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legozer

On Clan Membership and Individual Accountability

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Clan membership has its perks, and is a fun and rewarding aspect of the game now. It's a privilege to be a part of a good clan, and good can mean a lot of things: good/great players, good friends, good buoys, etc. I feel that clan membership should be treated as a privilege by all involved.

Of course, there are those that don't. They carry their clan's tag into every battle, act like knobs, belittle others, play selfishly and disrespect themselves, their team and their clan.

SO

I'd like to see some ideas about holding a clan accountable for the actions of its members. I have some ideas, but I'd like to hear some others before I float 'em (see all my subtle nautical references??? Clever, right?????). I think if a clan were held accountable for the crappy actions of some of its members, it would create some incentive for individuals to behave/play better, in a manner that respects the clan name. Conversely, perhaps some reward to the clan for having solid people as members.

DISCUSS

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If your going to hold a whole clan accountable for one member having a bad day what are you going to do with all the none clan people that do the same thing? just send a msg to the clan CO and let the clan handle it them self's.

 

I bet like my clan, most clans dont like their members acting badly. But you will always have the few the just like to troll others.

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I'd hate to be accountable for the members of my clan because I've only met one of them and that was only twice about a month ago. 

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Unfortunately, Laffey and Snarg are right; this is down to the leadership of the individual clans. It isn't as though every clan and player, even the non-affiliated ones, are beholden to some overall chain of command that can enforce rules. All we can hope for is that most of the clans out there actually give a damn about their reputation as groups, and that those clans who don't mind being the local equivalent of Goon Squads are kept to a minimum. For those of you who don't get the reference, it's a callback to the old (or is it still going?) SomethingAwful community, that was to the pre-2007 Internet what 4chan is to the "modern" web.

I know that my clan has a well-defined set of rules, known as the SOP, that have been in place since long before the game recognized clans—in fact, I helped to write them.

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20 minutes ago, LaffeyKaiNi said:

If your going to hold a whole clan accountable for one member having a bad day what are you going to do with all the none clan people that do the same thing? just send a msg to the clan CO and let the clan handle it them self's.

 

I bet like my clan, most clans dont like their members acting badly. But you will always have the few the just like to troll others.

 

I'm not talking draconian penalties or even penalties for an individual instance of poor conduct. I'm thinking more like ongoing issues.

21 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

I'd hate to be accountable for the members of my clan because I've only met one of them and that was only twice about a month ago. 

It's great to hear that you'd hate to be held accountable for the actions of a single member. Thaaaat's kinda the point...

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28 minutes ago, legozer said:

'd like to see some ideas about holding a clan accountable for the actions of its members. I have some ideas, but I'd like to hear some others before I float 'em (see all my subtle nautical references??? Clever, right?????). I think if a clan were held accountable for the crappy actions of some of its members, it would create some incentive for individuals to behave/play better, in a manner that respects the clan name. Conversely, perhaps some reward to the clan for having solid people as members.

Take the clan tag away from a player, it is still the same player.  People are going to be toxic especially with the anonymity of the internet in general man.  craptalking is apart of any game that all of us have to deal with, here you can at least chose whether or not you want to take part in it yourself or hit the mute button.  Don't get butt hurt by comments from a random guy sitting on his computer you will never see..even though sometimes you wish you could reach through the screen and smack a [edited].

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if its really bad WG will step in and handle it.

 

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11 minutes ago, knice_destroyer said:

Take the clan tag away from a player, it is still the same player.  People are going to be toxic especially with the anonymity of the internet in general man.  craptalking is apart of any game that all of us have to deal with, here you can at least chose whether or not you want to take part in it yourself or hit the mute button.  Don't get butt hurt by comments from a random guy sitting on his computer you will never see..even though sometimes you wish you could reach through the screen and smack a [edited].

 

You missed the part about how there are benefits to being in a clan/privilege, etc. Re-read the original post. See, you can let the non clan members act as they may. To hell with them; if you want the perks of being in a good clan, though, behave yourself. THAT'S THE POINT.

So, take the tag away from a player, he's still the same player. Yeah, of course, BUT he's not in a clan anymore, so screw that guy.

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12 minutes ago, LaffeyKaiNi said:

if its really bad WG will step in and handle it.

 

 

LOL ok.

 

That's ridiculous. WG instituted a toothless, worthless and senseless karma system as their answer to bad behaviour.

Keep dreaming.

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The clan I am in should in no way be held accountable for me being the south end of a north bound donkey. :Smile_hiding:

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21 minutes ago, Sweetsie said:

It's a video game. For profit. In a foreign country. It isn't real. 

 

Why have you posted 775 times on the forums?

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Clans do hold their members very much accountable. They just have values of their own, and what you might consider offensive, isn't so for them. Clans make their own rules of conduct within those provided by WG, and things have been going fairly well so far. Sure, there might be a few bad eggs, but the vast majority of the people I meet in battle are nice, and relatively good people, clan or no clan. 

Like has been mentioned, if the leadership of a clan becomes aware of actions they disapprove of, they'll likely talk with the members. Other than that, there's not really anything to be done. After all, if a player is a right crap-hole, they'll still be one outside of a clan.  

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13 minutes ago, legozer said:

 

Why have you posted 775 times on the forums?

that is one heck of a good question, why have you posted 328 times, why have some posted over 20k times.... you have me stumped. I really hope to learn why you have posted 328 times as I hope it sheds light on why I have posted as well. 

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1 hour ago, legozer said:

Clan membership has its perks, and is a fun and rewarding aspect of the game now. It's a privilege to be a part of a good clan, and good can mean a lot of things: good/great players, good friends, good buoys, etc. I feel that clan membership should be treated as a privilege by all involved.

Of course, there are those that don't. They carry their clan's tag into every battle, act like knobs, belittle others, play selfishly and disrespect themselves, their team and their clan.

SO

I'd like to see some ideas about holding a clan accountable for the actions of its members. I have some ideas, but I'd like to hear some others before I float 'em (see all my subtle nautical references??? Clever, right?????). I think if a clan were held accountable for the crappy actions of some of its members, it would create some incentive for individuals to behave/play better, in a manner that respects the clan name. Conversely, perhaps some reward to the clan for having solid people as members.

DISCUSS

Why do you want to create a system above and beyond that which Wargaming already has in place?  Are you the new "Anti-Bully Ranger" for the forum?

If the clan has a bunch of good citizens in it, and one guy goes off the rails - they just bounce him.  If it's a clan of nefarious "do badders" that harass crappy players, and one guy starts stat shaming you remorselessly, he will probably get cheered on.  It's all subjective, as long as you don't break Wargamings rules, you can do/say whatever you like.   You and the other 4 members of the clan you are in can set up whatever rules of behavior for the clan and impose them upon yourselves as you see fit.  Just don't attempt to impose them on others.

I don't need anymore rules imposed upon me during my entertainment/relaxation time.  You seem to want to set something like that up, so I really don't like you at all.  I suggest you just enjoy the game as the majority of us do, or create your own MMO.

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I'm not sure I buy the idea of holding the clan accountable overall,  but holding the leader or its leadership team accountable makes sense. 

You can, however, only impart authority to the limits of the offending member's loyalty... if that player doesn't respect the clan, the leadership or the role the leadership team plays in the clan's general disposition then there's not a lot that can be done. If you kick the guy out of your clan then he continues to be a [edited] nugget elsewhere. 

The way this is avoided is generally summed up by insuring the members of your clan understand what is expected of them and the consequences BEFORE they sign up. The ones who can't be bothered by the structure will go elsewhere to the benefit of the clan.

It's a proactive "weeding out" process that can work- depending on what your goals are. 

 

As for perks for having good people, I think that's something the clan should manage on its own. 

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9 minutes ago, BiggieD61 said:

Why do you want to create a system above and beyond that which Wargaming already has in place?  Are you the new "Anti-Bully Ranger" for the forum?

If the clan has a bunch of good citizens in it, and one guy goes off the rails - they just bounce him.  If it's a clan of nefarious "do badders" that harass crappy players, and one guy starts stat shaming you remorselessly, he will probably get cheered on.  It's all subjective, as long as you don't break Wargamings rules, you can do/say whatever you like.   You and the other 4 members of the clan you are in can set up whatever rules of behavior for the clan and impose them upon yourselves as you see fit.  Just don't attempt to impose them on others.

I don't need anymore rules imposed upon me during my entertainment/relaxation time.  You seem to want to set something like that up, so I really don't like you at all.  I suggest you just enjoy the game as the majority of us do, or create your own MMO.

 

Uh...that was my point, man. If a clan has a bunch of solid guys and one is an idiot, it should come to their attention and he gets bounced. THAT WAS THE POINT OF THE WHOLE IDEA. Also, I don't care if you like me, but thanks anyway.

There are a lot of discussions about bad play and behaviour and how it can be better addressed. I have an idea that I floated (WITHOUT SPECIFICS) and asked if anyone else had thoughts on it. I DID NOT propose new rules that will kill your precious relaxation time. Get over yourself.

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5 minutes ago, ENO75 said:

I'm not sure I buy the idea of holding the clan accountable overall,  but holding the leader or its leadership team accountable makes sense. 

You can, however, only impart authority to the limits of the offending member's loyalty... if that player doesn't respect the clan, the leadership or the role the leadership team plays in the clan's general disposition then there's not a lot that can be done. If you kick the guy out of your clan then he continues to be a [edited] nugget elsewhere. 

The way this is avoided is generally summed up by insuring the members of your clan understand what is expected of them and the consequences BEFORE they sign up. The ones who can't be bothered by the structure will go elsewhere to the benefit of the clan.

It's a proactive "weeding out" process that can work- depending on what your goals are. 

 

As for perks for having good people, I think that's something the clan should manage on its own. 

 

That's a good idea. It's why I started the topic. I'm also listening to Warm Jets right now, so it may have created a bias...

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How/who would you hold a clan accountable? If you leave it up to the general public well it will get abused, if you leave it to WG people cry about  favoritism and mass drama will ensue. We have in game rules and punishments to got along with them. There's also this sweet feature where you can blacklist people in game.

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55 minutes ago, BiggieD61 said:

Are you the new "Anti-Bully Ranger" for the forum?

Considering that this was the same guy who created multiple (locked/deleted) threads about the supposedly dire need of broader ethnic diversity in ship captains, well, it doesn't take a genius to add two and two to make five, if you know what I mean.

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The only thing I can do if someone in my clan is a constant toxic jerk is to kick them from the clan. Doesn't stop them from being toxic...

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Some clans have rules to be respectful to other players, so they might kick whoever tries to go berserk, but others don't care much I guess.

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one thing keeps me wondering why this is even a problem. T.O.S.  Follow the rules set in TOS or suffer the consequences. The system works and to extend the rules to involve groups is ludicrous. One bad Apple..... sound familiar?  

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4 hours ago, legozer said:

 

You missed the part about how there are benefits to being in a clan/privilege, etc. Re-read the original post. See, you can let the non clan members act as they may. To hell with them; if you want the perks of being in a good clan, though, behave yourself. THAT'S THE POINT.

So, take the tag away from a player, he's still the same player. Yeah, of course, BUT he's not in a clan anymore, so screw that guy.

"Screw that guy" if he's not in a clan. And people still wonder how clans/guilds promote an elitist attitude among the player base.

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