Loyang VS HSF Harikaze

[sasquatch_research]

Hey

I only have up to Tier 7 DD (Maass- 10pt capt.) and am looking between the Loyang and Harikazi, both of which are in store now.  Which one would you put your money on and why?  Which 10pt capt skills?  (PT, LS, ?, ?)   OR best to use some funds (XP) and get Z-23 instead ( I do have a 15pt captain I could use).  Thanks.

 

Pete

[evilleMonkeigh]

Yes - get Lo Yang.  A Benson (one of best T8 DDs) with great Hydro. Dominate caps. Useful torpedoes.

No - avoid Harekaze. An IJN DD (Kagero) with a few different gun options. Which are irrelevant as they are not particularly good gun options - you still won't outshoot anything but another IJN DD (and it has lower HP than most T7 DDs...)

I didn't find the Z23 better than the Maas, and it has horrid MM facing T10s regularly. Certainly don't spend any free XP to rush there.
 

[Captain_Benevolent_Fair]

While I personally never bought the Lo Yang (I might buy it in the future, if it's still available), I do believe it holds many advantages over the Harekaze as far as DD hunting goes. It's basically an american DD under a pan-asian flag, so it has pretty good guns, but a somewhat mediocre set of torpedoes. It also has the highly valuable american smoke and an also highly valuable hydro with a spotting range that is just 0.4km shorter than your concealment with a full concealment build. The downside is, as I said, that these advantages are mostly suited to deal with enemy destroyers, but less so against the other classes.

On the other hand, Harekaze is basically a torpedo boat that can have a sting against enemy DDs that is unexpected from any japanese DD except the Akizuki. It's the most stealthy ship of her tier alongside the ship she's based on (the Kagero), and while it does carry better options for armaments compared to her tech tree counterpart, it's only after getting a 14 point captain that the ship can truly start to outshine the Kagero. It has 3 gun options, the first is for people who have some weird fetish with IJN 127mm guns, as it's exactly the same gun you see in the Kagero. The second is basically a pocket Akizuki that is the only option that matters once you get that 14 point captain equiped with IFHE (don't expect this to make her a proper gunboat, but more of a threat to already damaged targets). The third is what you use until you get a 14 point captain, a set of american 127mm guns that would be pretty good, if only you weren't two guns behind a B hull Farragut/Mahan/Benson and a Fletcher; they are good guns, but you just don't have enough of them to rely upon.

So you see how many times I mentioned the importance of a 14 point captain to make the Harekaze start to shine on the gun department, something the Lo Yang doesn't need, as it does just fine with a 10 point commander. Harekaze may leave a sour taste without these 14 points, as regardless of the options it has, they all will feel just as poor as the original guns from the kagero. She can be defined with a phrase: "You either die a torpedoboat, or live enough to get actually useful guns". But the torpedoes are much better than those of the Lo Yang, making it much better at dealing with enemy battleships and even cruisers. There's a lot to like in the torpedoes if you are more familiar with the IJN playstyle.

So basically, Lo Yang - Amazing gunboat and cap contester with mediocre torpedoes, Harekaze - Stealthy torpedoboat with poor gun performance without a specialized commander.

But the Harekaze also has another bonus over the Lo Yang (and one available to only 3 premium ships), it has better bonuses from it's camo, that being the +100% more free XP (also available for the HSF Graf Spee and the Anshan, the latter of which is also a pretty good DD if you feel like looking into it). So if you want ships that help you accumulate free XP, Harekaze is definitely the better of the two, so long as you can deal with it's initial downsides.

And about the skills, regardless of your choice, you'll most definitely be taking Last Stand, Concealment Expert, Survivability Expert, and the choice between Priority Target or Preventive Maintenance as your core skills.

[DeadManxDan]

34 minutes ago, evilleMonkeigh said:

Yes - get Lo Yang.  A Benson (one of best T8 DDs) with great Hydro. Dominate caps. Useful torpedoes.

No - avoid Harekaze. An IJN DD (Kagero) with a few different gun options. Which are irrelevant as they are not particularly good gun options - you still won't outshoot anything but another IJN DD (and it has lower HP than most T7 DDs...)

I didn't find the Z23 better than the Maas, and it has horrid MM facing T10s regularly. Certainly don't spend any free XP to rush there.
 

The Harekaze with 100mm guns would beg to differ with you on DD gun fights.  The Harekaze is excellent however it takes a dedicates 19 pt captain to run 100mm guns.

[SireneRacker]

38 minutes ago, evilleMonkeigh said:

No - avoid Harekaze. An IJN DD (Kagero) with a few different gun options. Which are irrelevant as they are not particularly good gun options - you still won't outshoot anything but another IJN DD (and it has lower HP than most T7 DDs...)
 

I want to see a Harekaze outgunning an Akizuki, which is a same-Tier IJN DD.

[evilleMonkeigh]

Quote

The Harekaze with 100mm guns would beg to differ with you on DD gun fights.  The Harekaze is excellent however it takes a dedicates 19 pt captain to run 100mm guns.

Perhaps I haven't come across a super-specced unicum-driven one. (Unicums are out driving Kidds, anyway?)

I remember they having good dpm potential, but have never found them to be effective. They're pretty squishy (13k hitpoints?) and even the fast firing ones (100mm) have been easy to outfight. This is anecdotal*, of course, but I'd confidently face one in a Blyskawica or Leningrad at T7, let alone a T8 gunboat DD.

(*Just looked up the stats on warships today: certainly not setting scoreboards alight... Kidd is topping the table in most metrics)

[SkyRail]

I'll take Harekaze 24/7 just for the cute voice over.

plus I melt USN DD quite a lot in Harekaze

oh. I heard someone said Harekaze are not effective ??

Spoiler

 

 

[_WaveRider_]

Lo Yang!

Harekaze just doesn't have anything substantial to give it the WoW factor for me - no matter which variant you pick, there is another DD that does it better in the areas that I look for. For me it is similar to the Gallant; another great ship on paper but just turns out as a 'meh' experience when I use her. Just doesn't seem to have teeth.

Can you have a good game in a Harekaze - of course, at some point you can have a good game in any ship (I have had many in both the Harekaze and Gallant); it's just IMO the Lo Yang is better. It has that 'something' about it that makes it enjoyable to take out, for me the other 2 do not; I take them out because 'they are there'.

Maybe it's because the Lo Yang is an older premium DD? The new Aigle seems to play poorly in review and the T-61 is supposed to be very 'gud' - wonder which will be nerfed and which will probably stay unchanged?

[SkyRail]

35 minutes ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Lo Yang!

Harekaze just doesn't have anything substantial to give it the WoW factor for me - no matter which variant you pick, there is another DD that does it better in the areas that I look for. For me it is similar to the Gallant; another great ship on paper but just turns out as a 'meh' experience when I use her. Just doesn't seem to have teeth.

Can you have a good game in a Harekaze - of course, at some point you can have a good game in any ship (I have had many in both the Harekaze and Gallant); it's just IMO the Lo Yang is better. It has that 'something' about it that makes it enjoyable to take out, for me the other 2 do not; I take them out because 'they are there'.

Maybe it's because the Lo Yang is an older premium DD? The new Aigle seems to play poorly in review and the T-61 is supposed to be very 'gud' - wonder which will be nerfed and which will probably stay unchanged?

The most important factor is indeed the wow factor, and how much you enjoy it.

for me 100mm on kagero Hull is a “wow” for me.

and misaki akano as captain makes me enjoy it even more.

tbh, both are deadly in the right hand. 

[_WaveRider_]

9 hours ago, SkyRail said:

The most important factor is indeed the wow factor, and how much you enjoy it.

for me 100mm on kagero Hull is a “wow” for me.

and misaki akano as captain makes me enjoy it even more.

tbh, both are deadly in the right hand. 

Agree, everyone will have a different opinion regarding the ships they own (likes and dislikes).

I think it's great you get enjoyment from the anime side too (and who knows, that could be a positive factor for the OP(?)); are you able to let the OP know the 'why you like the 100mm guns', as this could further help his choice? I have gone for the 3x US guns - as the fire chance on top of the torps is my method of play with the ship. Who knows, you may convince me there is another viable config that will deliver the Wow factor for me; I'm always happy to change things around if there's more chance of enjoying the game. Thank you. 

[AnimaL21]

Thing I like the MOST about harekaze... its a premium that I can share any of my IJN dd captains on it for different setups without penalty.  Something that annoys me a little with anshan, (and would with lo yang) is that it only can train the PA captains. 

 I have 4 distinctly different 19pt IJN captains, and all of them change the harekaze a little.  Torp boat, gun boat, aa boat, and all around.  You can't say its the same as akizuki because of that ability to switch captains and builds on the fly.    My most used cap is full AA from my akizuki (no IFHE).  The main difference between the two is two racks of torps and better concealment for only giving up 2 100mm guns from the aki.  You gotta kindof decide what you're going for, but i find hare is nice all-around and i can do more consistent damage to BBs with it than I ever could with benson.   That 100mm AP on battleships can really tear them up without even talking about 8 torps (or 16 if u run trb).   I stole around 50,000hp from a montana yesterday inside one smoke cloud, and i didn't fire any torps.  Just volley after volley of 1000-2000 damage with AP.  Akizuki obviously does this better with guns, but you don't get 2 racks of torps unless your TRB is ready.  

I struggled to do decent damage with benson, and i think i would struggle with loyang in the same manner.   I run kidd when i want T8 USN DD action.  And I run sims when i want nimble lolbote action.   

[SkyRail]

2 hours ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Agree, everyone will have a different opinion regarding the ships they own (likes and dislikes).

I think it's great you get enjoyment from the anime side too (and who knows, that could be a positive factor for the OP(?)); are you able to let the OP know the 'why you like the 100mm guns', as this could further help his choice? I have gone for the 3x US guns - as the fire chance on top of the torps is my method of play with the ship. Who knows, you may convince me there is another viable config that will deliver the Wow factor for me; I'm always happy to change things around if there's more chance of enjoying the game. Thank you. 

US guns on harekaze is undergun imo, 3 guns set up is not enough for T8. 

100mm Akizuki gun however, is also quick firing, have good rotation, and provide best AA out of all 3 set up. (Tbh, i’ve Never lost any 1v1 gunfight using 100mm against another harekaze using US guns)

the downside is you need to spend 4 points for IFHE. But I share captain with my Akizuki, so I don’t mind it.

 

tip to use those 100mm guns on harekaze: you are not akizuki after all, don’t do long engagement. Burst your enemy, then go back to stealth if you cant win in short time. As long as you maintain the stealth supprise attack advantage, you can win a lot DD gun fight.

[sasquatch_research]

Hey

Anyone seen when the LoYang goes off sale?  Is it in the patch next Wed?

 

Pete

[MrKilmister]

On 12/17/2017 at 3:58 PM, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

Anyone seen when the LoYang goes off sale?  Is it in the patch next Wed?

 

Pete

Along a bunch of other premiums, Yolang will be available for doubloons in the tech tree starting tomorrow with 0.6.15. 

 

Yolang is a better cap controller than Kidd. 

[Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna]

Im a huge fan of the harekaze, shes my most played ship currently. 

 

shes not a cap contender, even with the 100mm guns shes gonna take too much damage in the exchange, for her small hp pool its just not worth it, instead shes more of a scout and has a nice barrage of torps to give her the edge on BB's  Cruisers are evil to her, every single shot you take will destroy rudder, steering or a turret... so rushing Cap at the start of a match is ill advised, ive found her to be very rewarding to captains who exercise the art of patience.

[sasquatch_research]

Hey

I got lucky and scored the LoYang in a Mega container yesterday.  So that answered which one I am going to get.  Also got a Blyskawica, a Gallant, and a Tirpitz.  Also got enough enough doubloons to get a DeGrasse cruiser and still have enough to get one of the following:  Lenningrad, Duca, or a Molotov, not sure which yet.

 

Pete

[Destroyer_KuroshioKai]

Both are DDs very capable at zoning other DDs out.  They do this very differently.

LY requires its consumables to temporarily force enemy DDs out of its detection range, where as Harekaze zones out the enemy via its spotting advantage and only enemy smoke can temporarily prevent this.

Both are very good DDs.  I have 19 point captains on both, and I am running Harekaze this season.

[Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna]

On 12/23/2017 at 1:35 PM, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Both are DDs very capable at zoning other DDs out.  They do this very differently.

LY requires its consumables to temporarily force enemy DDs out of its detection range, where as Harekaze zones out the enemy via its spotting advantage and only enemy smoke can temporarily prevent this.

Both are very good DDs.  I have 19 point captains on both, and I am running Harekaze this season.

Harekaze's stealth has allowed me to dev strike BB's on mor than one occasion. i personally use the torp reload cons, what are you running?

[Destroyer_KuroshioKai]

On 12/26/2017 at 4:49 PM, Fog_Battlecruiser_Haruna said:

Harekaze's stealth has allowed me to dev strike BB's on mor than one occasion. i personally use the torp reload cons, what are you running?

Definitely smoke.  Killing DDs is critical, and I want that margin of safety especially with the HP pool Harekaze has. 

[sasquatch_research]

Hey

I have to admit that I am having an absolute ball in the Blyskawica, having much fun in Leningrad (really needs that EM yet) and took the LoYang for a spin this morning and did rather well (don't remember score) but love those gun turret rotation speed, good handling, decent torps, just need to work on my skills but It's a good boat too.

 

Pete

[CaptainTeddybear]

They are both great. Harekaze 100mm guns are no slouch with a high point captain and your torpedos are usable in a Tier 10 game with lots of radar. The good Lo Yang torpedos are very short range. Lo Yang has the good hydro though so also very strong. Can't go wrong either way.