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KalishniKat

Nerf Saipan Now

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A ship carrying Korean War era A1 Skyraiders sinking World War 1 battleships.... it's just stupid and wrong.  At least give it WW2 planes like Helldivers, not Korean war planes, hell they are even in Korean war insignia. Very bad idea for a wallet warrior annoying CV. Where's our tier 7 Gearings and Rochesters for balance?????

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I still manage to lose my T9 Saipan planes to tier 6 BBs and the small torpedo squads means that you can never do serious amount of damage in 1 drop against a BB.

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18 minutes ago, KalishniKat said:

A ship carrying Korean War era A1 Skyraiders sinking World War 1 battleships.... it's just stupid and wrong.  At least give it WW2 planes like Helldivers, not Korean war planes, hell they are even in Korean war insignia. Very bad idea for a wallet warrior annoying CV. Where's our tier 7 Gearings and Rochesters for balance?????

Um...no.

First of all, what form the planes themselves are in is immaterial; WG could have them be F-14B Bombcats, as long as they go at the same speed and deliver ordnance with the same stats as the AD-1s that Saipan ships out with now. Second of all, haven't we long since established that this is an arcade boat game, and not even in the same star system as anything resembling a "simulator"?

But then again, this is just a whine thread, so I don't know why I'm even bothering to respond in even a semi-serious capacity.

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25 minutes ago, Goodwood_Alpha said:

Um...no.

First of all, what form the planes themselves are in is immaterial; WG could have them be F-14B Bombcats, as long as they go at the same speed and deliver ordnance with the same stats as the AD-1s that Saipan ships out with now. Second of all, haven't we long since established that this is an arcade boat game, and not even in the same star system as anything resembling a "simulator"?

But then again, this is just a whine thread, so I don't know why I'm even bothering to respond in even a semi-serious capacity.

And why is it that some people are such mental midgets that they can't understand the concept that it's not a binary thing?  That's it doesn't have to be either (A) an arcade game or (B) a hardcore simulator?

Furthermore, it gets damned annoying hearing this incredibly lame excuse over and over and over again.

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

And why is it that some people are such mental midgets that they can't understand the concept that it's not a binary thing?  That's it doesn't have to be either (A) an arcade game or (B) a hardcore simulator?

Furthermore, it gets damned annoying hearing this incredibly lame excuse over and over and over again.

It's a spectrum, yes, but you can't really argue that this game falls anywhere on the other side from the middle point between arcade and simulation. And yes, it very much is a relevant point for discussion when it comes to the substance of the OP's complaint, which essentially boils down to "lol plane type wrong."

Granted, there are arguments to be made regarding the Saipan and her power level (it isn't over 9000), but this isn't one of them.

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4 minutes ago, Goodwood_Alpha said:

It's a spectrum, yes, but you can't really argue that this game falls anywhere on the other side from the middle point between arcade and simulation. And yes, it very much is a relevant point for discussion when it comes to the substance of the OP's complaint, which essentially boils down to "lol plane type wrong."

Granted, there are arguments to be made regarding the Saipan and her power level (it isn't over 9000), but this isn't one of them.

I don't disagree that it falls closer to arcade than sim, and that's fine.  I just get incredibly annoyed at the people who absolutely REFUSE TO ADMIT IT!!!

Mind you, I don't really have much of an opinion on this specific issue (i.e. the Saipan, etc.).  I just happen to think that there are so many things in this game that could be made more realistic ... in an arcade-y way.  And it annoys the living heII out of me that some people are such mental midgets that they can't grasp the very concept.  They always seem to think that arcade-y has to mean grossly unrealistic.

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1 minute ago, Crucis said:

And it annoys the living heII out of me that some people are such mental midgets that they can't grasp the very concept.  They always seem to think that arcade-y has to mean grossly unrealistic.

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are mental midgets. In fact, I would probably agree with you more often than not with regards to how this game is and perhaps could be improved, etc.. In point of fact, I'm not quite sure whether you are disagreeing with my original response and agreeing with the OP, or the other way around.

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2 minutes ago, Goodwood_Alpha said:

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are mental midgets. In fact, I would probably agree with you more often than not with regards to how this game is and perhaps could be improved, etc.. In point of fact, I'm not quite sure whether you are disagreeing with my original response and agreeing with the OP, or the other way around.

Didn't read the sentence beginning with "Mind you", did ya?  I pretty much don't care about this Saipan issue one way or t'other.

As for the rest, when they can't understand what I said above, then IMO they truly are mental midgets unless they can prove otherwise.   And it's quite clear from most responses I get on this general concept that they do NOT understand this concept.  Not disagree. Don't understand.  Period.

 

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54 minutes ago, KalishniKat said:

A ship carrying Korean War era A1 Skyraiders sinking World War 1 battleships.... it's just stupid and wrong.  At least give it WW2 planes like Helldivers, not Korean war planes, hell they are even in Korean war insignia. Very bad idea for a wallet warrior annoying CV. Where's our tier 7 Gearings and Rochesters for balance?????

Well, slight problem with your argument is the fact that the AD-1 Skyraider started production shortly after the end of the war, So while it did not participate in the war, it is a plane of that era. Another is that if you go look in game, you'll see that the SB2C differs clearly only in 2 stats, speed and HP, and less clearly in 1 that only shows when you play, drop circle. Skyraider's use the exact same bomb as the SB2C, that has a max damage of 10800. They only seem stronger because of the tighter circle and 2 extra planes. So, they could switch it to the Helldiver, however, there was a period in testing it was a tech tree ship and people raged about it not getting proper aircraft, but the result would be the same as it is now.

The Saipan, because of time, changes, etc, has actually already lost quite a bit of power and honestly there is not much they can nerf. They balanced it on a knife edge and where once it truly ruled tier 7, now that players need only 10 points to get tier 4 skills and know about it, it's become far easier to defeat. Basically everyone has DFE and AS which helps, AA has seen several buffs since it's inclusion, direct and indirect, which leaves changing the bombers but what are you gonna change? Accuracy? that's the one thing they really have going from them. Damage? It's the same bomb as the other USN tier 8+ planes and has to see tier 9's. 

Don't get me wrong, the ship is a problem, but CV's as a whole have so many that need fixing that trying to make Saipan balanced is impossible till that happens.

 

It's also an unwritten rule that generally, they don't nerf premiums. Also, AD-1's and 2's are going to stay because premium ships are historically accurate to a point in their life span, why E uses the tier 7 planes, Kaga the tier 6, GZ the tier 6 planes that have tier 7ish stats that they tried to pass as tier 8's, the premium French cruiser looks different because it was finished to it's WW2 design not he post war one, Belfast has no torps, Tirpitz does, etc.

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Well, if it's an arcade, why not give Saipan F9F Panthers?? I figure its just as realistic for my Iron Duke or New York or Konig to face them as it is to face Skyraiders. I know realism and history are long out the window with this game, but come on,  Skyradiers vs. old WW1 BBs..it's silly. 

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Eh, the only real annoying thing about it is the get "out of jail strafe card." Aside from that its fine as it is(if you don't count the re-work issues). It tends suffer the same perils as any CV would.

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1) Wargaming never ever nerfs premiums. If they feel it's overpowered, they will simply permanently remove it from the store. The only time a premium is nerfed is when a global change is applied to a weapon type or game mechanic.

2) Really? Another nerf Saipan thread? You couldn't have just commented on one of the several dozen that have been created since it was first sold? I mean, isn't it obvious by now that (1) Wargaming never ever nerfs premiums?

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The Saipan is fine as is. If you get a chance, try it out on the test server if not on the live one.

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4 hours ago, Crucis said:

it's not a binary thing... it doesn't have to be either (A) an arcade game or (B) a hardcore simulator

Exactly. I think of WOWS much in the same way that I do a good historical fiction novel. A good historical novel may take a few liberties where precise historicity is concerned but this is fine if it entertains and yet gives one a good overall sense of what it might have been like to live back then and participate in the historical events of the time.

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There is 2 way to deal with Saipan : Play T1-4 or play T8-10.

 

T1-4: You don't face any saipan 

 

T8-10 : Your AA is decent considering the number of planes per squadron.

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Ahhhh, the Saipan abomination....yep,  it needs a rewrite. Its only a T5 CV bumped up to T7 because WG wanted to make more $$,  so they gave it a bunch of [edited] stats that royally annoy everyone.

 

I dont begrudge WG making $, its a business and profit rules but really.....this ship is a royal pain in the butt.

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5 hours ago, Magic_Fighting_Tuna said:

Eh, the only real annoying thing about it is the get "out of jail strafe card." Aside from that its fine as it is(if you don't count the re-work issues). It tends suffer the same perils as any CV would.

The easy fix on that would be to slightly modify the strafe mechanic so that Saipan is not specifically excluded from losing a fighter.  I can accept that with only 3 fighters, perhaps losing one to strafe out is painful.  So, change the entire mechanic so that /any/ CV who only has 3 fighters or less remaining in a squadron is immune to losing a fighter if they strafe out.  That way Saipan, when running the spare fighter will lose one when strafing out, and a normal IJN squadron would be immune once they lose a fighter anyway.

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Quite pathetic that most in this thread just laugh at people who do point out that the Saipan is on the upper end of the power scale (although without logically arguing what made it broken did open them up).  The ability to break fighter lock without losing a plane made it absurdly strong.

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8 hours ago, Ducky_shot said:

ever ran it in a tier 9 game with a pile of aa cruisers??? Far from OP

Performs just fine in them. I've taken hits from Saipan's planes in my AA spec's Missouri. Ship is, and always has been blatantly broken as hell.

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