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SoftAndCute

Conqueror's Achilles Heel?

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I stumbled on a Youtuber's game play (perhaps Flamu?) against Conqueror, where he showed how to take out her guns. Appreciate it someone repost the link cause I couldn't find that video anymore. I recalled from the video Conqueor's turret face was flat so I compare armor profiles of all Tier X BB in port and, to my surprise, it appears to me that devs intentionally designed Conqueror's turret for easy penetration- she has the thinnest and flattest turret face among all Tier X BB. In other words, you can easily pen and disable a Conqueror shooting at you mid-close range.  See the image below for comparison.

Please share your tactics on how to deal with this allegedly OP BB.

 

typo in figure: Yamato (650mm/ 460mm)

 

 

Untitled-1.gif

Edited by SoftAndCute
typo

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Torpedoes/AP and keeping the ship spotted usually it's weakness. You have to get the ship to use the heal and the repair then focus fire it.

Edited by Robinhood_

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Don't let it fire at range, up close and personal seems to do a world of good.  Pan Asian DDs have hurt me a couple times in the Conqueror.   And most run the 419s over the 457s do to losing 4 barrels.

Edited by gcangel82

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Tier 10 cruisers are able to knock out her guns at close range, but it's still a questionable tactic as it is VERY RNG dependent.

 

Torpedoes and AP pens are the best way of killing a Conqueror, as the superheal is less effective when healing those forms of damages. Citadels would be an option, if it was actually possible to citadel her...

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Just killing it quickly works - the OP heal isn't worth as much as the 2 heals and 15k starting HP advantage the other T10 BB's have - or at least it's no real advantage IF you can do lethal damage in < 2 minutes.

I run the 457mm's and they're pretty sturdy.

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Too bad almost every Conq you see is gonna be firing HE from 20km away

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If you could reach the lower half of the foremost turret, it shouldn't be too hard to get a citadel penetration. It's a similar case on the North Carolina. 

image.png.1d8bdeb2f73a70ba16abb8eba6357cf4.png

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Also at more extended ranges the flat face actually makes the turrets armour more effective not less. Now up close, less of a benefit.

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18 hours ago, HowitzerBlitzer said:

If you could reach the lower half of the foremost turret, it shouldn't be too hard to get a citadel penetration. It's a similar case on the North Carolina. 

image.png.1d8bdeb2f73a70ba16abb8eba6357cf4.png

I've cit them there, at about 12 km with the ship slightly angled towards me, in Monty. You have to aim the way you aim to cit an angled N Mex in Fuso. But I have only done it a couple of times. 

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I've brought up the turret weakness of Conqueror before:

On 11/25/2017 at 5:43 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

You feed RN BBs AP.  They like to eat penetrations.  You may not get citadels, but they eat penetrations galore.  The problem with most people are they are panicking about fires and not keeping track that hits with BB AP net good pens on these ships.

 

US 16"/50 guns of Tier IX-X are fabulous guns, eclipsed only by Yamato 460mm rifles.  Unlike GK, Montana can effectively engage at range, so make use of these 12 guns and plant shells into Conqueror.

 

Conqueror's HP is the lowest of Tier X BBs.  The nerf to her consumables cooldown times are noticeable and nowhere near as forgiving as it used to be when the RN BB launch came out.

 

Focus Conquerors down.  HARD.  Make them pay for being out of position with their lowest HP pool of Tier X BBs.

 

Conqueror is also very vulnerable to DD attacks.  I love my Conqueror but when you get those scenarios that you know a DD is prowling near you, there is absolutely nothing you can do but run.  Linger around and you're dead.  The other worse part of a DD stalking Conqueror?  They negate one of her biggest advantages, amazing detection range and ability to "go dark" more easily than most BBs in High Tier.  That allows her to hide and recover, reposition at her leisure.  A stalking DD deprives her of that so people can keep shooting at her.  A DD should have no fear of Conqueror if it's isolated.  You should outrun and outspot her.  She has no catapult aircraft, no hydro like German BBs, no radar like Missouri.  Most Conq players will not even bother with Secondary Builds.  Some may not even have AFT, BFT slotted, much less SBM2.  Of all the Tier X BBs, she is the most vulnerable to DD attacks.  I'd rather take floating behemoth GK if I had to avoid a nearby DD.  GK at least has tools to help in that matter, Conqueror doesn't.

 

Edit:  Another thing, if your range and aim is good enough, aim at Conqueror's turret faces.  They are quite prone to being knocked out.  They are 381mm and vertical, so they are quite vulnerable in a brawl setting if one is caught in that situation.  Montana's turret face is angled and at 457mm.  Montana can trade shots and knock Conq's guns out.

Yamato:  Angled turret face at 650mm.

GK:  Slightly angled at 400mm.

Conqueror:  419mm, vertical at 381mm460mm, vertical at 456mm.  Conqueror's 457mm gun turret faces are tougher but almost nobody uses 457s.  When I play Conqueror, the turrets being ko'd are annoying.  It never happens to my Montana, Yamato.

 

It has to be emphasized, focus a Conqueror down when given the chance.  That low HP pool and long consumable CD is a weakness.

I also recall with the very early reviews, some unicums stating said weaknesses.  I specifically remember @Pope_Shizzle was one of the guys warning about that turret face being a weakness.

 

If a Conqueror, Lion wants to brawl, take the guns out.  If anything this really emphasizes the point that Lion, Conqueror are not ships to push up to anyone with.  This isn't like a GK, Montana that can creep up to people and knock them the f--k out with sledgehammers and trade blows.  Conqueror does not brawl or you lose your guns.

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21 minutes ago, Carl said:

Also at more extended ranges the flat face actually makes the turrets armour more effective not less. Now up close, less of a benefit.

I think it's because shell's impact angle increases with distance to the target.

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31 minutes ago, SoftAndCute said:

I think it's because shell's impact angle increases with distance to the target.

 

It is. At close ange the laid back turret faces of the other nations angle their thicker armour. At  longer ranges Conqueror's angle becomes less flat whilst theirs becomes flatter.

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1 hour ago, CarefreeTongue said:

The best way to kill a Conqueror quickly in Randoms is lots of torpedo alpha. Like a Shima or a CV.

The DDs can easily outspot it and this deprives Conqueror of one of her best strengths:  Amazing BB stealth so she can easily break contact and repair herself, take care of fires, etc.  This is crucial because of the nerf in CD to some consumables.  CV aircraft do the same.

"But Haze, what's all this talk about Conqueror having great AA?"

Conqueror has the foundation for great AA.  Just like GK.  But like GK, people do not spec AA for her.  This is worse for Conqueror for the simple fact that the typical secondary builds found on GK, AFT and maybe BFT will improve AA modules also, even though that isn't the primary intent for the skills on her.  Conqueror builds typically don't feature AA skills at all, much less AAGM2 / AAGM3 upgrades.  In upgrades alone, people will build for Main Battery.  IMO, Conqueror is more vulnerable to air spotting and air attack than GK.

As for DDs again, most especially late game where the map opens up more and fewer ships are around, if a Conqueror is being stalked, she's in trouble against torpedo attacks, DWT or otherwise.

No Hydro.

No Catapult Aircraft.

No Radar.

Her Mega Repair Party doesn't help much for torpedo damage.  Coupled with her lowest HP pool of any Tier X BB, she goes down very quickly to torpedo attacks.  Ship launched or air dropped, doesn't matter.

 

When playing a high tier BB, few things make you feel more helpless than being a Conqueror stalked by a Torpedo DD and you have no more help around.  PADDs just make it worse.  I'd rather be in a big, hulking GK being stalked by a DD than I would in a Conqueror.  GK has tools to get by, Conqueror doesn't and can only hope the DD is stupid enough to sail in so close to get detected.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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this isnt tonks

 

 

you cant aim well enough in this game for a boat to have a "weakspot". Game is broken when the "skill" class spams HE, fix that....

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I have started using the 457s lately, not because they are amazing, but they will give me an idea of how the French T10 BB will work in terms of performance.  They are doing the job.

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16 hours ago, HowitzerBlitzer said:

If you could reach the lower half of the foremost turret, it shouldn't be too hard to get a citadel penetration. It's a similar case on the North Carolina. 

image.png.1d8bdeb2f73a70ba16abb8eba6357cf4.png

 

I believe that bottom portion is protected by casemate armor.  So you have to pen the casemate first.

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10 hours ago, atPrick__ said:

this isnt tonks

 

 

you cant aim well enough in this game for a boat to have a "weakspot". Game is broken when the "skill" class spams HE, fix that....

Wut

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7 hours ago, Soshi_Sone said:

I believe that bottom portion is protected by casemate armor.  So you have to pen the casemate first.

Correct, and at that height it's either 406mm for the main belt or 403mm for the citadel forward bulkhead.

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