Tier VII British destroyer Cossack unveiled

[Wolcott]

[UltimateNewbie]

3x2 120mm - woefully underarmed for Tier 7?

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

Hello Tribal class!

 

Is this a tech tree sneak peek or another premium heading our way? HMCS Haida fans, here is your consolation prize.

 

I don't like the fact that she's only got one quad torpedo launcher, possibly the one that is on the Leander? No data so far on anti-air fit. So far she looks like an overgrown Vampire.

[pewpewpew42]

7 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

3x2 120mm - woefully underarmed for Tier 7?

It's the same as Gadjah Mada, which is actually quite strong.

[UltimateNewbie]

Just now, pewpewpew42 said:

It's the same as Gadjah Mada, which is actually quite strong.

Ah, I was being re-tarded.  I read "cruiser" instead of Destroyer, hence comparing to the Fiji...

[Carl]

23 minutes ago, pewpewpew42 said:

It's the same as Gadjah Mada, which is actually quite strong.

 

TBH Stats Wise she looks like a slightly stealthier Gadjah Mada, but with 1 quad instead of 2 quintuple launchers, despite GM's good rep that may be a bit too much of a downgrade, but i'd need to do a slightly more in depth comparision to say for sure, a bit tired for that atm.

[Monty9185]

Canadian riot in 3 2 1.... 

 

Seriously thought, nice to see a Tribal in game and a RN example at that.

[Lord_Magus]

25 minutes ago, Carl said:

TBH Stats Wise she looks like a slightly stealthier Gadjah Mada, but with 1 quad instead of 2 quintuple launchers, despite GM's good rep that may be a bit too much of a downgrade, but i'd need to do a slightly more in depth comparision to say for sure, a bit tired for that atm.

Gadjah Mada also has amazing arcs on the aft turret while Cossack probably won't. Given the dramatic loss of torp power I would've preferred Cossack's 1940 configuration with 4x2 120mm (but no AA to speak of).

Cossack being in 1941 as-sunk configuration also means Haida would be a straight clone of her. Whereas they could've been differentiated by Cossack getting better gun power and Haida maybe getting DFAA?

[Crucis]

2 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Hello Tribal class!

 

Is this a tech tree sneak peek or another premium heading our way? HMCS Haida fans, here is your consolation prize.

 

I don't like the fact that she's only got one quad torpedo launcher, possibly the one that is on the Leander? No data so far on anti-air fit. So far she looks like an overgrown Vampire.

Or maybe they could try being patient, knowing that if the Haida is a member of a class that the devs add to the RN DD tree, then cloning and tweaking a version of it to be the Haida would seem to be pretty straightforward. Of course, one thing we don't know is whether or not WG's marketing department thinks that even doing (or at least doing it sooner than later) would be worth the company's time and effort in terms of potential sales.

And to get back to a point I made a week or two ago, this is why IMO it's a bad idea to not have Commonwealth ships folded into the RN national umbrella.  Why?  Because if Commonwealth premium ships were treated in game as RN ships and therefore could accept RN captains, those Commonwealth ships would suddenly increase manifold in utility to the average player.  And instead of having a premium like the Blyskawica that can train no captain but its own, you'd have premium ships that could be used to train any RN/Commonwealth captain.

[Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi]

2 hours ago, Wolcott said:

Still no Haida though.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

34 minutes ago, Crucis said:

And to get back to a point I made a week or two ago, this is why IMO it's a bad idea to not have Commonwealth ships folded into the RN national umbrella.  Why?  Because if Commonwealth premium ships were treated in game as RN ships and therefore could accept RN captains, those Commonwealth ships would suddenly increase manifold in utility to the average player.  And instead of having a premium like the Blyskawica that can train no captain but its own, you'd have premium ships that could be used to train any RN/Commonwealth captain.

 

Yes, except for the part where they just effectively gave away (and are STILL giving away, if only just) a Commonwealth premium ship (Vampire) for NOTHING to an uncontrollably large number of players (the mission to get her is not at all hard). There must be heaps of people who buy just ONE premium ship to use as their captain trainer, and if you make the RN and Commonwealth ships cross-compatible you risk taking a huge bite (pun not intended) out of that revenue stream with your freebie. People have to be paid in order for this game to keep happening, and sooner or later the money that doesn't come in starts to add up.

I agree with you that the cross-compatibility would be nice to have, and it's more than justifiable in historic terms - but if God came down from on high and assured you it was never going to happen, this would have to be at least one reason why.

[m373x]

 Nice, hopefully those will be single launch torps.

 

22 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Still no Haida though.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

I can understand the Canadians' frustration. Two Australian ships, one Polish ship built in Britain and operating as part of the RN, a whole bunch of ex-British ships in Pan-Asian livery (including a premium Arethusa-thing), and not one Canadian-flagged ship so far.

On the flipside, there are quite a lot of Aussies who wanted their Vampire to be a T10 premium (Daring-class) like the one which sits in Sydney Harbour, but that one doesn't have a WW2 combat record; the one we got does, even if it ended badly. (On that basis, I am surprised we didn't get HMAS Sydney instead of HMAS Perth).

What did HMCS Haida do in the war to carve a name for herself?

[Weegees_Useless_API]

WAIT??? WHAT????

 

 

No, no, just NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can't release a premium Tribal before Haida....

[Weegees_Useless_API]

2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I can understand the Canadians' frustration. Two Australian ships, one Polish ship built in Britain and operating as part of the RN, a whole bunch of ex-British ships in Pan-Asian livery (including a premium Arethusa-thing), and not one Canadian-flagged ship so far.

On the flipside, there are quite a lot of Aussies who wanted their Vampire to be a T10 premium (Daring-class) like the one which sits in Sydney Harbour, but that one doesn't have a WW2 combat record; the one we got does, even if it ended badly. (On that basis, I am surprised we didn't get HMAS Sydney instead of HMAS Perth).

What did HMCS Haida do in the war to carve a name for herself?

It served multiple fronts. Did arctic convoy duty as well as was a member of the 10th DD flotilla clearing the channel prior to Operation Overlord. was a part of the sinking of ?9? different ships and submarines. Has sunk more tonnage than any Canadian warship in history. Went on to fight in Korea and is one of Canada's few museum ships.

Since Enterprise is in the game, it is now the most requested premium on the NA server.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

And little wonder. Thanks for that little bit of history. She's pretty much the Canadian Warspite at DD level.

[MorbidGamer]

No thanks... 4 x 1 torps? Are you kidding me? With 96 second reload time... *shakes head*

I want a good British DD bad. But at this rate I'll never see one.

[Ensign_Cthulhu]

Wait for the RN DD tech tree, after which everyone will be screaming OMG NERF and Pan-Asian DD's - with yet another class of ship at every tier to fight that they cannot torp - will vanish from the waves.

[Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi]

40 minutes ago, m373x said:

 Nice, hopefully those will be single launch torps.

 

Now you see that doesn't work here, I'm not the OP, plus I'm not whining. I'm just sad about there still being no news on Haida.

[mofton]

2 hours ago, Lord_Magus said:

Gadjah Mada also has amazing arcs on the aft turret while Cossack probably won't. Given the dramatic loss of torp power I would've preferred Cossack's 1940 configuration with 4x2 120mm (but no AA to speak of).

Cossack being in 1941 as-sunk configuration also means Haida would be a straight clone of her. Whereas they could've been differentiated by Cossack getting better gun power and Haida maybe getting DFAA?

Pretty much my thoughts exactly, Cossack shouldn't get 360' traverse on her Y turret, or as good arcs.

Compared to Gadjah you're giving up most of the torps, you're down on firepower while mostly bow on, and for a gunboat with bad arcs your smoke won't be as good either.

I'd have gone with an Altmark Cossack and Haida, with Haida getting some consumable (maybe repair per Kidd - sacrifice for the firepower) to balance.

17 minutes ago, MorbidGamer said:

No thanks... 4 x 1 torps? Are you kidding me? With 96 second reload time... *shakes head*

I want a good British DD bad. But at this rate I'll never see one.

Gallant has 96s on the same torpedo launcher - national flavor of slow reloading torpedoes perhaps...

 

Generally I'm pleased to see the pretty famous Cossack in the game, it's not the configuration I'd have wanted. I can definitely see why Canadian Navy enthusiasts would feel aggrieved. If you were going to do a 6-gun Tribal, do Haida.

[Dunk_Master_Flex]

Well this is [edited].

Whatever, I'd better get my damn Haida soon.

[LittleWhiteMouse]

1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

And little wonder. Thanks for that little bit of history. She's pretty much the Canadian Warspite at DD level.

Have some history.  This is one of HMCS Haida's more memorable engagements (Blyskawica was there too!).
Matters of the Channel Night:  The 10th Destroyer Flotilla's Victory off Ile de Batz, 9 June 1944

So, what does HMS Cossack's inclusion mean?

HMCS Haida is still coming.  When?  Well, if @Pigeon_of_War is feeling particularly cheeky, we'll see her around Valentine's Day, but my guess is closer to a June 29th release date.  HMS Cossack does take a lot of the wind out of the sails of any subsequent Tribal releases.  For the layman unfamiliar (or uncaring) about the Canadian museum ship, Cossack will likely tick all of the right boxes for someone looking for a mid-tier Royal Navy destroyer and they won't look back.  It's only going to be through incentives that HMCS Haida will be made to appeal, especially given that Cossack is showing up in her 3x2 main armament that she boasted from mid-1940 onwards.  Here are some examples:

• Economic Bonuses:  Why buy Anshan if you already had Gremyashchy?  Both ships are Gnevny-class destroyers and similar enough in statistics (with Gremyashchy being overall better and a tier lower to boot).  At the time of her initial inclusion, the Pan Asian destroyer line had no tech tree in the same way that HMCS Haida will have no tech tree as part of the British Commonwealth line.  The answer that Wargaming came up with was to slap an economic bonus (100% extra free experience) onto Anshan.  We may see something similar with HMCS Haida, with some baked in economy goodies to make people want both Tribals.
• Box o' Gimmicks:  I'm calling it now:  HMCS Haida will have Surveillance Radar.  See the above link about her activities during night actions in the channel.  This is by no means the only solution to differentiate her from Cossack so she doesn't feel like a complete clone.  One need only look at Gnevny-Anshan-Gremyashchy or Fletcher-Black-Kidd to get some ideas of how subtle tweaks can make ships feel different.
• Korean Haida:  The last thing that may happen is HMCS Haida may be given the HMS Belfast treatment -- placed in game in her "museum ship" fittings.  This would see her equipped in her 2x2 bow-mounted 102mm/45 Mk 16 guns and her single quad torpedo launcher.  See above for ideas of the number of Gimmicks that would be needed to make her feel viable at tier VII with this kind of configuration. 

[10thDF]

Need more N in the NA server.

[IronWolfV]

6 hours ago, UltimateNewbie said:

3x2 120mm - woefully underarmed for Tier 7?

Why? Blyskawica has 7 120s and she does fine.

[Doomlock]

I'm joining the wait and see crowd. Pigeon got us Enterprise, I'm sure we'll see Haida. Soon™.