it) on both but tend to limit this to when I'm in a division with clan mates and use smoke solo in pub matches.  (simply because in solo pub games I can't count on someone being there to light up what is spotted).

The key is though they look and feel like other boats (In this case like the Fletcher and Gearing) they play completely different IMO.  Not better, just different

[centarina]

I found chungmu to be strong t9 DD.    I do think z46 is better cap fighter, but  this is more fun all around bote.    just finished grinding with 67%WR and 65k avg dmg.     great smoke for helping teammate support you, good torps for shooting at camping bbs or reversing.      fun bote and thinking if I want to keep it .  (I have t10 unlocked)

 

 

[chewonit]

1 hour ago, centarina said:

I found chungmu to be strong t9 DD.    I do think z46 is better cap fighter, but  this is more fun all around bote.    just finished grinding with 67%WR and 65k avg dmg.     great smoke for helping teammate support you, good torps for shooting at camping bbs or reversing.      fun bote and thinking if I want to keep it .  (I have t10 unlocked)

 

 

No. Chung Mu and all other PA DDs are bad. People should steer away from the line. WG should never look into their numbers to consider any nerf. Other DDs should keep shitting on them in battles by charging at them just because they can't torp DD.

/Work with me here. Would you?

[centarina]

yah. it sucks.       avoid it.   terrible cap fighter and easily nuked by radar  

[Landing_Skipper]

Just ignore Chung Mu. It can’t hurt you whether you’re a B.B. or a DD. 

Statistically she’s a bit weaker than Fletcher. However, Chung Mu tops my win rate, damage, and XP with 1.2 kills per game tied with Yugumo. 

[Shadowrigger1]

Chung Mu is a Piece of crapcompared to the Fletcher,   There is not a SINGLE thing that the Chung mu does better than the Fletcher.

[tmGrunty]

It's a better DD hunter because it has Radar and is faster.

[chewonit]

On 2/22/2018 at 9:28 PM, Shadowrigger1 said:

Chung Mu is a Piece of crapcompared to the Fletcher,   There is not a SINGLE thing that the Chung mu does better than the Fletcher.

Exactly! WG please buff!

On 2/23/2018 at 9:16 AM, tmGrunty said:

It's a better DD hunter because it has Radar and is faster.

Better concealment, too.

[centarina]

buff chungmu nao!