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NoZoupForYou

Is WG Hurting Ship Releases with Excessive Changes? Discuss

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The video lays out my feelings.  WG is hurting themselves by giving Ships, previewing them then tanking them back for changes ranging from small to large.  It kills hype.  Personally, I much rather see (and show) a finished product.  What are your thoughts?  Is the trend good?  Or does it sour you to premium ships you might have bought.  Keep on mind this happens with regular lines as well.  Aka, the German DD debacle.

 

 

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It is not excessive changes by WG it is IMO CCs getting the ships too early but then again WG has a pretty quick update cycle so it would be hard for you guys and gals to have them long enough to give an accurate review. Not sure what the solution would be other than to go to a 2 month cycle. 

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Ideally people would keep their own hype under control when they know what's being shown is a WIP. Time has proven that's not realistic though. A /lot/ of people are going to get their heart set on something that's not finalized, whether they love it or hate it, and are going to be loath to accept that the reality of that thing has changed. 

It would probably be better for WG to finish a new ship, give it to the review crowd, and then release it a week later, than give to the review folks while it's still under development. 

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Wow changed them already! I watch this when I get off work.

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I disagree, the response to and changes to the Kidd kept me paying attention, made me interested, and ultimately bought one of the few Premium Ships I've ever bought. Without the back and forth and community rendering their attitude towards the less than interesting initial test, it may not have came out in the form that I enjoy now. Transparency is not a bad thing.

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I actually think  WGing is hurting itself with excessive releases.  There are so many upcoming Premium Ships coming out, my head is spinning.  But these changes I think are important, because we don't want another unfinished Graf Zeppelin shoved at us.  The Duke of York was just a gimmick for the sake of a gimmick, which wouldn't be necessary if the shop wasn't being flooded with upcoming Premiums.  There's a lack of focus.

  If WGing is desperate for a Battleship/Cruiser hybrid, they still got 2 other Panzerschiffe to experiment with.

Edited by Sventex

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I'd rather have them overreact to feedback than another Graf Zeppelin debacle. I like the Duke of York idea to make it a different playstyle but it goes against a battleship's role. Making it a straight up premium clone of the KGV is disappointing, but if its free should we really care? Just wish WG would focus on unique premiums like the Roma and other ships that don't fit inside the in-game ship lines. I find those are the most interesting, the models that aren't reused and provide a different flavor in matches.

Edited by KonigstigerVII
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No. 

I remember when everything in development was SUPER TOP SEKRET and leaks could only be discussed off the official forums. I prefer the new age of transparency, even if it does cause a lot of salt. At least you're much more informed of what you're getting now. 

 

I wonder what people would say if they knew how many changes happened that never even make it out of St. Petersburg... 

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Wow.  Already it appears there is a pretty split view on this.  This is good though...  

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Zoup, I think the view is split, because the answer is both that WG is hurting the hype, but also helping the release process.  The CC videos of WiP ships, help highlight to many players just what the papers numbers mean when translated to the actual game.  Sometimes this means people don't like a ship being reviewed which hurts hype.  However enough early feedback can get needed changes implemented, so in that way it helps.  

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How to premium: Make it unique from the tech tree ships, without being overpowered.

 

 

How not to make a premium: Make it better than comparable tier ships.

 

 

The problem with that whole theory is - premiums tend to have the gimmicks. and its sometimes hard to balance gimmicks. For example, the Dunk is a fine premium at tier 6. It's got its gimmick (bow on 8 guns forward, fast shells) but everything else about it is decidedly mediocre, or poor. Compare that to the Tirptiz, which was decided overpowered compared to other ships of it's tier with great armor, torpedoes, big guns, speed, secondaries - the only downside was it's sometimes wonky dispersion and normal pen damage (sometimes.)  Or compare to the Konig Albert (were WG didn't learn from the Nikolai mistake) or against the Belfast/Kuter.

There are few balanced premium ships - because Gimmicks make it hard to balance things. The lower on the tier tree you get, the harder it is to balance a boat without breaking it completely, or making it completely useless (Mikasa 99% of the time.)

Thankfully, the capability for WG to modify ships overtime is present (patches!) And they do seem to have 'some' interest in keeping it all balanced. Except when they took away OWS. RIP Blys.

Edited by aether_tech

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Honestly IMO the problem isn’t the changes being made, its the amount of new ships being released. Don’t get me wrong, I love new content as much as the next person, but after new ship after new ship after new line after new ship, with more new ships on the way, it just gets a tad bit....old after a while. I’d much rather see some new maps or balance changes to existing maps and such

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I'm tired of the gimmicks they are throwing around which weaken other classes.  Or when in doubt....give it super AA.  

Give BBs BB gimmicks, and repeat for DDs and CA/CLs.

Stop trying to be cute...with constant changes that make no sense.

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1 minute ago, KongoPride said:

I'm tired of the gimmicks they are throwing around which weaken other classes. Or when in doubt....give it super AA.

Give BBs BB gimmicks, and repeat for DDs and CA/CLs.

Stop trying to be cute...with constant changes that make no sense.

I agree overall, but sometimes it's nice to have a ship of a specific type with a non-normal gimmick. But WG is just bad at balancing - and giving the wrong gimmick to certain ships. Or overloading a ship with gimmicks. But hey, release it now, sell it, make money, patch later.

Edited by aether_tech

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We have extremes in the Graf Zeppelin and Imperator Nikolai.  Guess that's what the OP wants?  Completely broken or way OP premiums.

Or the OP could state its a WIP he's dealing with and tell people that and give good reports back to WG so they can make good corrections to the ship to make it fun when its released.

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Testing is a must, Zoup. I don't like seeing premium prototypes getting shoved all over the map like the Graf Zeppelin and Duke of York, but sometimes the original idea that the developers have for a ship may be way off the charts and only supertesters can wring the ship out in gameplay and give the developers some feedback, and guidance if that is what is needed. I do recognize marketing drives a lot of this, as the user base demands different qualities in the same ship for a large variety of reasons, mostly related to personal playstyle and preferences. Kidd, which I passed on, reflects demand from their core base for a square bridge Fletcher. As a case in point, Kidd, a decent T8, would have been a buy for me if she had been give a single 5-tube torpedo mount with Fletcher's torpedoes in addition to her AA improvements, based on my personal preferences. You cannot make everybody happy with every ship you release, unfortunately....

Edited by GrandAdmiral_2016

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12 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

Zoup, I think the view is split, because the answer is both that WG is hurting the hype, but also helping the release process.  The CC videos of WiP ships, help highlight to many players just what the papers numbers mean when translated to the actual game.  Sometimes this means people don't like a ship being reviewed which hurts hype.  However enough early feedback can get needed changes implemented, so in that way it helps.  

I think you have probably nailed it.  Feedback can indeed be good.  A problem though is that everyone wants different things in the game and has different skill levels.  And while a 100% dont Preview is a rarity, I rather see small tweaks after a release then a preview followed by major tweaks before.

I know the STs get frustrated, we the CCs get frustrated, then the community gets frustrated.  Don’t know that there’s a good solution outside of giving CCs ships later in the test cycle or just prior to release.

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The one thing that kills my desire to buy a ship more than anything else, is the over use of GIMMICKS. I hate gimmicks. I feel they're stupid, pointless, and cause way more balance issues than anything else. (seriously whats next? Smoke generator on a bloody battleship? Ffs...)

 

When I see a ship thats well rounded and doesn't have any gimmicks (Arizona for example) theres a very strong chance I'll probably buy it. Arizona is a very VERY solid example that ships do not need gimmicks to be highly sought after or good at what they do.

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4 minutes ago, NoZoupForYou said:

I think you have probably nailed it.  Feedback can indeed be good.  A problem though is that everyone wants different things in the game and has different skill levels.  And while a 100% dont Preview is a rarity, I rather see small tweaks after a release then a preview followed by major tweaks before.

I know the STs get frustrated, we the CCs get frustrated, then the community gets frustrated.  Don’t know that there’s a good solution outside of giving CCs ships later in the test cycle or just prior to release.

The frustration levels seem muted.  These ships haven't been released yet, so I don't see anyone getting their torches ready like they did with the Graf Zeppelin.  Maybe the frustration is mainly with the CCs who fall in love with a ship that disappears forever because of the changes?  I myself, avoid hyping myself until the release day.

Edited by Sventex

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2 minutes ago, NoZoupForYou said:

I think you have probably nailed it.  Feedback can indeed be good.  A problem though is that everyone wants different things in the game and has different skill levels.  And while a 100% dont Preview is a rarity, I rather see small tweaks after a release then a preview followed by major tweaks before.

I know the STs get frustrated, we the CCs get frustrated, then the community gets frustrated.  Don’t know that there’s a good solution outside of giving CCs ships later in the test cycle or just prior to release.

What about like they did with the GZ for the player testing for those who bought it.  Have a DoY with Heal, DoY without heal, etc (basically one of each of the major paths they might go), and let those go out to the reviewers.  

 

It will take longer, but at least then you can review in a compare and contrast fashion between the different options, and WG can get direct feedback about which live version the playerbase best responds to.

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I don't know if changes are the problem, but a lot of the starting ideas just seem pretty bad.

  • Kidd trading torpedo armament for AA - a bad idea in a low carrier world
  • Huang He at T6 - hahahahahaha
  • Duke of York Cruiser Edition - Worst of both worlds will be good right?! Nope, oh now it's just same only worse
  • Graf Zeppelin - 6s drop delay on DB's so you can't even tell it worked, otherwise rubbish - just a bad plan
  • Conqueror - Radar on a BB... oh thank goodness, sanity reigns
  • Salem - oh it's shockingly a clone?! (of course it's a clone...) Err, consumable time!

If you had more sensible starting ideas, or tested the more extreme things purely internally then we wouldn't get to this point so much.

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I think the worst part of all the changes is that I alelways think “oh man what this ship COULD have been”. As in the German DDs, I was so hyped up and once the nerf bat hit, it was all gone. The German DDs have a niche maybe, but the current version is very vanilla and some of the choices are downright sad. The torp damage is the same as a tier 6 dd even on the tier 10, but hey you can fire more of them right with the super fast reload? Yeah nothing better than broadsiding a battleships with 7 torpedoes and having it live with 40 percent health( there is this torpedo damage reduction mechanic that is involved evidently, and I guess it gets better as the tiers get higher? But the German dd torps never do more damage...you do the math and see how that works out). So yeah when they nerf a ship that had excitement to it into a standard B.B. clone or whatever, it kills my interest in the ship. My premium buying has slowed down severely as a result, and I used to literally buy every premium that came out. The Krasny started a bad trend and I didn’t buy it and am very sceptical of each new ship, I always see what Zoup and LWM say about the ship first.

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There are times when I truly believe Marketing and Development don't know what the other side is planning. Alabama is one example and GZ is another on the NA server. Maybe the issue is server preferences. Also how low (or high) the skill floor is required. Too low and you'll have players crying OP!. Too high and not many folks would buy it,  much less play it. There had been times when I feel WG is pulling a bait and switch. Bring out a premium, people cry OP, then premium gets nerfed or pulled out of the market. So you can see a growing reluctance to purchase a ship that they'll change at their discretion. Normally for the worse. Look at the Atlanta. It was a decent open water CL when it was introduced. Now it can only survive when hugging islands or working with other ships ( and praying the red tm doesn't decide to kill it first).

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24 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

What about like they did with the GZ for the player testing for those who bought it.  Have a DoY with Heal, DoY without heal, etc (basically one of each of the major paths they might go), and let those go out to the reviewers.  

 

It will take longer, but at least then you can review in a compare and contrast fashion between the different options, and WG can get direct feedback about which live version the playerbase best responds to.

See...  I’m fine with this idea, and let the STs deal with it on their side.  Then present a final form.

 

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27 minutes ago, Kitsunelegend said:

When I see a ship thats well rounded and doesn't have any gimmicks (Arizona for example) theres a very strong chance I'll probably buy it. Arizona is a very VERY solid example that ships do not need gimmicks to be highly sought after or good at what they do.

Vampire is the same.

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