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RighteousRhyno

Hipper on Ranked- Yay or Nay?

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One thing nice about Ranked is no uptiering to worry about in a T8 ship. It's also commonly known that the Hipper is a bit subpar when fighting alongside its T9 and T10 comrades, so will playing the Hipper in ranked actually be viable or will the ship sink under a pile of salt? 

 

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Good armor, good torps, decent AA....

The issue I've seen with T8:

Enterprise AP Bombs and Fire.

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Nope. You either bring a Chap/NO for radar, a Atago because she is versatile and has heal or the MK because of firepower and extra smoke. The Hipper/Prinz Eugen isn’t the best choice.

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Atago was going to be my choice for ranked (cruisers), concel, good guns, heal, torps, and FIRE lots and lots of FIRE.

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Hipper class is durable and is immune to getting overmatched by Bismarck and Tirpitz and has the best sonar in it's tier, but the gimmick kinda ends there when you have the lowest DPM of the tier 8 cruisers with your main guns. 

Edited by Arlios

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A good player could rank out in anything; someone last season used the Indianapolis all the way through.

 

Unfortunately, the Hipper/Eugen doesn't bring anything to the table that any of the other Tier 8 Cruisers don't do better in some way. Main issue is her lack of DPM. She has the least amount of guns with one of the worst reloads on top of abysmal HE damage output. Her AA is decent, but again, some other cruisers are better. Her armor is trollish, but she's still a cruiser and you can't rely on that armor to save you.

 

IMO, no, the Hipper is not viable. If you want to use it, go for it. Keep in mind that your team will probably hate you for it.

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Piece of me wants to bring my PE in for the hydro and torps, but the rate of fire, dmp limitations, and just the number of cits it takes, makes me move on to more viable cruisers like Atago ( heal and torps), Chappie (radar, rate of fire, fire starting), Mogomi ( 155s) as better choices

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155mm Mogami.  Good torps and will burn things for days.

Chapayev for fire and radar.

Benson because...well, because it's the Beastly Benson.

Akizuki...me and ole girl get each other.

Tirpitz, because making money and Free XP matters, too.

North Carolina for bow tanking and blapping everything.

Kutuzov for demoralizing the enemy with long range fire and brimstone, and in case the bad guys have planes.

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I'm surprised that no one seems to mention the Charles Martel. She essentially fills the same niche as the Atago, but trades survivability for superior DPM and mobility. Charles Martel has very similar base stats to T9 CAs, but at a lower tier. For a line of fairly unremarkable looking cruisers, the Charles Martel is the hidden gem of the French cruiser line IMO. 

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Nay, but do whatever you deem fun. 

Hipper can perform, she just takes more work.. 

But this is coming from the guy that ran a trashcan at a 73% W/R last ranked T8 season :P So take it with a grain of salt haha.

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3 minutes ago, Cruiser_Chicago said:

I'm surprised that no one seems to mention the Charles Martel. She essentially fills the same niche as the Atago, but trades survivability for superior DPM and mobility. Charles Martel has very similar base stats to T9 CAs, but at a lower tier. For a line of fairly unremarkable looking cruisers, the Charles Martel is the hidden gem of the French cruiser line IMO. 

Good call.  I'm not sure how she'll settle into the Ranked meta, but I liked the Martel grind.  She was one of the highlights of the French cruiser line for me.

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Personally i will be running mine this season. In part because it's 1 out of 3 of my T8 ships and also in part because i love it.

Its DPM might be low but it makes up for it in armor and sheer AP damage (if you aim well). Backed up by damn good AA when coupled with defensive fire.

And as @Cruiser_Chicago mentioned i will also be running my Charles Martel. Suprised it hasn't been mentioned much.

Edited by Saidalphon

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I didn't understand very well about this new ranked season. On the League of Sea Wolves, will we have to play with tier 10 ships ?

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1 minute ago, MaxVladimus said:

I didn't understand very well about this new ranked season. On the League of Sea Wolves, will we have to play with tier 10 ships ?

Come again?  This isn’t clan wars.....

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3 minutes ago, MaxVladimus said:

I didn't understand very well about this new ranked season. On the League of Sea Wolves, will we have to play with tier 10 ships ?

When ya make rank #1

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1 minute ago, gmrbull said:

Come again?  This isn’t clan wars.....

I watched the Update video and Dasha says "fight your way to the League of Sea Wolves and see what you're worth fighting formidable tier 10 ships".

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3 minutes ago, MaxVladimus said:

I watched the Update video and Dasha says "fight your way to the League of Sea Wolves and see what you're worth fighting formidable tier 10 ships".

At Rank 1 its tier 10 only

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3 minutes ago, MaxVladimus said:

I watched the Update video and Dasha says "fight your way to the League of Sea Wolves and see what you're worth fighting formidable tier 10 ships".

Hi Max - that reference is to the special battle mode for players who make it to Rank 1 - you can play in a special league/mode open only to other players who’ve gotten to Rank 1.

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24 minutes ago, Cruiser_Chicago said:

I'm surprised that no one seems to mention the Charles Martel. She essentially fills the same niche as the Atago, but trades survivability for superior DPM and mobility. Charles Martel has very similar base stats to T9 CAs, but at a lower tier. For a line of fairly unremarkable looking cruisers, the Charles Martel is the hidden gem of the French cruiser line IMO. 

First thing I think of with french cruisers is how passive they are. CM is not controlling map or dev striking anything, it slowly chips away at BB while relying on rando teammates to cap and stay alive. No thanks.

Charles Martel will very likely be a favorite of players that pefer to play to keep a star though, since it will be easy to consistently farm damage.

Edited by Six_Four

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Tier 8?  I guess it's the Baltimore and Cleveland for me.

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1 hour ago, RighteousRhyno said:

One thing nice about Ranked is no uptiering to worry about in a T8 ship. It's also commonly known that the Hipper is a bit subpar when fighting alongside its T9 and T10 comrades, so will playing the Hipper in ranked actually be viable or will the ship sink under a pile of salt? 

 

The only Tier VIII Cruisers I'd consider for Ranked would have very special survival gimmicks.

Edinburgh for smoke and repair party.

Kutuzov for smoke and 152mm long range spam.

The other Cruisers feature nothing to save their a$$.  In Tier VI, the BBs ran rampant with only DDs to keep them in check, and DDs cause heavy attrition to each other at the start of the map.  BBs will run wild when the DDs kill each other off.  Cruisers in this tier lack the survival, range, firepower to put down the BBs of this tier reliably.  Tier VI Cruisers struggled mightily in Ranked unless they had very special things:  Super Stealth and Smoke of Perth, Leander.  Expect a similar pattern to hold true for Tier VIII Cruisers.

 

Why?  In Tier VIII, Destroyers and Battleships grow significantly stronger from their previous tiers.  DDs across the board are now very stealthy and they sport strong torpedoes.  Cruisers don't scale at VIII, if you replace most of these VIII Cruisers with VII versions, as is, you wouldn't notice a real difference.  OTOH, the BBs get MUCH tougher, MUCH stronger main batteries, MUCH stronger secondaries, MUCH stronger AA.  21kt USN BBs no longer exist to troll.  Consider the Power of these Battleships.

Tirpitz - 11.3km secondaries, torps, godly protection, speed

Bismarck - 11.3km secondaries, godly protection, hydro, speed

Amagi - Quality IJN BB Gunnery, speed, troll armor

North Carolina - Best high tier BB stealth surpassed only by RN BBs of the tier, 16"/45 guns with American Piercing Shells, fabulous AA

Alabama - Great stealth but NC is stealthier, 16"/45 guns with American Piercing Shells, fabulous AA, short hull, insanely maneuverable

Kii - IJN BB gunnery, speed, AA that surpasses even North Carolina

 

And I know someone is going to say it:  "But Hipper can tank 15" shells!"

Well that's nice and all but from Tier VII on, the standard of BB firepower has always been 406mm/410mm or larger.  At Tier VIII there are a lot of 406-410 guns, stronger and more numerous than what you dealt with at Tier VII.

 

Mark my words.  Tier VIII will be a BB-DD affair, just like it was for Tier VI Ranked.  The Cruisers do not scale with their BB, DD competition, not like the Tier X Cruisers do.  Only Cruisers that have very special survival gimmicks will do well in Tier VIII Ranked.

 

I will also say this:  Be ready for the Tier VIII Wild Cards, the CV Air Assault.

Ever reliable Shokaku.  Specifically expect to see an uptick of AS Shokaku.  AS Spec is played a lot more in Ranked than in Randoms.

Lexington with her revamped spec and possible AP bombs.  This is the Big Test of WG's Revamped USN CV Specs.  Lexi will have only 1 fighter when Shokaku is going to come with 3 fighter units with 12-15 planes total to Lexi's 1 unit with 6-7 planes.

Enterprise.

Graf Zeppelin.

 

Tier VIII CVs was the last, highest tier where you see decent CV activity.  Over the last year we have had Enterprise and Graf Zeppelin arrive, in addition to the current stock of Sexi Lexi and Shokaku Hax.  Feel free to ignore AA if you want.

 

What?  AA?  For Tier VIII Cruisers, the choices are limited for great AA.  Definitely not New Orleans as her AA is short ranged focused and poor for protecting others.   RN CL AA doesn't get strong until Tier IX.  IJN AA is typically atrocious.  The Best AA Cruisers at Tier VIII are Kutuzov and interestingly, Hipper / Prinz Eugen.  The German Cruisers of the tier have far superior AA suites than "Muh National Flavor is AA!" New Orleans and actually reach further out.

 

For the BBs, NC, Alabama, Kii can have fabulous AA, but still need to be careful with their position and not be isolated or air attack.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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1 hour ago, Cruiser_Chicago said:

I'm surprised that no one seems to mention the Charles Martel. She essentially fills the same niche as the Atago, but trades survivability for superior DPM and mobility. Charles Martel has very similar base stats to T9 CAs, but at a lower tier. For a line of fairly unremarkable looking cruisers, the Charles Martel is the hidden gem of the French cruiser line IMO. 

I enjoy player her, in fact re purchased her after getting up to ten and selling her for needed credits for grinding. My fear is The Martel's detectably, the lower the  rank, the better the aim by the reds and always being spotted first could be a big issue. Probably also depends on the maps and island cover, that will also dictate how useful she will be.

I think the IJN crusiers will be the go-to, good stealth, good guns, fires and very useful torps. Hard combo to beat. 

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11 minutes ago, Sweetsie said:

I enjoy player her, in fact re purchased her after getting up to ten and selling her for needed credits for grinding. My fear is The Martel's detectably, the lower the  rank, the better the aim by the reds and always being spotted first could be a big issue. Probably also depends on the maps and island cover, that will also dictate how useful she will be.

I think the IJN crusiers will be the go-to, good stealth, good guns, fires and very useful torps. Hard combo to beat. 

 

My great concern for Atago, despite her being only 1 of 2 Cruisers of the tier with Repair Party, is her gun range is very average.  It's actually right smack in the middle of BB preferred engagement ranges.  She has no smoke.  She is a floating citadel.  Not saying she can't be good, but her parameters to stay alive are very narrow.

 

Given the choice, if I had to choose between Atago and most other Cruisers of the tier, Atago would be a decent one.  It's just going to be harrowing with no smoke and being in the ranges where BBs like to shoot at.  Ranked is going to be a BB-DD affair with the occasional CV showing up to make people go...

Spoiler

zEgQotz.gif

 

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13 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

My great concern for Atago, despite her being only 1 of 2 Cruisers of the tier with Repair Party, is her gun range is very average.  It's actually right smack in the middle of BB preferred engagement ranges.  She has no smoke.  She is a floating citadel.  Not saying she can't be good, but her parameters to stay alive are very narrow.

 

Given the choice, if I had to choose between Atago and most other Cruisers of the tier, Atago would be a decent one.  It's just going to be harrowing with no smoke and being in the ranges where BBs like to shoot at.  Ranked is going to be a BB-DD affair with the occasional CV showing up to make people go...

  Reveal hidden contents

zEgQotz.gif

 

Atago did alright last season, and there hasn't really been any new ships that really threaten her.

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