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A review (NO SPOILERS) The Last Jedi Edition

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Stop what your doing, find the nearest theater and closest to current time you can and go see the movie.

Shut up, don't argue, just go see the movie.

........ this ends the review             i liked it :Smile_popcorn:

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VII killed Star Wars for me, so I won't be going to see VIII.

Most likely, my housemate will get it when it comes to disc, and then offer to let me borrow it to watch after he's done, which he did with VII.

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6 hours ago, Goodwood_Alpha said:

VII killed Star Wars for me, so I won't be going to see VIII.

This.  I was so disappointed in how VII was handled that I wasn't interested to see VIII.  I might, might go see it in the new year, but I'll wait to see how a few friends react.  What will also be telling is if the sales continue past the first week.

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SPOILERS FOLLOWING!  Not a happy camper with this movie!
 

Spoiler

I thought "The Force Awakens" was fine though with some stupid points, but in general I was okay with it.  The more I think about this movie, the more I hated it.  But "The Last Jedi" had so many stupid things about it, absolutely lame characters, dead end plot points from the previous movie, so many things... as well as the butchering of Luke Skywalker's character, as well as killing him off.  Angry Joe had a video about it covering a lot of these stupid things with the movie.

 

I got done watching "The Last Jedi" 4.5 hours ago and I am still pi$$ed off about this.  I have never been upset about any Star Wars movie, but this movie pulled it off.  I was disappointed with TPM.  I was okay with the up and down nature of the Prequels.  I dealt with the stupid Ewoks of ROTJ which overall was still a good SW film.  But godd@mn it, TLJ angered me as a fan.  There are so many stupid things with this movie, take anything that was wrong with TFA and multiply it several times.  That's what you get with TLJ.  And then you have an unrecognizable Luke Skywalker and KILL HIM OFF.

 

And the whole Super Leia thing?  WTH was that?  Rose?  What purpose is she there for?  Goodbye Adm.Ackbar!  You got hosed for nothing!  Another hero of the Rebellion gone!

 

The look, the effects, etc. were fine.  The presentation was fine, but numerous events, extremely dumb plot points, and really dumb character developments, useless characters, disappointing characters... all this did the movie in for me.

 

Do you like long chase scenes?  TLJ is for you!

 

For fun, check out the Rotten Tomatoes page for The Last Jedi.  Extremely high critic reviews but the audience has a completely different take.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I can't think of another Star Wars movie that had worse writing.  Yes, that includes the prequels!  Plot holes, mood whiplash, false suspense, subplot filler that ended up not propelling the story in any meaningful manner, multiple new plot/conflict threads introduced and then dropped minutes later or only executed halfway...

 

Like, don't even look at the "Star Wars" part of it.  Just the merits of it as a movie on it's own.

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Haven't seen the movie, (maybe I'll see it on a matinee 4 weeks from now) but it's so bizarre to see a high 93% critic score on Cotton Tomatoes and a rotten audience score 56%.  Is Disney's super empire influencing the critics?  Is this just a good movie compared to crud we've had this year?  The movie seems to have banked a negative reaction from Star Wars fans, which have been accused for years of being mindlessly loyal during the prequel era.

Edited by Sventex

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4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I thought "The Force Awakens" was fine though with some stupid points, but in general I was okay with it.  The more I think about this movie, the more I hated it.  But "The Last Jedi" had so many stupid things about it,

That sounds like my reaction to watching the J.J. Abrams Star Trek movie.  First time I gave it a 7/10.  Second time I watched it, it was a whole lot dumber then I thought, and gave it a 5/10.  Third time after that, I gave it a 3/10 for being so utterly stupid.  The lens flares can only distract me from the poor writing for so long before the movie falls apart at the seams.

I'm not surprised to be honest.  After lost, and even Alcatraz, I know that JJ is only good with setups.  But it's all [edited].  He can make things mysterious and weird, but he himself doesn't know the reason why, so when somebody else had to handle this movie, they'd have to unpack the weirdness of Luke hiding on a remote planet, using a ultra-convoluted method using multiple maps?  Who is the First Order?  Who is Snoke?  Is he Darth Plagueis?  Who are the Resistance?  Where is the Republic.  JJ doesn't explain any of this, which creates this thirst for knowledge in the audience.  The problem is this info is unknown to the people making the movie as well, which makes it difficult to expand on any of it since it's all empty inside.

At the very least, when Lucas was making these films, he had his own head canon, so he could keep it all straight in his head.  If there was something in the film, they was probably a story behind it that Lucas didn't have time to explain it in the movie.  I miss Lucas, but I understand why he gave it up, the fans were beginning to hate him so passionately to a comical extreme.  He was the punching bag for everybody, the wrecker of childhoods, the evil businessman and incompetent director mad with power.  But people forget that he had to personally fund these movies himself, he wasn't beholden to studio execs, or shareholders.  If any of his Star Wars movies had flopped, from Empire to Revenge, his great Star Wars Empire would have collapsed, and that would have been the end of the franchise, as there would be no money left to make another.

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1 hour ago, Sventex said:

That sounds like my reaction to watching the J.J. Abrams Star Trek movie.  First time I gave it a 7/10.  Second time I watched it, it was a whole lot dumber then I thought, and gave it a 5/10.  Third time after that, I gave it a 3/10 for being so utterly stupid.  The lens flares can only distract me from the poor writing for so long before the movie falls apart at the seams.

I'm not surprised to be honest.  After lost, and even Alcatraz, I know that JJ is only good with setups.  But it's all [edited].  He can make things mysterious and weird, but he himself doesn't know the reason why, so when somebody else had to handle this movie, they'd have to unpack the weirdness of Luke hiding on a remote planet, using a ultra-convoluted method using multiple maps?  Who is the First Order?  Who is Snoke?  Is he Darth Plagueis?  Who are the Resistance?  Where is the Republic.  JJ doesn't explain any of this, which creates this thirst for knowledge in the audience.  The problem is this info is unknown to the people making the movie as well, which makes it difficult to expand on any of it since it's all empty inside.

At the very least, when Lucas was making these films, he had his own head canon, so he could keep it all straight in his head.  If there was something in the film, they was probably a story behind it that Lucas didn't have time to explain it in the movie.  I miss Lucas, but I understand why he gave it up, the fans were beginning to hate him so passionately to a comical extreme.  He was the punching bag for everybody, the wrecker of childhoods, the evil businessman and incompetent director mad with power.  But people forget that he had to personally fund these movies himself, he wasn't beholden to studio execs, or shareholders.  If any of his Star Wars movies had flopped, from Empire to Revenge, his great Star Wars Empire would have collapsed, and that would have been the end of the franchise, as there would be no money left to make another.

Spoiler

There are so many questions that were presented from The Force Awakens that could have been very interesting points in The Last Jedi.  Yet they s--t all over that.  So many plot points that they s--t on.  So many characters that they s--t on, most of all Luke.

 

Oh hey Adm.Ackbar, f--k you too and you get no last, great moment to shine before you get snuffed out also!

 

How the f--k is the First Order now in charge of the Galaxy when not too long ago in The Force Awakens, it's clearly nothing at all like the Galactic Empire, which was THE governing power of the galaxy.  The First Order did not have that level of power and control, it still had to contend with the New Republic.  How can it have maintained control and scare the galaxy to submit to it when STARKILLER BASE WAS DESTROYED.  How???

 

So many cringe-worthy moments.  As the movie progresses you start realizing, "Then what the hell was the point of them doing this?  These characters make no f--king sense!  These events make no sense!"  So many of these characters were garbage and stupid, doing idiotic things.  It's like half the things taking place in TLJ had no purpose whatsoever.

 

The Space Leia scene was so stupid that I was embarrassed for the franchise.  Eventually you'll see the clip on YouTube and I ask you to try to hold back your laughter from seeing it the first time.

 

You know, they killed Luke twice in this movie.

1.  They murdered the "character" of Luke.  The s--t they showed him doing in TLJ in flashbacks and in the movie's current timeframe was nonsensical.  Luke wasn't some murderous b@stard, this is the same character that risked himself by SURRENDERING TO THE EMPIRE because he felt he had a slim chance to bring his father back.  In ROTJ, when he had a chance to finish Vader, he threw his godd@mn lightsaber away despite two [edited]*ng Sith Lords right in front of him.  In TLJ, they show him about to murder his nephew in his sleep because he had a slight tendency to think of the Dark Side.  wth DISNEY!  wth!!!!:Smile_facepalm:

2.  They literally killed off the character Luke.

 

The more and more I think about the movie, the more I am getting upset with it.  Again, NO Star Wars movie had been like this for me.  Prior to TLJ, The Phantom Menace was the worst to me because it was overall dull.  But I left the theater in 1999 not feeling angry about Star Wars.  TLJ did that.

 

The worst part is this s--t is now canon.

 

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 hours ago, Sventex said:

The movie seems to have banked a negative reaction from Star Wars fans, which have been accused for years of being mindlessly loyal during the prequel era.

"Nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans do."

I haven't seen The Last Jedi yet, but many are saying that it's the funniest Star Wars film ever. IMO that doesn't sound good to me. My siblings watched a pirated version of it and I could hear them laughing in the next room. I told them not to spoil it for me, so they advised me to see it only if I am open to new ideas and disliked TFA, because The Last Jedi craps all over it.

Personally I thought TFA was ok. Story was poor but characters and emotion were good. Right now I'm hesitant. I've already seen Dunkirk and Blade Runner 2049 which is enough cinema experience for me this year.

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2 hours ago, Wolcott said:

"Nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans do."

I haven't seen The Last Jedi yet, but many are saying that it's the funniest Star Wars film ever. IMO that doesn't sound good to me. My siblings watched a pirated version of it and I could hear them laughing in the next room. I told them not to spoil it for me, so they advised me to see it only if I am open to new ideas and disliked TFA, because The Last Jedi craps all over it.

Personally I thought TFA was ok. Story was poor but characters and emotion were good. Right now I'm hesitant. I've already seen Dunkirk and Blade Runner 2049 which is enough cinema experience for me this year.

They're not laughing with the film, they're laughing at it.

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5 hours ago, Sventex said:

At the very least, when Lucas was making these films, he had his own head canon, so he could keep it all straight in his head.  If there was something in the film, they was probably a story behind it that Lucas didn't have time to explain it in the movie. 

Yep, the Force Awakens seemed to crap all over the universe to me.  The more I thought about it the less it even looked like a Star Wars universe.  I got the feeling watching it that they were bringing in another mysterious power beside the Force (after all, stopping a laser in mid air, reading minds, never seemed like canon to me).

5 hours ago, Sventex said:

they'd have to unpack the weirdness of Luke hiding on a remote planet, using a ultra-convoluted method using multiple maps?  Who is the First Order?  Who is Snoke?  Is he Darth Plagueis?  Who are the Resistance?  Where is the Republic. 

Some of these are questions I had.  The time line between RotJ and TFA never answered any questions. 

The entire thing, to me, was like watching a bad fan made film.

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27 minutes ago, Wowzery said:

stopping a laser in mid air, reading minds, never seemed like canon to me

Neither were midi-chlorians and virgin births.

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Return of the Jedi came out years before I was born, and yet all my life I was waiting for an impossible Episode 7 to see Luke, Han and Leia get together for an adventure again.  This never happened.  /Sigh

I do hear that Force Yoda tries to impart wisdom to Luke, to stop living in the past and move on.  Meanwhile The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi are desperately trying to relive the past with Rebels and Empires again by smothering the original Star Wars with a pillow.  If Lando reappears in Episode 9, rest assured, it's only for him to die.

Edited by Sventex

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I will say this don't listen to people who say the movie sucks, it is a great movie. The problem is that people expected one thing and got something else so they are upset. It's a great movie.

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6 hours ago, Sventex said:
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I get the impression that Disney wants to shove all the original cast into a coffin so they can start completely fresh while still having the "Star Wars" title on their movies to keep the gravy train rolling.  This is why they Scorched Earth Lucasarts and all their projects, along with the The Clone Wars show which was pretty decent at the time.  Mr. Disney had a habit of revisionist history, of cheerful clean nostalgia, which requires getting rid of all the grit and worn-out realism of Star Wars that made the series stand out.  I'm surprised Disney hasn't gotten rid of the Millennium Falcon yet, in place of something more flashy and clean that kid would want toys for.

 

 

There's still Episode IX to kill Leia off, which surely is on the checklist Hit List, and maybe Chewbacca also for s--ts and giggles.  Toss in the Millenium Falcon to blow up with Chewie and almost all the Original Trilogy standout heroes of the Rebellion are dead.

Han Solo

Luke Skywalker

Leia - WIP, marked for death

Chewbacca - WIP

Millenium Falcon - Endangered

Adm.Ackbar

Wedge Antilles

Lando Calrissian - He should be safe ATM since Disney is too busy killing off the others.  No news of them getting hold of Billy Dee Williams.  Or maybe DIsney could just drop a random line in Ep.IX that a Star Destroyer fell out of space and landed on top of him.  It would be just about an inglorious death as Adm.Ackbar got.

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5 hours ago, Wolcott said:

"Nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans do."

I haven't seen The Last Jedi yet, but many are saying that it's the funniest Star Wars film ever. IMO that doesn't sound good to me. My siblings watched a pirated version of it and I could hear them laughing in the next room. I told them not to spoil it for me, so they advised me to see it only if I am open to new ideas and disliked TFA, because The Last Jedi craps all over it.

Personally I thought TFA was ok. Story was poor but characters and emotion were good. Right now I'm hesitant. I've already seen Dunkirk and Blade Runner 2049 which is enough cinema experience for me this year.

There's a lot of injected, forced humor for the sake of it in this movie.  A lot of it feels completely out of place and falls flat.  FFS, the movie starts with a joke that mocks the tension of the moment.  

 

On top of s--tting on the Original Trilogy further, TLJ does indeed s--t on TFA quite a bit.

Spoiler

Rey's parentage, the mystery of who they were and why was she so strong with the Force in TFA?  Doesn't matter, TLJ says her parents were nobodies and the idea of a random bum being just as or more powerful as the Skywalkers kind of kills the importance of Anakin, Luke, the Skywalker line.:Smile_sceptic:

Why did Anakin Skywallker's lightsaber react so strongly with her?  Doesn't matter, TLJ drops that plotline entirely.  That lightsaber is more of a museum piece that Rey and Kylo Ren literally fight over like little kids and rip it apart.  Yes, Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber :Smile_facepalm:

The obsession of Darth Vader by Kylo Ren in TFA is completely dropped in TLJ. :Smile_sceptic:

Who is Supreme Leader Snoke?  What is he?  Where did he come from?  How did he rise to power in the wake of Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader's death and the collapse of the Galactic Empire?  TFA didn't expand on this AT ALL and lots of us were expecting TLJ to expand on this.  When TLJ ended, we still don't know any more about the background of this character.  When TLJ ended, I can safely say that little boy Padawan Anakin Skywalker on a tantrum is more dangerous than Snoke.  This supposedly powerful son-of-a-b*tch goes several minutes boasting to Kylo Ren and Rey of how he has been pulling strings, how he KNOWS EVERY THOUGHT OF HIS STUDENT AND KNOWS HE WILL NEVER EVER BETRAY HIM, only to be betrayed by a simple parlor trick by his student.  One of the lamest major villains in the entirety of Star Wars movies.  FFS, give me Dooku, Maul, Sidious, Vader than this f*cking c*nt joker!  TFA built this c&nt to be all menacing, mysterious figure that I was eager to find more about.  Instead he's a godd*mn joke in TLJ :Smile_facepalm:

Phasma is a terrible joke.  In TFA, her appearance is super cool because she is the first female Stormtrooper shown in the movies, even going back to the OT / Galactic Empire era.  IMO, Disney could have done some really cool expansion with her, showing how the new Stormtrooper forces are, how diverse it is and not the clone oriented army of decades past.  They really could have shown how bad@ss she is.  Instead, she is worse than Boba Fett.  You see, Boba Fett in the OT had very little screentime.  Us fans blew up him up to be bigger than what he was onscreen, and Lucas, the old expanded universe took off with that.  But Phasma was a standout.  Tall, chrome armor, answered to the highest leadership of the First Order, a female Stormtrooper in charge of others.  This wasn't some bounty hunter or some random bum off the street in Mos Eisley.  She was a leading figure in the First Order, a standout.  But she's incompetent.:Smile_facepalm:

We still don't know how the f--k the First Order, which was really a fragment of the old Galactic Empire, somehow has taken over the Galaxy.  The tool they had to cow the galaxy to submit to them, Starkiller Base, was destroyed in TFA.  But somehow the galaxy has cowered and submitted to the First Order. :Smile_facepalm:

But hey, we got Rose now as a random, out-of-the-blue love triangle between Finn, Rey, and her.  WELL GEE, I WONDER WHICH GIRL WILL WIN OUT IN THAT? :Smile_facepalm:

Seriously, there are so many elements this movie s--ts on.  Not just old Star Wars stuff, but even new stuff introduced with TFA.  I have never seen a Star Wars movie mock its own franchise the way TLJ does.

 

Loved Blade Runner 2049, great sequel and it actually pulls it off by being a very well made movie in its own right, while still respecting the preceding movie.  I had my doubts about 2049 but after seeing it, it was an amazing film and I walked away very happy with that flick.  I still need to check Dunkirk out.

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4 hours ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

I will say this don't listen to people who say the movie sucks, it is a great movie. The problem is that people expected one thing and got something else so they are upset. It's a great movie.

Can I at least get a movie that makes sense?  Because well over half the s--t happening in TLJ had no reason for happening, or could have been easily avoided.

Spoiler

I expected to see more Luke training Rey, but we don't get much of that at all.  Instead we get the absolutely random, out-of-the-blue Finn-Rose romance.  WTH???  Was that too much to ask for a Star Wars film re-introducing Luke Skywalker after over 30 years?  He doesn't go with Rey to fight alongside the remnants of the Resistance, but he still freaking dies across the galaxy?  Are you serious?


I mean, I was in the theater holding back not to say "What the f--k" out loud.

 

Something to reflect on, what you may have been thinking before TLJ came out.

Spoiler

05e45a21694d0c861eeb23199c5a2f00.jpg

5b86bfda4a5d668c25fa1af112218eb6.jpg

 

Another edit, something positive about TLJ namely about Kylo Ren:

Spoiler

Kylo Ren's a better character this time around and isn't second fiddle.  You see, people gave a lot of flak about Kylo Ren in TFA but I personally liked how he was a flawed villain, like he wasn't really sold on the path he's taken.  A great part was the conflict he had when he had the chance to fire on the Rebel Cruiser's bridge when the shields were focused aft, and he knew Leia was there.  He was going to pull the trigger but couldn't and I like to think Han's death still weighs on him.  He couldn't repeat the process again.  However, the lack of background between Kylo Ren, Snoke holds back further development of this character.  Another aspect that TLJ dropped in his background was the TFA scene where everyone was calling the Knights of Ren.  The total dropping of his pursuit of Darth Vader as if to find approval, acceptance, vindication on the path he's taken.  To the point he found and kept Vader's ruined helmet and he went out of his way to get Anakin Skywalker's lightsaber.  All that is gone in TLJ with no fanfare.

 

There are things that can be done better with this villain.  A few things in TLJ expand on this but so much more could have been done.

 

Right now, there is something more special about Kylo Ren than the face of the new part of the franchise, Rey.  Kylo Ren is a Skywalker by blood, he has an interesting story to him, he is a flawed character, he is a villain.  Rey is now just another force sensitive.

 

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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4 hours ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

I will say this don't listen to people who say the movie sucks, it is a great movie. The problem is that people expected one thing and got something else so they are upset. It's a great movie.

I didn't go in with expectations outside of "I hope this is good."

 

I'm one of those people who didn't glue myself to fan theories about Snoke or what Luke was doing, because I wanted to be open minded and see where the story was going to go.

 

The story didn't go very far.  A third of the movie was wasted on side-story hijinks that ultimately didn't accomplish anything in the plot.  During a giant life-or-death chase scene on a time limit.  Which had the same starting line and finishing line(Rebels gotta escape the planet).

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You gotta give Lucas credit, he knew how to make memorable villains.  Darth Vader, The Emperor, Darth Maul, Dooku, Belloq, Mola Ram.  They had their roots in the cheesy serials of old but they were intense enough to be remembered and homaged.  Lately, Disney-Marvel villains have been completely forgettable.

 

Hmm, the prequel’s big problem was that episode 1 & 2 served as act 1, and Episode 3 acted as act 2 in the story, leaving out the resolution.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2017/12/17/16787500/star-wars-the-last-jedi-story-rian-johnson-episode-9-jj-abrams

 

 

Edited by Sventex

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8 hours ago, Wolcott said:

Neither were midi-chlorians and virgin births.

I read somewhere that midi-chlorians were a part of the lore back in the first three movies according to Lucas, just never a spot to introduce it.  He had it as part of the universe.

With stopping a laser bolt, you had some powerful Jedi and Sith and no mention of it.  Just seemed very far fetched to me.  And reading minds, that broke canon to me.  Unless you're adding in a new power which isn't mentioned for some dumb reason.

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