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Everything wrong with The Last Jedi (SPOILERS)

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Comprehensive rage thread regarding the movie that ruined Star Wars:

 

Spoiler

Massive spoilers.

Technical:
• The Alliance had B-Wing bombers – why replace them with plodding space blimps? Why would you even design ships like that?
• How is one (and the movie establishes that there are many) Dreadnought worth a 0% survival rate of men and materiel in the resistance bombers? Since when is total slaughter acceptable to any good character? (Yeah, and by the end of the movie, what percentage of the Resistance is still around? What’s 5 people out of like 5,000? .001%).
• How do gravity bombs ‘fall’ out of a space bomber? 
• How is it that, 40-something years after the trench run, the Imperial-stand-in-First Order can’t design anti-fighter guns to mount on capital ships? What is the point of even having capital ships when a single fighter can knock out its entire arsenal in one pass?
• Capital ship runs out of fuel – since when?
• Why doesn’t the Resistance admiral wear a uniform? Since when has this been a thing? All previous rebel 'officers' wore insignia of rank. What is this - prom night on the flagship? Oh, look, she died her hair blue, too!
• The movie establishes that Tie Fighters from the First Order can ravage the fleet so badly that the bridge of the main cruiser is destroyed. Why the don’t they finish them off with TIEs, then?
• If the base on Crait is an old mining depot, why does it have a door that can withstand Star Destroyer bombardment (and since when can doors in Star Wars with no shields do that?). Where do the little fighter ships come from? Or the base defenses? What purpose do they have for a mining firm?
• Leia’s space walk. Is she immortal? Does space in star wars now work differently from everywhere else?

Plot Holes:
• If Leia is this strong with the force, and still fighting, why hasn’t she now picked up a lightsaber to kick a little butt? It’s clear that she is nothing less than a force master.
• Being tracked by the First Order – how? Where was the tracking device? Why not just disable it on the Resistance ships instead of running off for 3 days?
• If Crait is within visual distance of the ships - as the film establishes - why wouldn’t the first order just land troops in the base on the off chance that that’s where the resistance was planning to go?
• Crystal foxes. Hyped as a major theme in the film's promotional material. Nope. Not so much.
• Knights of Ren – poof. Storyline killed. The film even claims Kylo left with other students. Where are they?
• R2-D2 sits in the Falcon all movie and does nothing. 
• Poe and Rey hadn’t met before? The novelization established that they did.
• Rey’s parentage. Nevermind!
• Who is Snoke? Nevermind!
• Kylo Ren spends the first movie obsessing about Darth Vader. What happened to that?
• Admiral Ackbar: “Concentrate more fire on that super star dest—“ SUCKED INTO SPACE.
• Captain Phasma? SMOKED! Who cares? Fire pit for her! Boba Fett 2.0!
• Rey mirror scene. What was that? Where did the dark side come from? Was she tempted? Did she learn a lesson? Seems like she just stared in a mirror.
• By the end of the movie, the resistance now = rebellion, for no reason at all.
• ‘Our allies will show up.’ No, they won’t. Oh, okay, Millennium Falcon will rescue all 5 of us remaining in this “army.”
• Poe Dameron: “That guy must have gotten in here somehow – there must be a back entrance!” No, idiot – Luke Force projected. He didn’t come in anywhere. This was really a big ‘**** you’ to the audience.
• Luke showing up to fight Kylo with THE SAME LIGHTSABER KYLO JUST WATCH BLOW UP A ROOM 10 MINUTES BEFORE. Right. Kylo doesn’t notice? Lightsabers are exceedingly personal weapons, and this one belonged to Darth Vader. Kylo was totally fixated on it in the first movie. Shouldn't this have been a dead giveaway to him that something funky was going on?

Thematic:
• Severe problem with not knowing what to do with the Poe Dameron.
• Leia spends half her last movie in a coma, and half doing absolutely nothing. Oh, she blows a door off the bridge.
• Ridiculous, pointless casino arc.
• Casino political jargon about evil arms developers (apparently so evil they’re working for the Resistance, too – but hey! They deserve to get trampled!)
• Luke Skywalker becomes the “legend who faces down the First Order” that kids talk about – pity Luke Skywalker is a @!%*#%!%# who dies in the effort. Rey? Still a nobody. Still nothing. So Luke goes on being the hero (but is dead), and Rey is still in his shadow. Good job!
• Introduction of Benicio Del Toro who is, apparently, the only OTHER guy in the world who can slice a Star Destroyer. But, oh, he’s bad. And now he has his credits and he’s gone. Okay.
• Yoda blasting a tree with lightning. Force ghosts can do that? Massive continuity problems if force ghosts can do anything but talk.
• Luke dying from exhaustion. What a kick in the crotch. THIS is how he goes out?
• Luke hiding from his problems for 10 years. So, the eager farm boy from nowhere who always manned up and tackled problems head on receives as setback as an adult and just rolls over and dies? Good thing he never lost a hand or anything - that would have turned him into a deaf-mute!
• Luke planning to kill a teenager in his sleep because said teenager “might” have had some darkness in him. Oh, but after meeting Darth Vader for all of 10 minutes, Luke was willing to risk his own life, the future of the Jedi, and the fate of the galaxy on a suicide mission to redeem his father. But, hey – lightsaber in the back to my nephew!
• Luke being such a pansy that he doesn’t even show up to fight Kylo Ren, even when the movie established that he had an X-wing in the water on Ach-to.

 

Edited by Battlecruiser_NewZealand
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As a kid I was smitten by Star Wars when it was released in 1977.  I was in awe of that movie.  I was a fan for life.

 

Unfortunately. 

Hey, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were also good.  Everything since has been a disappointment.  Probably because I am not a kid, anymore. Jar Jar Binks was just a kick in the junk.

I haven't read the books or watched the cartoons, so I don't know as much of the 'back stories' as many people do.  If I did I am sure I would have been even more disappointed with Last Jedi.  Some things I liked, some things I really didn't.  Leia surviving getting sucked into space and 'force pulling' herself back on board was a "you gotta be kidding me" moment.  I have to agree with many of your other plot holes and critiques, as well.  But, hey, Star Wars has always been chock full of plot holes.

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Well, a couple things from me...

Spoiler

I would change the opening crawl to...

"The New Republic is in CHAOS!  The capital planet is gone.  Those loyal to the New Order have cut off communications and opened the path for invasion.  General Leia's Resistance forces now stand alone against the First Order Fleet."  As you can't just right off the New Republic armed forces like that.  Really??  Just have them unavailable, and Leia desperate to contact anyone who can help.

Second, Rey is a bit of a Mary Sue.  (Look up the term.  It Rey was a guy, he would be a Gary Sue.)  In order for her to be able to do what she does, they really shouldn't have her be 'just the daughter of some nameless junkers'....  because that defies all logic and reason.  Spending time on Jaqu does not give one highly specialized fighting styles, the instant ability to use force powers, instant excellent flying skills, ETC.  All that takes TRAINING!!  So, maybe a point in the next movie, here is a random theory.

Her 'parents' found in her in a very odd warehouse of the Emperor's.  She wasn't the only one, but the easiest to grab.  She is a clone, one of many.  She has Palpatines DNA mostly, but a mix of a few others (Luke, Vader, other characters maybe).  He didn't want to die, so what if he had a plan to continue his life in a new way.  He might have prepared several 'options' for a new body.  These clones would be programmed with many skills and abilities. 

So that mirror scene would make more sense when asking who her parents are... she has none... and she isn't quite alone...  And explains the strong call to the dark side, her skills and abilities coming out from no where.  Palpatine bought several loot boxes for her :Smile_smile:

For the third movie, what if Supreme Leader Kylo finds that warehouse?  There is a huge can of worms there...

 

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1 hour ago, Battlecruiser_NewZealand said:

Comprehensive rage thread regarding the movie that ruined Star Wars: Oh come on it wasn't that bad

  Hide contents

Technical:
• The Alliance had B-Wing bombers – why replace them with plodding space blimps? Why would you even design ships like that? I would guess that the B-Wings were either unavailable, too expensive, or not heavily enough armored. They might also be running low on effective bomber craft. They are shown to be struggling as is.
• How is one (and the movie establishes that there are many) Dreadnought worth a 0% survival rate of men and materiel in the resistance bombers? Since when is total slaughter acceptable to any good character? (Yeah, and by the end of the movie, what percentage of the Resistance is still around? What’s 5 people out of like 5,000? .001%). As Poe says, they are fleet-killers. It is a significant drain on the First Order's war economy. The morale and publicity boost they get are a gamble which pits the lives of the bomber crews against the help of future recruits. There are losses taken from other sources as well. Leia does reprimand Poe for his actions, since she disagrees with him.
• How do gravity bombs ‘fall’ out of a space bomber? Likely given a push. Artificial gravity for the crew would accelerate the bombs a little, which would then fall without an atmosphere. These would actually be very accurate since a computer using classical physics has all the variables it needs.
• How is it that, 40-something years after the trench run, the Imperial-stand-in-First Order can’t design anti-fighter guns to mount on capital ships? What is the point of even having capital ships when a single fighter can knock out its entire arsenal in one pass? Much like the purpose of a modern carrier, they serve as firepower bases. It's also important to note that Po is an ace, much like Luke once was. TIEs fill the role of point defense as well, just not well against main plot characters.
• Capital ship runs out of fuel – since when? In a futuristic (past) society, the fuel demands for, say, huge lasers and shields, not to mention faster-than-light travel would be immense. Even forms of plasma start to look limited.
• Why doesn’t the Resistance admiral wear a uniform? Since when has this been a thing? All previous rebel 'officers' wore insignia of rank. What is this - prom night on the flagship? Oh, look, she died her hair blue, too! Resistance leaders have always shied away from strict uniform codes. This traces back to Leia and Mon Mothma. It serves to remind them that the resistance is a movement, not just an army since they were once politicians. The blue hair might be a consequence of whatever planet she lived on or diet she had.
• The movie establishes that Tie Fighters from the First Order can ravage the fleet so badly that the bridge of the main cruiser is destroyed. Why the don’t they finish them off with TIEs, then? The cruiser moves to the range where its point-defense systems can't be effectively suppressed. With no shields, small fuel reservoirs, and a low top speed TIES would be a poor choice to attack.
• If the base on Crait is an old mining depot, why does it have a door that can withstand Star Destroyer bombardment (and since when can doors in Star Wars with no shields do that?). Where do the little fighter ships come from? Or the base defenses? What purpose do they have for a mining firm? The base may have been built in a time where threat was possible (read: literally any point in time). The star destroyers never bombard it. The little fighters are likely modified civilian craft, much like snowspeeders from Hoth. If the resources mined there were once valuable enough, security measures seen plausible. There was even potentially a military presence there, which might account for the heavy defenses.
• Leia’s space walk. Is she immortal? Does space in star wars now work differently from everywhere else? Leia is force-sensitive. She uses the force to bring herself back to the ship.

Plot Holes:
• If Leia is this strong with the force, and still fighting, why hasn’t she now picked up a lightsaber to kick a little butt? It’s clear that she is nothing less than a force master. She dislikes violence, and has rejected Luke's offer to learn the art of wielding a saber. Her talents are generally better used in diplomacy, and she is also getting old.
• Being tracked by the First Order – how? Where was the tracking device? Why not just disable it on the Resistance ships instead of running off for 3 days? The tracking system was advanced enough that it could detect mass moving in hyperspace as well. The same way a torpedo cannot disable sonar, the rebel cruiser would be equally helpless. Additionally, the rebels are stalling for time here.
• If Crait is within visual distance of the ships - as the film establishes - why wouldn’t the first order just land troops in the base on the off chance that that’s where the resistance was planning to go? The main fleet was keeping up a bombardment on the rebel cruiser. Given Snoke's personality, it would not surprise me if individual initiative is even more frowned upon than under Vader.
• Crystal foxes. Hyped as a major theme in the film's promotional material. Nope. Not so much. Don't see the issue here, sorry.
• Knights of Ren – poof. Storyline killed. The film even claims Kylo left with other students. Where are they? Potentially being trained by Snoke (RIP)
• R2-D2 sits in the Falcon all movie and does nothing. BB-8 fills the character role quite well. R2-D2 helps to fly the Falcon with Chewbacca as well, taking the place of Han (RIP).
• Poe and Rey hadn’t met before? The novelization established that they did. They have met each other before.
• Rey’s parentage. Nevermind! Ok
• Who is Snoke? Nevermind! Ok
• Kylo Ren spends the first movie obsessing about Darth Vader. What happened to that? He has since matured and stopped trying to follow his grandfather's example. To his mind, he is his own Sith with a unique legacy. His destruction of his mask shows this well.
• Admiral Ackbar: “Concentrate more fire on that super star dest—“ SUCKED INTO SPACE. RIP
• Captain Phasma? SMOKED! Who cares? Fire pit for her! Boba Fett 2.0! RIP
• Rey mirror scene. What was that? Where did the dark side come from? Was she tempted? Did she learn a lesson? Seems like she just stared in a mirror. Rey confronts herself much like Luke in the cave on Dagobah. She was tempted by the dark side, which was present there. Like Luke says, where there is light there is dark.
• By the end of the movie, the resistance now = rebellion, for no reason at all. Unsure of question here
• ‘Our allies will show up.’ No, they won’t. Oh, okay, Millennium Falcon will rescue all 5 of us remaining in this “army.” Their allies are cowed by the might of the First Order. The Falcon is a high-value target and does serve to take fighter pressure off of the survivors.
• Poe Dameron: “That guy must have gotten in here somehow – there must be a back entrance!” No, idiot – Luke Force projected. He didn’t come in anywhere. This was really a big ‘**** you’ to the audience. It served to move the plot along. Poe wouldn't have understood the force or its potential.
• Luke showing up to fight Kylo with THE SAME LIGHTSABER KYLO JUST WATCH BLOW UP A ROOM 10 MINUTES BEFORE. Right. Kylo doesn’t notice? Lightsabers are exceedingly personal weapons, and this one belonged to Darth Vader. Kylo was totally fixated on it in the first movie. Shouldn't this have been a dead giveaway to him that something funky was going on? He was blinded by rage, as evident by his insane drive to obliterate Luke.

Thematic:
• Severe problem with not knowing what to do with the Poe Dameron. He is intended to be reminiscent of Han in the original movies. He doesn't get the force much.
• Leia spends half her last movie in a coma, and half doing absolutely nothing. Oh, she blows a door off the bridge. Other personnel do this. She leads so they aren't shot by Poe.
• Ridiculous, pointless casino arc. This becomes more relevant with the morality of the arms dealers being confronted. It introduces the slicer and develops the relationship between Rose and Finn.
• Casino political jargon about evil arms developers (apparently so evil they’re working for the Resistance, too – but hey! They deserve to get trampled!) It shows the source of the weapons that both sides use.
• Luke Skywalker becomes the “legend who faces down the First Order” that kids talk about – pity Luke Skywalker is a @!%*#%!%# who dies in the effort. Rey? Still a nobody. Still nothing. So Luke goes on being the hero (but is dead), and Rey is still in his shadow. Good job! Rey has yet to accomplish a truly mighty deed like destroying a Death Star, and has yet to really meet the public eye, whereas Luke just builds on his legacy.
• Introduction of Benicio Del Toro who is, apparently, the only OTHER guy in the world who can slice a Star Destroyer. But, oh, he’s bad. And now he has his credits and he’s gone. Okay. Intended to be a workaround for the  real slicer they can't get to. Keep in mind the original guy is only one source's idea, not a comprehensive list of skilled hackers.
• Yoda blasting a tree with lightning. Force ghosts can do that? Massive continuity problems if force ghosts can do anything but talk. Yoda's power with the force is immense, even compared to Luke. This is easily within his power.
• Luke dying from exhaustion. What a kick in the crotch. THIS is how he goes out? Very similar to Yoda.
• Luke hiding from his problems for 10 years. So, the eager farm boy from nowhere who always manned up and tackled problems head on receives as setback as an adult and just rolls over and dies? Good thing he never lost a hand or anything - that would have turned him into a deaf-mute! He is very old (for a human), like Leia and Han were. He expends an enormous amount of physical stamina to save the rebels.
• Luke planning to kill a teenager in his sleep because said teenager “might” have had some darkness in him. Oh, but after meeting Darth Vader for all of 10 minutes, Luke was willing to risk his own life, the future of the Jedi, and the fate of the galaxy on a suicide mission to redeem his father. But, hey – lightsaber in the back to my nephew! Having defeated the Empire, his greatest fear would be a resurgence of the Sith. He also admits his hubris.
• Luke being such a pansy that he doesn’t even show up to fight Kylo Ren, even when the movie established that he had an X-wing in the water on Ach-to. The X-wing would be largely defunct after years underwater. Also, if there is some presence on the island that has to do with the Force, he might have been aided by it. Keep in mind that his goal is to stall, not win.

 

Anyone else see that kid in the end use the force on the broom?

Edited by pewpewpew42
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43 minutes ago, Battlecruiser_NewZealand said:

Comprehensive rage thread regarding the movie that ruined Star Wars:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Massive spoilers.

Technical:
• The Alliance had B-Wing bombers – why replace them with plodding space blimps? Why would you even design ships like that?
• How is one (and the movie establishes that there are many) Dreadnought worth a 0% survival rate of men and materiel in the resistance bombers? Since when is total slaughter acceptable to any good character? (Yeah, and by the end of the movie, what percentage of the Resistance is still around? What’s 5 people out of like 5,000? .001%).
• How do gravity bombs ‘fall’ out of a space bomber? 
• How is it that, 40-something years after the trench run, the Imperial-stand-in-First Order can’t design anti-fighter guns to mount on capital ships? What is the point of even having capital ships when a single fighter can knock out its entire arsenal in one pass?
• Capital ship runs out of fuel – since when?
• Why doesn’t the Resistance admiral wear a uniform? Since when has this been a thing? All previous rebel 'officers' wore insignia of rank. What is this - prom night on the flagship? Oh, look, she died her hair blue, too!
• The movie establishes that Tie Fighters from the First Order can ravage the fleet so badly that the bridge of the main cruiser is destroyed. Why the don’t they finish them off with TIEs, then?
• If the base on Crait is an old mining depot, why does it have a door that can withstand Star Destroyer bombardment (and since when can doors in Star Wars with no shields do that?). Where do the little fighter ships come from? Or the base defenses? What purpose do they have for a mining firm?
• Leia’s space walk. Is she immortal? Does space in star wars now work differently from everywhere else?

Plot Holes:
• If Leia is this strong with the force, and still fighting, why hasn’t she now picked up a lightsaber to kick a little butt? It’s clear that she is nothing less than a force master.
• Being tracked by the First Order – how? Where was the tracking device? Why not just disable it on the Resistance ships instead of running off for 3 days?
• If Crait is within visual distance of the ships - as the film establishes - why wouldn’t the first order just land troops in the base on the off chance that that’s where the resistance was planning to go?
• Crystal foxes. Hyped as a major theme in the film's promotional material. Nope. Not so much.
• Knights of Ren – poof. Storyline killed. The film even claims Kylo left with other students. Where are they?
• R2-D2 sits in the Falcon all movie and does nothing. 
• Poe and Rey hadn’t met before? The novelization established that they did.
• Rey’s parentage. Nevermind!
• Who is Snoke? Nevermind!
• Kylo Ren spends the first movie obsessing about Darth Vader. What happened to that?
• Admiral Ackbar: “Concentrate more fire on that super star dest—“ SUCKED INTO SPACE.
• Captain Phasma? SMOKED! Who cares? Fire pit for her! Boba Fett 2.0!
• Rey mirror scene. What was that? Where did the dark side come from? Was she tempted? Did she learn a lesson? Seems like she just stared in a mirror.
• By the end of the movie, the resistance now = rebellion, for no reason at all.
• ‘Our allies will show up.’ No, they won’t. Oh, okay, Millennium Falcon will rescue all 5 of us remaining in this “army.”
• Poe Dameron: “That guy must have gotten in here somehow – there must be a back entrance!” No, idiot – Luke Force projected. He didn’t come in anywhere. This was really a big ‘**** you’ to the audience.
• Luke showing up to fight Kylo with THE SAME LIGHTSABER KYLO JUST WATCH BLOW UP A ROOM 10 MINUTES BEFORE. Right. Kylo doesn’t notice? Lightsabers are exceedingly personal weapons, and this one belonged to Darth Vader. Kylo was totally fixated on it in the first movie. Shouldn't this have been a dead giveaway to him that something funky was going on?

Thematic:
• Severe problem with not knowing what to do with the Poe Dameron.
• Leia spends half her last movie in a coma, and half doing absolutely nothing. Oh, she blows a door off the bridge.
• Ridiculous, pointless casino arc.
• Casino political jargon about evil arms developers (apparently so evil they’re working for the Resistance, too – but hey! They deserve to get trampled!)
• Luke Skywalker becomes the “legend who faces down the First Order” that kids talk about – pity Luke Skywalker is a @!%*#%!%# who dies in the effort. Rey? Still a nobody. Still nothing. So Luke goes on being the hero (but is dead), and Rey is still in his shadow. Good job!
• Introduction of Benicio Del Toro who is, apparently, the only OTHER guy in the world who can slice a Star Destroyer. But, oh, he’s bad. And now he has his credits and he’s gone. Okay.
• Yoda blasting a tree with lightning. Force ghosts can do that? Massive continuity problems if force ghosts can do anything but talk.
• Luke dying from exhaustion. What a kick in the crotch. THIS is how he goes out?
• Luke hiding from his problems for 10 years. So, the eager farm boy from nowhere who always manned up and tackled problems head on receives as setback as an adult and just rolls over and dies? Good thing he never lost a hand or anything - that would have turned him into a deaf-mute!
• Luke planning to kill a teenager in his sleep because said teenager “might” have had some darkness in him. Oh, but after meeting Darth Vader for all of 10 minutes, Luke was willing to risk his own life, the future of the Jedi, and the fate of the galaxy on a suicide mission to redeem his father. But, hey – lightsaber in the back to my nephew!
• Luke being such a pansy that he doesn’t even show up to fight Kylo Ren, even when the movie established that he had an X-wing in the water on Ach-to.

 

 This sounds like they handed the movie series over to the guys that totally ruined Starship Troopers when they made it into a movie (yes it was a book first by one of my favorite sci-fi authors Robert Anson Heinlein) . If you have not read the book I strongly urge you to as how they mutilated it was truly disgusting (one actor plays three different characters in the book mushed together into one and there is no relationship between Rico and the girl from home other then friendship) . 

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nvm.

I tried to insert my replies into the spoiler box, but all the formatting was lost and then I couldn't open it up to check it out.  So, why bother.  Deleted....

 

Edited by Crucis

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20 minutes ago, FCA_Wichita said:

Well, a couple things from me...

  Hide contents

I would change the opening crawl to...

"The New Republic is in CHAOS!  The capital planet is gone.  Those loyal to the New Order have cut off communications and opened the path for invasion.  General Leia's Resistance forces now stand alone against the First Order Fleet."  As you can't just right off the New Republic armed forces like that.  Really??  Just have them unavailable, and Leia desperate to contact anyone who can help.

Second, Rey is a bit of a Mary Sue.  (Look up the term.  It Rey was a guy, he would be a Gary Sue.)  In order for her to be able to do what she does, they really shouldn't have her be 'just the daughter of some nameless junkers'....  because that defies all logic and reason.  Spending time on Jaqu does not give one highly specialized fighting styles, the instant ability to use force powers, instant excellent flying skills, ETC.  All that takes TRAINING!!  So, maybe a point in the next movie, here is a random theory.

Her 'parents' found in her in a very odd warehouse of the Emperor's.  She wasn't the only one, but the easiest to grab.  She is a clone, one of many.  She has Palpatines DNA mostly, but a mix of a few others (Luke, Vader, other characters maybe).  He didn't want to die, so what if he had a plan to continue his life in a new way.  He might have prepared several 'options' for a new body.  These clones would be programmed with many skills and abilities. 

So that mirror scene would make more sense when asking who her parents are... she has none... and she isn't quite alone...  And explains the strong call to the dark side, her skills and abilities coming out from no where.  Palpatine bought several loot boxes for her :Smile_smile:

For the third movie, what if Supreme Leader Kylo finds that warehouse?  There is a huge can of worms there...

 

FCA, I don't assume that Kylo told the truth about her parents.

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48 minutes ago, FCA_Wichita said:

Well, a couple things from me...

  Hide contents

I would change the opening crawl to...

"The New Republic is in CHAOS!  The capital planet is gone.  Those loyal to the New Order have cut off communications and opened the path for invasion.  General Leia's Resistance forces now stand alone against the First Order Fleet."  As you can't just right off the New Republic armed forces like that.  Really??  Just have them unavailable, and Leia desperate to contact anyone who can help.

Second, Rey is a bit of a Mary Sue.  (Look up the term.  It Rey was a guy, he would be a Gary Sue.)  In order for her to be able to do what she does, they really shouldn't have her be 'just the daughter of some nameless junkers'....  because that defies all logic and reason.  Spending time on Jaqu does not give one highly specialized fighting styles, the instant ability to use force powers, instant excellent flying skills, ETC.  All that takes TRAINING!!  So, maybe a point in the next movie, here is a random theory.

Her 'parents' found in her in a very odd warehouse of the Emperor's.  She wasn't the only one, but the easiest to grab.  She is a clone, one of many.  She has Palpatines DNA mostly, but a mix of a few others (Luke, Vader, other characters maybe).  He didn't want to die, so what if he had a plan to continue his life in a new way.  He might have prepared several 'options' for a new body.  These clones would be programmed with many skills and abilities. 

So that mirror scene would make more sense when asking who her parents are... she has none... and she isn't quite alone...  And explains the strong call to the dark side, her skills and abilities coming out from no where.  Palpatine bought several loot boxes for her :Smile_smile:

For the third movie, what if Supreme Leader Kylo finds that warehouse?  There is a huge can of worms there...

 

Before Disney bought Lucasfilm, the Expanded universe had just this. The Emperor's clone briefly led the Imperial Remnant from Byss.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine

Use ctrl-f and search "But even death was not the end for Palpatine". Scrolling through the huge biography is annoying.

Edited by pewpewpew42

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1 hour ago, Battlecruiser_NewZealand said:

Where do the little fighter ships come from?

Well, you see ... umm ... when a mommy fighter ship and a daddy fighter ship love each other very much .... :Smile_hiding:

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Surprising nobody, they've managed to do more damage to the Star Wars canon in 2 movies that not even the entire prequel trilogy could manage. At least the prequels gave us cool space ships and the chance to see Yoda fight. This trilogy just needs to be burned in a pit like Captain Phasma and be forgotten to the sands of time.

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37 minutes ago, Crucis said:

FCA, I don't assume that Kylo told the truth about her parents.

There is an interesting article that discusses how they came up with Rey's origins:  https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/how-star-wars-the-last-jedi-decided-on-its-answer-about-rey’s-origin/ar-BBGOUq3?ocid=spartandhp.

They gave Johnson, the movie's director, leave to decide.  His reasoning is interesting and actually fairly sound.  The article goes on to say:

As far as whether or not Ben was actually telling Rey — and us — the truth remains to be seen. Johnson says Ben certainly believes that to be the truth, but he also noted that "Episode IX" director J.J. Abrams, who directed "The Force Awakens," is currently working on the script for the final movie in the new trilogy.

Maybe Abrams will shake it up.

Thus, since Johnson decided on the back story for that part, in his mind, Ben believes it.  However, since he does not control what happens in the next movie, Abrams is free to either make it so that Ben was lying or that Ben was unaware of the truth and come up with a completely different direction.

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1 hour ago, Chien_Lu_Anderman said:

 This sounds like they handed the movie series over to the guys that totally ruined Starship Troopers when they made it into a movie (yes it was a book first by one of my favorite sci-fi authors Robert Anson Heinlein) . If you have not read the book I strongly urge you to as how they mutilated it was truly disgusting (one actor plays three different characters in the book mushed together into one and there is no relationship between Rico and the girl from home other then friendship) . 

Starship Troopers is a fantastic movie.  Follows the book pretty closely, even if they come to completely opposite conclusions.

Edited by Sventex

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I have to agree that the movie was pretty disappointing. It wasn't a bad movie as such, but not what Starwars fans wanted or expected. The Phantom Menace (Jar Jar and all) is no longer the worst movie of the franchise.

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1 hour ago, Sventex said:

Starship Troopers is a fantastic movie.  Follows the book pretty closely, even if they come to completely opposite conclusions.

Wat? There is no light infantry in the entire Federation in the book as it is seen as a purposeful waste of fighting men. Both the book and the first movie are great in their own ways.

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1 hour ago, Sventex said:

Starship Troopers is a fantastic movie.  Follows the book pretty closely, even if they come to completely opposite conclusions.

I liked Starship Troopers, such a campy movie and just great fun if you don't take it too seriously. Reminded me of Mars Attacks, just fun entertainment. 

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3 hours ago, Sventex said:

Starship Troopers is a fantastic movie.  Follows the book pretty closely, even if they come to completely opposite conclusions.

 Are you kidding me ?!?  OMG !!!!!  :cap_fainting:

  The aliens are almost nothing like the book . The weapons are DEFINATELY not like in the book . The characters are almost nothing like in the book (like I mentioned in the other post above ; one character in the movie is a combination of three character's in the book) . The ships used by the ' Mobile Infantry " and the society are not like the book .  And where in the book do you see any mention of the stupid fort that they have to walk to . And other things I am to tired to remember right now .

   If you want to see a Robert A. Heinlein book decently transferred to video try and find a copy of " The Puppet Masters " starring Donald Sutherland .

:fish_book:

 

 

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3 hours ago, Omega_Weapon said:

I have to agree that the movie was pretty disappointing. It wasn't a bad movie as such, but not what Starwars fans wanted or expected. The Phantom Menace (Jar Jar and all) is no longer the worst movie of the franchise.

I always thought Attack of the Clones was the worst, simply because the romantic dialogue between Padme and Anakin is so incredibly wooden.

Here's the crucial thing, though: I never felt like the prequels really damaged the original source material. The midichloreans were a ridiculous addition, but after TPM, Lucas promptly de-emphasized them (and the same thing happened with Jar-Jar). And while I thought that Anakin's reasons for falling to the dark side could have been much better conceived, they didn't gnaw at me.

But The Last Jedi is different... TLJ has infected Luke's character. The film's impact is like a cancer, reaching back and corrupting everything he was. Because Luke the hero died, really, as Luke the coward; Luke the "this isn't my responsibility to solve;" Luke, the guy who would sooner (if even for a moment) have murdered Ben in his sleep than sit down and talk with him. Fear and recalcitrance were never elements of his characterization until Rian Johnson - that disgusting, putrid wretch - willed it to be so. And it taints the original trilogy.

Harrison Ford got off easy. He's still a hero who loved his boy. Mark Hamill saw his character utterly obliterated.

Edited by Battlecruiser_NewZealand
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4 hours ago, Chien_Lu_Anderman said:

 Are you kidding me ?!?  OMG !!!!!  :cap_fainting:

  The aliens are almost nothing like the book . The weapons are DEFINATELY not like in the book . The characters are almost nothing like in the book (like I mentioned in the other post above ; one character in the movie is a combination of three character's in the book) . The ships used by the ' Mobile Infantry " and the society are not like the book .  And where in the book do you see any mention of the stupid fort that they have to walk to . And other things I am to tired to remember right now .

   If you want to see a Robert A. Heinlein book decently transferred to video try and find a copy of " The Puppet Masters " starring Donald Sutherland .

:fish_book:

 

 

I thought the point of the book was to showcase Utopian Citizen Service Military Republic, the values of militarism, Social Darwinism, and the argument that civilians don't deserve Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, unless they earned it with service.  Terran Federation and its military was the heart of the books, the bug hunt and power armor was all background.

 

The point of the movie was the criticize the author's "Utopia" with the United Citizen Federation by showing it off.  Verhoeven had grown up under Nazi occupation and knew where all the militarism lead.  Summary execution, jingoism, the silencing of dissenters, the certainty of their superiority and the dehumanization of their enemies.  When only the military can vote, all political issues became pro-military, which results in a never ending war fueled by an industrial military complex.  The bug hunt is drawn more into the foreground (cause hey, it's a movie) but the hints are there, the Federation started this war, they probably bombed their own planet, just the fuel their own war machine that will not be stopped by any of it's "citizens" looking to prove themselves in this Social Darwinist Dystopia.  Sure some people may watch the film for the battle scenes, but the movie is really about living under a Fascist regime and the inescapable indoctrination.

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13 hours ago, pewpewpew42 said:

Before Disney bought Lucasfilm, the Expanded universe had just this. The Emperor's clone briefly led the Imperial Remnant from Byss.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine

Use ctrl-f and search "But even death was not the end for Palpatine". Scrolling through the huge biography is annoying.

I knew of that.  Thus it would be trying to bring more legends into cannon.  They also have a good source for Luke's DNA, and a reason Luke's/Anakin's lightsaber called to Rey some.. hehe.  Also, for a different spin a little, the Dr. Who episode "The Doctor's Daughter" applies well here too.

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Oh, here are some videos that point some stuff out.

The movie got some stuff right, and several things just handled very poorly.

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9 hours ago, Sventex said:

thought the point of the book was to showcase Utopian Citizen Service Military Republic, the values of militarism, Social Darwinism, and the argument that civilians don't deserve Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, unless they earned it with service.  Terran Federation and its military was the heart of the books, the bug hunt and power armor was all background.

 The only thing that civilians did not have in the book that Military veterans got is the right to vote . Active military also did not get to vote . The point being that if you are not willing to put yourself at risk then you did not deserve to have a say in choosing laws and politicians .  The military  is all voluntary service and does not mean you had to be in a combat unit as you could ne a R.E.M.F. or F.O.B.I.T. type of job .

:Smile_honoring:

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36 minutes ago, Chien_Lu_Anderman said:

 The only thing that civilians did not have in the book that Military veterans got is the right to vote . Active military also did not get to vote . The point being that if you are not willing to put yourself at risk then you did not deserve to have a say in choosing laws and politicians .  The military  is all voluntary service and does not mean you had to be in a combat unit as you could ne a R.E.M.F. or F.O.B.I.T. type of job .

:Smile_honoring:

"Ah yes, [life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness]... Life? What 'right' to life has a man who is drowning in the Pacific? The ocean will not hearken to his cries. What 'right' to life has a man who must die to save his children? If he chooses to save his own life, does he do so as a matter of 'right'? If two men are starving and cannibalism is the only alternative to death, which man's right is 'unalienable'? And is it 'right'? As to liberty, the heroes who signed the great document pledged themselves to buy liberty with their lives. Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost. The third 'right'?—the 'pursuit of happiness'? It is indeed unalienable but it is not a right; it is simply a universal condition which tyrants cannot take away nor patriots restore. Cast me into a dungeon, burn me at the stake, crown me king of kings, I can 'pursue happiness' as long as my brain lives—but neither gods nor saints, wise men nor subtle drugs, can ensure that I will catch it." - Lt. Col. Jean V. Dubois

 

If there is no right to life, there is nothing holding the central authority back from eliminating all those who oppose it.  If there is no right to life, the government can choose who can raise a family and who cannot.  Who lives, and who dies.

Liberty is not cheap, and is never free of cost, but neither can it be bought through service.  Is servitude freedom?  It is the antithesis of the concept.  Are liberty loving revolutionaries patriots?  The Terran Federation only sees criminals to be awarded suffering.  To vote in such a society requires the surrendering of liberty, to submit to the oppressive restrictions imposed by military on one's way of life, behavior, and political views.  That is no liberty.

If there is no guarantee of happiness, of prosperity, then the Terran Federation is a land of suffering, of corruption and destruction.  If the needs of the people are merely met, then the Terran Federation need not consider the condition of it's people whom do not have a voice.  The government is not to serve the people but to serve the military.  There can be no disloyalty in paradise, and what is discontentment other then criticism of the Government?  If there is no guarantee of prosperity, there is no incentive to have fair laws.  The Federation only hears the voice of the citizens and thus the civilians will suffer.  

Edited by Sventex

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