1 sharkking995 Members 42 posts 3,740 battles Report post #1 Posted December 15, 2017 ever since the beginning of 0.6.14 I was overjoyed that AS Bogue was removed. but after fighting the reworked bogue... now the zuiho needs a rework as now it cant compete with it. the bogue can kick the zuihos [edited]with the fighters while doing massive damage to the zuiho's team. while the zuiho cant do crap. so I think it needs a rework. and if you don't agree with me try zuiho with a 10 skilled captain or less or even try the new bogue. hell I even do better in the bogue and do 70k damage and higher. but I want to go through the IJN carrier line 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
9,860 [NMKJT] VTAdmiral Beta Testers 24,800 posts 3,947 battles Report post #2 Posted December 15, 2017 While true, Zuiho has always had trouble dealing witH AS Bogue... Be prepared for most responses to orbit around "Well it was OP for so long" and "Zuiho deserves it" and similar pointlessly spiteful reactions to the current balance situation. 1 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 sharkking995 Members 42 posts 3,740 battles Report post #3 Posted December 15, 2017 yeah but what I'm saying is that bogue isn't better at one thing, its better at everything besides cross dropping. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
176 [WOLF2] Slntreaper Members 484 posts 5,322 battles Report post #4 Posted December 15, 2017 Bogue can't even tank any losses to its airgroup. You have to be very careful... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
112 Eichbomb Beta Testers 434 posts Report post #5 Posted December 16, 2017 OP CV captain complaining because his CV isn’t the dominant choice anymore. Classic. All CV are broken and balancing them will never work. Ride the waves. 2 2 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,425 [0456] _ENO_ Members 3,945 posts 10,545 battles Report post #6 Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) I'm having a hard time with Hosho vs Langley too... fighters aren't even close and meeting tier IV ships (and maybe even III) means you can't try to lure his fighters into any that have decent (or good- good would be nice) AA to help you balance the odds. Frustrating. Smart Langely sends all of his planes together since he knows that while you know his fighters are there you can send your torp squadrons elsewhere- but you can't spend enough time setting up a decent attack on anything since you need to micromanage where your fighters are going to engage his... or you're going to engage the attack planes and be intercepted by his fighters in a place where it's going to be beneficial with the AA of the ship that he's attacking. Or you're going to focus on your attack, your fighters are going to get jumped by his wherever he wants and his planes are going to advance unperturbed and- over the next 3 attack runs- sink a bunch of your ships. Team is mad at you for the rest of the match and vacuum up any Karma that you had accrued over the last 8 months of shutting your mouth and trying to play nice. So... needless to say that as an average CV player who generally knows what he's supposed to be doing without always having the capacity / ability to do it- I understand why it is that- at least at low tiers- why people don't hang around and instead charge up the line in hopes of something getting better. This results in very, very weak carrier players. To the OP- things should get better for you as you work your way up since your potential disadvantage in fighters can be mitigated by stronger AA on your ships. You still need to pick the time and place that you're going to engage him- and he needs to agree to it- but at LEAST you have been looking for ways to do that since you started the IJN CV line so it's not something that's strange to you. You're used to it. The guy on the other side in the American CV hasn't always had the AA to contend with and in the event you end up against someone who just started playing carriers for the first time at 8am this morning you'll probably have a reasonably easy time baiting his fighters with yours while sitting over a cleveland or a texas. But anyone who started playing at 7am this morning or has any more experience than that is going to make you work really, really hard for it for a few tiers more. Edited December 16, 2017 by ENO75 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 sharkking995 Members 42 posts 3,740 battles Report post #7 Posted December 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Slntreaper said: Bogue can't even tank any losses to its airgroup. You have to be very careful... yes, but zuiho cant tank that much too. yes bogue has little other planes for replacements but bogue makes up for that by sheer firepower with its fighters and that its tb and db are faster Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 sharkking995 Members 42 posts 3,740 battles Report post #8 Posted December 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Eichbomb said: OP CV captain complaining because his CV isn’t the dominant choice anymore. Classic. All CV are broken and balancing them will never work. Ride the waves. your saying that to someone whos top ships are t6. I'm not a seal clubber. also CVs can be fixed its just that what wargameing does that fuckes up one or the other lines Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 sharkking995 Members 42 posts 3,740 battles Report post #9 Posted December 16, 2017 do I have to mention that I play zuiho and bogue? and I have to admit that bogue is just better? hell even though I have a ten skill captain from a reward and has air group mod 2 I cant win vs a bogue with just tier 5 fighters. zuiho also has a harder time hitting dds and cruisers as its torps are just too spreaded. hell even some bbs only got hit by ONE torp by a good cross drop Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
722 StoneRhino Members 3,256 posts 4,322 battles Report post #10 Posted December 16, 2017 Looking at the 1 week stats on Na.warships. You can't get much more balanced. As opposed to Pre Bogue buff and manual drops capable. Its better to face a more balanced cv at t5 then go up to t6 and have to learn strafing against better player's in independence 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
760 [WOLF5] Patton5150 Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters, Beta Testers 3,084 posts 61,257 battles Report post #11 Posted December 16, 2017 Currently Zuiho still outperforms Bogue in both winrate and damage. Same as before the USN CV changes. Only difference is that the performance between the 2 ships is now closer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 sharkking995 Members 42 posts 3,740 battles Report post #12 Posted December 16, 2017 how odd, because every time I see a bogue vs a zuiho the zuiho gets its [edited]kicked. same thing when I'm playing one of the cvs 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1,425 [0456] _ENO_ Members 3,945 posts 10,545 battles Report post #13 Posted December 16, 2017 1 hour ago, sharkking995 said: how odd, because every time I see a bogue vs a zuiho the zuiho gets its [edited]kicked. same thing when I'm playing one of the cvs This is certainly how it feels- I think I'll need to go on the hunt for strategies and tactics on how to contend with the US CVs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
6,799 IronWolfV Alpha Tester, Beta Testers 30,523 posts 6,320 battles Report post #14 Posted December 16, 2017 19 hours ago, sharkking995 said: ever since the beginning of 0.6.14 I was overjoyed that AS Bogue was removed. but after fighting the reworked bogue... now the zuiho needs a rework as now it cant compete with it. the bogue can kick the zuihos [edited]with the fighters while doing massive damage to the zuiho's team. while the zuiho cant do crap. so I think it needs a rework. and if you don't agree with me try zuiho with a 10 skilled captain or less or even try the new bogue. hell I even do better in the bogue and do 70k damage and higher. but I want to go through the IJN carrier line Just because now the Bogue can't be face rolled anymore. Sorry I'm just laughing my a** off right now. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10,399 [B2P] Taichunger Members 13,459 posts 44,054 battles Report post #15 Posted December 16, 2017 On 12/15/2017 at 2:59 PM, AraAragami said: While true, Zuiho has always had trouble dealing witH AS Bogue... Be prepared for most responses to orbit around "Well it was OP for so long" and "Zuiho deserves it" and similar pointlessly spiteful reactions to the current balance situation. You have to admit, CV drivers complaining that their OP off-map guided missile cruisers aren't OP enough is rather amusing. More seriously, in two week data, Zuiho is 4th in win rate among tech tree boats, and it is tops among tech tree boats in damage, behind only the insanely OP Guilio C and the somewhat less OP OktR in overall damage. It doesnt need a buff. If players don't make stats-based arguments for buffs or nerfs, they will rightfully get laughed at. However, for a player to whine that he has to work to do pointless cancer damage to other players who have no way to stop him is unconscionable and deserves either scorn or laughter. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4,053 [SYN] MrDeaf Members 16,027 posts 12,803 battles Report post #16 Posted December 17, 2017 On 12/15/2017 at 7:01 PM, Eichbomb said: OP CV captain complaining because his CV isn’t the dominant choice anymore. Classic. All CV are broken and balancing them will never work. Ride the waves. Zuiho never had a chance against AS Bogue The changes didn't change the power balance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
504 [-GT-] guns_at_last_light Members 975 posts Report post #17 Posted December 17, 2017 I found the Zuiho to be a much better CV than the Bogue. Since it's a low tier ship you'll typically face newer players, so you should be able to avoid fighters (unless you are trying to CV snipe, in which case you deserve to lose all of your planes). It's hard to level up in a Bogue. You don't get much in the way of XP for shooting down planes (but you do get Clear Sky awards), and if you are in an AS load out you only get that one dive bomber, which doesn't do much in the way of damage. If you are up against a seal clubber, there isn't much you can do no matter what. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
256 [SCCC] _greifer WoWS Community Contributors 1,011 posts 23,884 battles Report post #18 Posted December 17, 2017 The Bogue has not changed other than its damage has increased. For auto drop I ran the 1/1 Bogue as the fighter squadron with strafe and the manual drop torpedo bomber was very strong to contest against. The 1/1/1 is something the Bogue has needed for a long time, plus it allows US CVs to learn the play style. Limited planes against numerous enemy squadrons. I would voucher that they are now on a more level par than at any previous time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
17,573 [WOLF5] HazeGrayUnderway Members 38,602 posts 31,243 battles Report post #19 Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) Remember this moment folks. Because ever since this game launched, this has been the closest the competition has ever been for Tier V Zuiho. Before manual attacks were removed for Tier IV-V CVs, Zuiho ran away with the competition. It was never, ever, EVER close. AT ALL. On one hand, I can understand how difficult it is for current Zuiho users because the lack of strafe capability means that any air engagement their fighters get into, even against bombers, is costly. There are no strafes to whittle down Bogue aircraft with skillful, clever strafing. It's now "Point & Click" and that is EXACTLY the kind of air-to-air fighting USN fighters excel at, unit for unit. On the other hand, Zuiho is still Dmg leader and still the overall performance leader. 2 sets of TBs is still nothing to scoff at. The difference is it's much closer now compared to before. I just cannot agree with a buff to Zuiho considering her superior game history and that she is still doing well. Edited December 17, 2017 by HazeGrayUnderway 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
7,521 [HINON] RipNuN2 Members 14,340 posts Report post #20 Posted December 17, 2017 I never had problems against the bogue. Your planes are fast and their planes can't be everywhere so you outmanuver them and laugh as you rack up more damage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 sharkking995 Members 42 posts 3,740 battles Report post #21 Posted December 17, 2017 ok I get it. they are both on the same level now. but its just that I'm getting tired of the fact that there's captains who have been playing long enough that they now how to carrier better then me. and they probably have higher skilled captains too. and even though I have air group mod 2 and air supremacy too. I just cant beat the bogues fighters on a 1v1 without any AA support. but even though I try to lure his fighters over a bb so I can have aa support. he's just not that dumb. and I'm pretty sure his fighters are a bit faster so running away is pointless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 sharkking995 Members 42 posts 3,740 battles Report post #22 Posted December 17, 2017 even worse there's no guide on how to beat the new bogue right now. any tips at all? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 sharkking995 Members 42 posts 3,740 battles Report post #23 Posted December 17, 2017 just got carrier sniped by a bogue, how does that even work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1 sharkking995 Members 42 posts 3,740 battles Report post #24 Posted December 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, sharkking995 said: ok I get it. they are both on the same level now. but its just that I'm getting tired of the fact that there's captains who have been playing long enough that they now how to carrier better then me. and they probably have higher skilled captains too. and even though I have air group mod 2 and air supremacy too. I just cant beat the bogues fighters on a 1v1 without any AA support. but even though I try to lure his fighters over a bb so I can have aa support. he's just not that dumb. and I'm pretty sure his fighters are a bit faster so running away is pointless do I also have to mention that I seem to be facing seal clubbers or people resuming the US CV branch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2,212 [GGWP3] Hyyena Beta Testers 4,968 posts 15,599 battles Report post #25 Posted December 17, 2017 Stop play baby tier and get the tier 8/9 to have a real IJN cv power. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
