The "Secondary Dispersion" Mystery

[Jarod997]

So I'm going through modules and find the "Secondary Battery Modification 2" upgrade (Slot 3) which says "-20% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells". Curious, and because I'm a numbers guy, I go to look up how much of an effect this would be. But, I can't find any indication of what the dispersion is for any secondary armament on any ship I have (in-game). Further, on the WG Wiki, that isn't much help either - no information on what the (stock) dispersion is for SA.

So, for example, the SA for the Arkansas Beta is a 127 mm/51 Mk 7. Surely I think some other boat has a 127 main gun, and the closest I find is the Nicholas which can sport a 127 mm/51 Mk7 mod. 2 (from the wiki) - but because it's a main armament the stats are kinda whacked as compared to a secondary, like the range for one. So if the range is different, the dispersion surely is also different (despite the barrels being the same length, 127/51).

Other items which affect Secondary Dispersion are upgrade3: Artillery Plotting Room 1 (-5%), flag: Mike Yankee Soxisix (-5%), and skill4: Manual Fire Control for Secondary Armaments (-15%) for example (there may be others).

Does anyone have any numbers on what the Secondary Dispersions are?

[Ghostdog1355]

13 minutes ago, Jarod997 said:

Does anyone have any numbers on what the Secondary Dispersions are?

You know now that you mention it I have never seen stats on secondary dispersions either. Now you got me curious also.

[901234]

People on the EU forums has done some work regarding this - jeez do they do all the game mechanic analyses or what - 

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/73542-unified-thread-for-accuracy-dispersion-in-wows/

- several links on there

- I am pretty sure secondaries are there on one of the reddit links 

 

TLDR

there is some function which increases with range - after that is calculated then dispersion reducing factors are applied 

its like: dispersion = Constant * distance + [other constant]

[Snargfargle]

Secondary guns without manual fire control:

 

[Alien_Observer]

Secondary guns WITH manual fire control:

[Jarod997]

1 hour ago, 901234 said:

People on the EU forums has done some work regarding this - jeez do they do all the game mechanic analyses or what - 

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/73542-unified-thread-for-accuracy-dispersion-in-wows/

- several links on there

- I am pretty sure secondaries are there on one of the reddit links 

 

TLDR

there is some function which increases with range - after that is calculated then dispersion reducing factors are applied 

its like: dispersion = Constant * distance + [other constant]

Accepting the graph values for dispersion, then it's constant up to about 3.0 km (we'll also assume this "constant" range is the same for any ship), and again as an example, the Arkansas Beta has a base secondary range of 4.5 km. So yes, dispersion is real - especially if you trick out the secondary range to 6.5 km. *edit* But I don't think that EU post really covered anything on the secondaries specifically; especially what the base dispersion values are.

[bassmasta76]

2 hours ago, Jarod997 said:

despite the barrels being the same length, 51 m).

I'm not an expert on naval artillery, but the "/51" doesn't directly translate to the length of the barrel...  its a measure of caliber which, combined with the bore diameter, determine barrel length.

 

Example - for a 5"/51 gun, the barrel length is 255".  5" x 51 = 255.

 

Similarly, the Iowa class 16" rifles...  16"/50 = 800" long barrel.

 

Just an FYI.

 

B

[Jarod997]

1 hour ago, bassmasta76 said:

I'm not an expert on naval artillery, but the "/51" doesn't directly translate to the length of the barrel...  its a measure of caliber which, combined with the bore diameter, determine barrel length.

Example - for a 5"/51 gun, the barrel length is 255".  5" x 51 = 255.

Similarly, the Iowa class 16" rifles...  16"/50 = 800" long barrel.

Just an FYI.

B

Thanks, I updated my original post. :)

 

That, and I started a Google Sheet with a list of ships which have secondary artillery. It's interesting. Viewers can comment, and please do, as I have some of these ships and the values may not be entirely accurate (if I have equipment/skills/flags etc that change them). I tried to be as "base" as I could. A couple of notes: there are four named views All, Battleships, Aircraft Carriers, and Cruisers; and some ships have two different types of secondary artillery, so just looking at each line in the "Barrels" column may not give an accurate picture.

BTW, if anyone feels they want to contribute let me know. I only had time to add American ships today (I have the Tech Tree mod which lists ALL ships available in-game atm).

 

[bassmasta76]

Jarod997 - I totally neglected to mention that I think your comments were very appropriate... the info is nowhere to be found (as far as I can tell), and could be helpful to know.   There are a lot of things like this that are either in-game and not easily available elsewhere, or are discussed externally and not immediately visible in-game.

For the former, I think Torpedo Visibility should be listed somewhere on the wiki.  In game, If you mouse over a torpedo under the ship details, it gives you info on their visibility.  Unless I'm blind, or it's hidden somewhere, it isn't readily available in the Wiki.  I would think that to be a fairly simple update to make, but the Wiki Editors probably have more important things to do.

Anyway, thanks for compiling the info!

b

[iChase]

3 hours ago, 901234 said:

People on the EU forums has done some work regarding this - jeez do they do all the game mechanic analyses or what - 

https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/73542-unified-thread-for-accuracy-dispersion-in-wows/

- several links on there

- I am pretty sure secondaries are there on one of the reddit links 

 

TLDR

there is some function which increases with range - after that is calculated then dispersion reducing factors are applied 

its like: dispersion = Constant * distance + [other constant]

A whole lot of work was done by myself and LWM from NA. It's just EU had the unified thread, so it came up on all the Google searches :P

[901234]

1 hour ago, iChase said:

A whole lot of work was done by myself and LWM from NA. It's just EU had the unified thread, so it came up on all the Google searches :P

rip in rekt

[Vaidency]

For me the biggest mystery about secondary dispersion is how they manage to be that spectacularly inaccurate at point blank range but never actually hit my own ship.

[TheDreadnought]

5 hours ago, Jarod997 said:

So I'm going through modules and find the "Secondary Battery Modification 2" upgrade (Slot 3) which says "-20% to maximum dispersion of secondary battery shells". Curious, and because I'm a numbers guy, I go to look up how much of an effect this would be. But, I can't find any indication of what the dispersion is for any secondary armament on any ship I have (in-game). Further, on the WG Wiki, that isn't much help either - no information on what the (stock) dispersion is for SA.

So, for example, the SA for the Arkansas Beta is a 127 mm/51 Mk 7. Surely I think some other boat has a 127 main gun, and the closest I find is the Nicholas which can sport a 127 mm/51 Mk7 mod. 2 (from the wiki) - but because it's a main armament the stats are kinda whacked as compared to a secondary, like the range for one. So if the range is different, the dispersion surely is also different (despite the barrels being the same length, 127/51).

Other items which affect Secondary Dispersion are upgrade3: Artillery Plotting Room 1 (-5%), flag: Mike Yankee Soxisix (-5%), and skill4: Manual Fire Control for Secondary Armaments (-15%) for example (there may be others).

Does anyone have any numbers on what the Secondary Dispersions are?

Let me help you out. . .

MFC makes "a lot" of difference at Tier 7+ and makes "Some" difference below that.

The others make "a little" difference regardless of tier.

Ark Beta is one of the few ships below Tier 7 it's worth taking MFC on.