1 Swagbito Members 14 posts 605 battles Report post #1 Posted December 17, 2017 For all of those saying that Conqueror doesn't need a nerf... Granted, this was on the PT server, but this is still ridiculous. 110k damage in fires, of which I got 21! Not to mention I got dreadnought, yet still ended up with more than 60% of my health left! 20171217_154422_PBSB110-Conqueror_38_Canada.wowsreplay 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
7,521 [HINON] RipNuN2 Members 14,340 posts Report post #2 Posted December 17, 2017 One match does not show how something needs to be nerfed or buffed. You have to look at all the statistics amongst the different player groups and servers to make that determination. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 Swagbito Members 14 posts 605 battles Report post #3 Posted December 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said: One match does not show how something needs to be nerfed or buffed. You have to look at all the statistics amongst the different player groups and servers to make that determination. I'm pretty sure that since Conqueror's introduction, it's been statistically the best Tier X battleship in every regard. They 'nerfed' its concealment, but that was pretty pointless. It has 20k more average damage than the closest competitor, Grosser Kurfurst. Its win rate is between 1 and 5% higher depending on the site you choose to check it on. Its fire chance is ridiculous. Even in a Zao, I've never caused 110k damage just in fires. It out spots cruisers, can't even be citadeled, and can still punish anything with AP or HE. I'm not saying it should be nerfed into the ground, but they should tone it down a little. Seriously, I cannot think of one weakness this ship has. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
838 Akeno017 Members 2,238 posts 11,469 battles Report post #4 Posted December 17, 2017 Reasons why you don't balance a ship around an easy to hit citadel but fail to include it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3,640 [WOLF1] pmgaudio Members 9,915 posts 18,626 battles Report post #5 Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Swagbito said: I'm pretty sure that since Conqueror's introduction, it's been statistically the best Tier X battleship in every regard. They 'nerfed' its concealment, but that was pretty pointless. It has 20k more average damage than the closest competitor, Grosser Kurfurst. Its win rate is between 1 and 5% higher depending on the site you choose to check it on. Its fire chance is ridiculous. Even in a Zao, I've never caused 110k damage just in fires. It out spots cruisers, can't even be citadeled, and can still punish anything with AP or HE. I'm not saying it should be nerfed into the ground, but they should tone it down a little. Seriously, I cannot think of one weakness this ship has. everything you just said is wrong.... (including your Zao comment) (you don't have one). unless of course you are going to admit you have a SECOND account which is still against the rules... and it can be Citadel'd... prolly easier than an Omaha... the ship is good at starting fires... but it is easy to take on... get up close, and just rip it up.... it ain't that scary of a ship... I do like seeing them in my game s... I get better at WASD kiting in my Hindy and they do not seem to like getting Pwnd by Cruisers.... so... please... dont copy paste stats on a ship that is too new which means a smaller sample size to all the BBS that have been here for two years... Thanks... I aint afraid of no Conq.... Oh And FYI, it's biggest weakness is the fact that people think it does not have any..and drive it as such... Edited December 17, 2017 by pmgaudio 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 Swagbito Members 14 posts 605 battles Report post #6 Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) On 12/17/2017 at 4:57 PM, pmgaudio said: everything you just said is wrong.... (including your Zao comment) (you don't have one). unless of course you are going to admit you have a SECOND account which is still against the rules... and it can be Citadel'd... prolly easier than an Omaha... the ship is good at starting fires... but it is easy to take on... get up close, and just rip it up.... it ain't that scary of a ship... I do like seeing them in my game s... I get better at WASD kiting in my Hindy and they do not seem to like getting Pwnd by Cruisers.... so... please... dont copy paste stats on a ship that is too new which means a smaller sample size to all the BBS that have been here for two years... Thanks... I aint afraid of no Conq.... Oh And FYI, it's biggest weakness is the fact that people think it does not have any..and drive it as such... There's a thing such as having multiple accounts, so yes, I had a Zao and a Yamato (sold it in frustration a while back). I also have hipper. Getting Hindenburg is a goal. I have never in my life citadeled a Conqueror. At best, I get 15k salvos, then he angles, I can't pen, and I'm he spammed to death (in Yamato). Whether you like it or not, it has no weaknesses. Even if you sail it like an idiot, you will never take a citadel. You can heal back over 50% of you health, and you can point and click he spam anyone to death. DD's aren't a problem if you have a brain and know how to avoid torps, or if you sail with a cruiser. Speaking of cruisers and destroyers, you can one shot destroyers with ease. The devastating strike I had in that game was on the Tier X Pan-Asian destroyer. One salvo of HE, and he was done for. Get up close, you say? Then any chance of citadels is gone. Plus, are you forgetting that it still has 16 inch AP shells? If the captain has a brain, he will own you at any distance. Say what you like, but this ship needs a nerf or two. Edited December 19, 2017 by Swagbito 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 Swagbito Members 14 posts 605 battles Report post #7 Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, pmgaudio said: everything you just said is wrong.... (including your Zao comment) (you don't have one). unless of course you are going to admit you have a SECOND account which is still against the rules... and it can be Citadel'd... prolly easier than an Omaha... the ship is good at starting fires... but it is easy to take on... get up close, and just rip it up.... it ain't that scary of a ship... I do like seeing them in my game s... I get better at WASD kiting in my Hindy and they do not seem to like getting Pwnd by Cruisers.... so... please... dont copy paste stats on a ship that is too new which means a smaller sample size to all the BBS that have been here for two years... Thanks... I aint afraid of no Conq.... Oh And FYI, it's biggest weakness is the fact that people think it does not have any..and drive it as such... Also, you've never played a Tier X battleship on the account you're using right now. If this is your only account, then you don't know just how much more powerful Conqueror is than Yamato, Montana, and Kurfurst. Edited December 17, 2017 by Swagbito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3,640 [WOLF1] pmgaudio Members 9,915 posts 18,626 battles Report post #8 Posted December 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, Swagbito said: Also, you've never played a Tier X battleship on the account you're using right now. If this is your only account, then you don't know just how much more powerful Conqueror is than Yamato, Montana, and Kurfurst. wrong again..... but you dont want to hear anything but CONQUERER IS OP AND EVERYONE ELSE IS MISTAKEN.... no worries... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 Swagbito Members 14 posts 605 battles Report post #9 Posted December 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, pmgaudio said: wrong again..... but you dont want to hear anything but CONQUERER IS OP AND EVERYONE ELSE IS MISTAKEN.... no worries... Well, show me which Tier X BB you have. As far as I can see, you've only gone up to Friedrich der Grosse. Explain why you think I'm wrong instead of acting like a child. I gave my reasons, give yours. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3,640 [WOLF1] pmgaudio Members 9,915 posts 18,626 battles Report post #10 Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Swagbito said: Well, show me which Tier X BB you have. As far as I can see, you've only gone up to Friedrich der Grosse. Explain why you think I'm wrong instead of acting like a child. I gave my reasons, give yours. played them on Test servers.... LIKE I SAID.... it aint no big deal Having more than one account is a rule violation.... but I guess you dont care about that, just like you dont care about an opinion that is not yours???./.. I said good day kid... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
65 manon45 Members 321 posts 3,242 battles Report post #11 Posted December 18, 2017 People still argue about the conqueror being unbalanced? Just look at the stats it can mathematically be proven, I thought it was basically accepted as fact that it needs a nerf just nobody could agree on what to nerf. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 Swagbito Members 14 posts 605 battles Report post #12 Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, pmgaudio said: played them on Test servers.... LIKE I SAID.... it aint no big deal Having more than one account is a rule violation.... but I guess you dont care about that, just like you dont care about an opinion that is not yours???./.. I said good day kid... First of all, having multiple accounts is not against the rules. Secondly, you think playing on the test server means you have experience? Don't make me laugh. Just like when I was new, I thought shimakaze was overpowered on the test server, but now that I've played over 1000 games on the regular server, I realize why people say it's the worst Tier X destroyer. If you're not going to give me a valid argument as to why I'm wrong (my argument is based on statistical facts), then don't bother posting anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 Swagbito Members 14 posts 605 battles Report post #13 Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, manon45 said: People still argue about the conqueror being unbalanced? Just look at the stats it can mathematically be proven, I thought it was basically accepted as fact that it needs a nerf just nobody could agree on what to nerf. Evidently not. This guy hasn't even played a Tier X battleship, but he thinks he knows about the B.S. called Conqueror that owns every other ship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
448 [STORM] 2Floods1Ship Alpha Tester 1,125 posts 4,431 battles Report post #14 Posted December 18, 2017 Apparently we need the PSA that the test server is not the real server. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5,142 [ARS] Helstrem Beta Testers 8,607 posts 10,406 battles Report post #15 Posted December 19, 2017 Keep in mind that fire is garbage damage* when done to ships that can heal and per WG's numbers Conqueror disproportionately shoots at other BBs. This means her damage numbers are higher while she has less impact on the game. *Fire is garbage damage because 100% of it is repaired by repair parties. This means that a single point of penetration AP damage is worth about 2 points of fire damage on targets that have a repair party. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,169 [SYN] mofton [SYN] Members 9,313 posts 18,914 battles Report post #16 Posted December 19, 2017 3rd best T10 BB by win rate in the last 2 weeks. Probably ok. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 Swagbito Members 14 posts 605 battles Report post #17 Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Helstrem said: Keep in mind that fire is garbage damage* when done to ships that can heal and per WG's numbers Conqueror disproportionately shoots at other BBs. This means her damage numbers are higher while she has less impact on the game. *Fire is garbage damage because 100% of it is repaired by repair parties. This means that a single point of penetration AP damage is worth about 2 points of fire damage on targets that have a repair party. It's not garbage damage. It would be garbage damage if BB's could constantly heal it back, but we can't. BB's have 5 heals max, so if you blow them all, it's over. Conqueror is usually setting two fires on average every salvo in my experience, so it will kill you very quickly. If, by luck, you still have 50% health after dealing with the fires, then you have to deal with the sheer amount of raw damage the Conqueror's HE does. 15k salvos that damage your modules AND start fires. It's too much if you ask me. Edited December 19, 2017 by Swagbito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5,142 [ARS] Helstrem Beta Testers 8,607 posts 10,406 battles Report post #18 Posted December 19, 2017 48 minutes ago, Swagbito said: It's not garbage damage. It would be garbage damage if BB's could constantly heal it back, but we can't. BB's have 5 heals max, so if you blow them all, it's over. Conqueror is usually setting two fires on average every salvo in my experience, so it will kill you very quickly. If, by luck, you still have 50% health after dealing with the fires, then you have the sheer amount of raw damage the Conqueror's HE does. 15k salvos that damage your modules AND start fires. It's too much if you ask me. LOL. None of that refutes what I said. Conqueror does more damage, but only by a little bit, and a huge chunk of it is fire damage, which unlike HE or AP damage, can be healed back 100%. Taking this into account Conqueror actually does less effective damage than other Tier X BB. This is why its win rate is not reflective of its damage numbers. Not all damage is equal, but the game counts it all the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,397 [USMC-] Lampshade_M1A2 Members 3,781 posts 11,685 battles Report post #19 Posted December 20, 2017 Considering how the HE shells strip all of my nice AA guns away I'd prefer it was firing AP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
65 [SCAVS] SilhoutteFG Members 216 posts 9,517 battles Report post #20 Posted December 20, 2017 On 18/12/2017 at 12:24 PM, Swagbito said: Evidently not. This guy hasn't even played a Tier X battleship, but he thinks he knows about the B.S. called Conqueror that owns every other ship. Well I have and I'm telling you you're wrong. It can and is easily citadelled, just because you cant do it doesn't mean its impossible. The nerf to the heal means you have to be very careful using it as you have a long wait till your next one. It really doesn't like torpedoes and has no way to spot for itself. The ship is fine and one game on the PTS doesn't mean a thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 Swagbito Members 14 posts 605 battles Report post #21 Posted December 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, SilhoutteFG said: Well I have and I'm telling you you're wrong. It can and is easily citadelled, just because you cant do it doesn't mean its impossible. The nerf to the heal means you have to be very careful using it as you have a long wait till your next one. It really doesn't like torpedoes and has no way to spot for itself. The ship is fine and one game on the PTS doesn't mean a thing. Easy to citadel? Please. Even Notser, Flamu, and Aeroon all say how impossible British battleships are to citadel, especially Lion and Conqueror. Like I said before, it's not just one game on PTS. I've fought against Conqueror's several times in Yamato. I think I'd notice if that ship was OP. When Grosser Kurfurst came out, I knew immediately that although it had 100k+ health, it still had weaknesses. It's easily penned from broadside and is genuinely easy to citadel from 17+ km away. The turrets also get knocked out quite a bit and it has the turning circle of Jupiter. Not to mention those firing angles. As for Conqueror, I cannot think of one weakness it has. In fact, I challenge you to tell me what weakness it has that makes you think the ship is fine. Also, you saying the Conqueror is balanced is kind of convenient. Your highest scoring Tier X battleship is the Conqueror. 115k average damage compared to your second place Yamato, which is at 99k. It also has the least defeats proportional to the number of times you've played it. Just pointing that out. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
65 [SCAVS] SilhoutteFG Members 216 posts 9,517 battles Report post #22 Posted December 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, Swagbito said: Easy to citadel? Please. Even Notser, Flamu, and Aeroon all say how impossible British battleships are to citadel, especially Lion and Conqueror. Like I said before, it's not just one game on PTS. I've fought against Conqueror's several times in Yamato. I think I'd notice if that ship was OP. When Grosser Kurfurst came out, I knew immediately that although it had 100k+ health, it still had weaknesses. It's easily penned from broadside and is genuinely easy to citadel from 17+ km away. The turrets also get knocked out quite a bit and it has the turning circle of Jupiter. Not to mention those firing angles. As for Conqueror, I cannot think of one weakness it has. In fact, I challenge you to tell me what weakness it has that makes you think the ship is fine. Also, you saying the Conqueror is balanced is kind of convenient. Your highest scoring Tier X battleship is the Conqueror. 115k average damage compared to your second place Yamato, which is at 99k. It also has the least defeats proportional to the number of times you've played it. Just pointing that out. I gave 3 weaknesses in my original response. It’s also got the lowest health pool of the tier 10’s. Hell i triple citadelled one yesterday in my Yamato. My stats in it are a greater reflection of my improvement as a player rather than the ship. If you look at its overall stats it’s not the best performing tier X BB in all catergories bar damage. It’s not a ship that can easily carry a team to a win. Prior to the nerf it was slightly OP but now it’s perfectly fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 Swagbito Members 14 posts 605 battles Report post #23 Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, SilhoutteFG said: I gave 3 weaknesses in my original response. It’s also got the lowest health pool of the tier 10’s. Hell i triple citadelled one yesterday in my Yamato. My stats in it are a greater reflection of my improvement as a player rather than the ship. If you look at its overall stats it’s not the best performing tier X BB in all catergories bar damage. It’s not a ship that can easily carry a team to a win. Prior to the nerf it was slightly OP but now it’s perfectly fine. What nerf? The 1km concealment nerf? The concealment is 11.8 now. It literally out spots all cruisers it will face other than the British and Japanese (and maybe Baltimore and Des Moines. I can't remember if they're sub 12 km). Lower health pool? It has more effective health than all other ships in the game because of its heal, and because of its excellent armor, 85k health is not a weakness. Trying to citadel it is just as unreliable as trying to citadel Kurfurst or the other German battleships. It needs more than a 1 km detectability range nerf. Edited December 20, 2017 by Swagbito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
65 [SCAVS] SilhoutteFG Members 216 posts 9,517 battles Report post #24 Posted December 20, 2017 22 minutes ago, Swagbito said: What nerf? The 1km concealment nerf? The concealment is 11.8 now. It literally out spots all cruisers it will face other than the British and Japanese (and maybe Baltimore and Des Moines. I can't remember if they're sub 12 km). Lower health pool? It has more effective health than all other ships in the game because of its heal, and because of its excellent armor, 85k health is not a weakness. Trying to citadel it is just as unreliable as trying to citadel Kurfurst or the other German battleships. It needs more than a 1 km detectability range nerf. You missed the extended duration on cool down for the damage repair party, you don't often get to use your additional heals unless you completely leave the fight. That hurt far more than the concealment change. You don't always get a chance to use your heals as you get focused down after using it. From patch 6.12.1 - Changed the reloading time for the Repair Party consumable from 120 to 180s Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 Swagbito Members 14 posts 605 battles Report post #25 Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, SilhoutteFG said: You missed the extended duration on cool down for the damage repair party, you don't often get to use your additional heals unless you completely leave the fight. That hurt far more than the concealment change. You don't always get a chance to use your heals as you get focused down after using it. From patch 6.12.1 - Changed the reloading time for the Repair Party consumable from 120 to 180s Um, it's not 180. It's 120 for premium repair party, which you honestly should be using. Regardless, even if that were a major weakness, which it isn't, the Conqueror is tanky enough to survive two minutes without a heal. Even if you aren't tanking, which most BB players at high tier don't, your insane detectibility means you can disengage whenever you want without retreating. And when it does get that heal back, you're pretty much back up to full health Edited December 20, 2017 by Swagbito Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
