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Damage Stacking - CVs

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Now you've learnt how to do manual attacks from the previous videos, make sure you learn how to make the most out of your attacks through Damage Stacking.

 

See the complete series (WIP) of tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhX-9tFWCzgQHDrwCEm8_5c4bnlUTyZPe

 

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Looking good!

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Can I just say that is an EPIC thumbnail?

 

Also - I really enjoyed when you were on The Warships Podcast and on with iEarlGrey. It was just really good to listen to. 

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1 hour ago, megadeux said:

And this is why BBs hate us. :P

 

nah, they hate us for those point blank manual drops with torpedoes.

 

Pre 6.14 I'd have have said it needed a title like Dr. Strangelove adding "Or, how to actually deal damage with the American AS setup".

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Just now, WanderingGhost said:

 

nah, they hate us for those point blank manual drops with torpedoes.

 

Pre 6.14 I'd have have said it needed a title like Dr. Strangelove adding "Or, how to actually deal damage with the American AS setup".

Really? Cause after we do 20k with torps, we finish them with 40k in fires afterwards, it's very fun and engaging.

 

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7 minutes ago, megadeux said:

Really? Cause after we do 20k with torps, we finish them with 40k in fires afterwards, it's very fun and engaging.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, the ones who don't wait and get suckered hate it, but no different than the fact they get torped and burned by DD's or other ships in general. Any time they've REALLY been screaming is generally "these undodgeable torps sky cancer drops next to us" and various other descriptions of similar nature. Which even as a CV player, I have to agree with them and have been against the way it was implemented since it first showed up. It's always been about eating 6,8,12 torps at point blank where they can't dodge because those of us who've been around long enough know the only way to dodge it is turn in and account for that. Hell, it's only been nerfed once beyond all the AA buffs to try and counter it and that was the fact IJN aerial torps used to have an even shorter arm time that allowed them to be dropped about half a kilometer from the ship as opposed to the current 0.8 km.

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10 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

 

Don't get me wrong, the ones who don't wait and get suckered hate it, but no different than the fact they get torped and burned by DD's or other ships in general. Any time they've REALLY been screaming is generally "these undodgeable torps sky cancer drops next to us" and various other descriptions of similar nature. Which even as a CV player, I have to agree with them and have been against the way it was implemented since it first showed up. It's always been about eating 6,8,12 torps at point blank where they can't dodge because those of us who've been around long enough know the only way to dodge it is turn in and account for that. Hell, it's only been nerfed once beyond all the AA buffs to try and counter it and that was the fact IJN aerial torps used to have an even shorter arm time that allowed them to be dropped about half a kilometer from the ship as opposed to the current 0.8 km.

I always thought it was fair because of the ridiculous amount of time it takes to re arm and cycle to the next drop, on a whole CVs need about 3-5 minutes to cycle bombers, so having a high Alpha seems fair.  Especially considering that the role of the ship is to be a hard counter to bad team play.

Regardless, BBs still hate us and it doesn't really matter what they specifically hate.

(Although I think DDs hate us so much more)

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15 minutes ago, megadeux said:

I always thought it was fair because of the ridiculous amount of time it takes to re arm and cycle to the next drop, on a whole CVs need about 3-5 minutes to cycle bombers, so having a high Alpha seems fair.  Especially considering that the role of the ship is to be a hard counter to bad team play.

Regardless, BBs still hate us and it doesn't really matter what they specifically hate.

(Although I think DDs hate us so much more)

 

High alpha is one thing, it's the point blank drops where it goes a bit too far, long rearm or not. It's one thing to have that high alpha ability and have a scenario where I've landed 6/6 torps on I think it was a Neptune and it absolutely decimated it using auto drop. It's another to basically roll up to the doorstep and nuke them with no chance to dodge. And you have the fact trying to counter this mechanic which yes, should be countering bad team play, they've buffed AA to a point lone BB's can run out effectively immune to air attack, they don't need a cruisers help, cruisers are just plain disgusting, and even DD's are starting to get out of hand. I've lost 20 planes to a Benson before and last night due in part to the ingame storm making it even harder to spot I lost 50 planes in my Shokaku to a Kidd. Honestly, if it were really that big an issue of damage vs strike time, I'd rather they reduce our rearm times and give us another flight speed increase.

Though, I really only see an issue when the match ends in about 5 minutes, matches that go the distance, I'm fine with auto drops and current times dealing the damage. But even with manual torps, these fast roll matches can still just burn too fast to do very little.

 

But yes, BB's definetly hate us, and yeah, DD's are getting there because between a lot of BB's having high AA and being smarter sticking to cruisers/together, all that's left to pick on is DD's because we'll say 7/10 times the other 2 are immune.

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19 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

 

High alpha is one thing, it's the point blank drops where it goes a bit too far, long rearm or not. It's one thing to have that high alpha ability and have a scenario where I've landed 6/6 torps on I think it was a Neptune and it absolutely decimated it using auto drop. It's another to basically roll up to the doorstep and nuke them with no chance to dodge. And you have the fact trying to counter this mechanic which yes, should be countering bad team play, they've buffed AA to a point lone BB's can run out effectively immune to air attack, they don't need a cruisers help, cruisers are just plain disgusting, and even DD's are starting to get out of hand. I've lost 20 planes to a Benson before and last night due in part to the ingame storm making it even harder to spot I lost 50 planes in my Shokaku to a Kidd. Honestly, if it were really that big an issue of damage vs strike time, I'd rather they reduce our rearm times and give us another flight speed increase.

Though, I really only see an issue when the match ends in about 5 minutes, matches that go the distance, I'm fine with auto drops and current times dealing the damage. But even with manual torps, these fast roll matches can still just burn too fast to do very little.

 

But yes, BB's definetly hate us, and yeah, DD's are getting there because between a lot of BB's having high AA and being smarter sticking to cruisers/together, all that's left to pick on is DD's because we'll say 7/10 times the other 2 are immune.

I might be biased because I obsessively kill DDs, they win games, so I go out of my way to kill them all off. I know I can't do that with auto drop or a longer arm time, so that's probably why I'd prefer to keep manual.

I also tried low tier CVs to see how they are now, and they feel awful. Maybe it's because I'm used to the ability to control every move my squads make, or the ability to hit DDs, but I just hate low tier CVs now. It's not hard, it's just bland, low damage, and fairly impotent. 

As far as I can tell, CVs don't do enough damage to warrant a change in players plans or strategies. When I play CVs there is no real difference as to how the enemies are organised then when I don't. When the enemy team does organise itself, then they have an easy time countering me. However, evidently CVs aren't threatening enough to most players for them to actively seek countermeasures.

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6 minutes ago, megadeux said:

I might be biased because I obsessively kill DDs, they win games, so I go out of my way to kill them all off. I know I can't do that with auto drop or a longer arm time, so that's probably why I'd prefer to keep manual.

I also tried low tier CVs to see how they are now, and they feel awful. Maybe it's because I'm used to the ability to control every move my squads make, or the ability to hit DDs, but I just hate low tier CVs now. It's not hard, it's just bland, low damage, and fairly impotent. 

As far as I can tell, CVs don't do enough damage to warrant a change in players plans or strategies. When I play CVs there is no real difference as to how the enemies are organised then when I don't. When the enemy team does organise itself, then they have an easy time countering me. However, evidently CVs aren't threatening enough to most players for them to actively seek countermeasures.

I may have a bias as well, because of being an Alpha tester, I played this game without manual drops and strafing existing, so I learned how to kill DD's without them, and well, there was a time DB's were a bit more accurate. The only real complaints were "fighters unbalanced, kinda boring and totally RNG dependent" which, was fair, they still haven't fixed fighter balance and I still believe completely removing it the wrong idea, it needs to be reworked to some kind of DPS/accuracy debuff for fighters and bombers respectively. "AA too weak/strong" - which it was because tier 4-5 has always had weaker AA, 6-8 I think it was it was too strong, partially cause we had biplanes through tier 6-7, and tier 9-10 jets were just too fast with the HP they had. And Tier/CV's per team not balanced because well, they still didn't fix tier vs other tier issue but it's why CV's have the mirrored MM. But at that time, 2-300k damage was not nearly as uncommon as it is now for a CV. More so when they added manual TB's because they were blowing through AA. The only reason you see CV's struggling is that they've buffed mobility of other ships at least once, maybe twice, all the AA buffs, and strafing being an auto delete. AS USN having an issue added in it's DB's being too inaccurate to truly be effective and receiving no buffs to HP to make it through ever increasing AA which, unlike the TB's, they have to go into the worst of it. The down slide of CV's getting to a point where yeah, a lot of players don't fear us started when they added manual drop and the screams for nerfs really started. Though the other day it started to gain momentum against them is the day they made it a burning CV couldn't launch planes (used to be able to with no penalty, and no skill needed). 

 

Especially if your used to higher tiers, I find going back myself hard at times just because fewer groups to command. Removing strafe instead of reworking has caused other issues aside from yeah, fighters kinda boring again. TB's are TB's I hit with them same as upper tiers because I still mostly use auto drop unless the guys hiding against an island or the like and have to drop closer to hit him. Only thing past that is the fact that USN DB's, because that is supposed to be their thing, need the accuracy dialed in and dispersion toned down to actually be a more effective means of damage than they currently are, given IJN has cross drops to use. I only find fighters boring because DB's and TB's I'm constantly watching my target and adjusting the attack angle just right to hammer them as hard as possible.

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10 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

I may have a bias as well, because of being an Alpha tester, I played this game without manual drops and strafing existing, so I learned how to kill DD's without them, and well, there was a time DB's were a bit more accurate. The only real complaints were "fighters unbalanced, kinda boring and totally RNG dependent" which, was fair, they still haven't fixed fighter balance and I still believe completely removing it the wrong idea, it needs to be reworked to some kind of DPS/accuracy debuff for fighters and bombers respectively. "AA too weak/strong" - which it was because tier 4-5 has always had weaker AA, 6-8 I think it was it was too strong, partially cause we had biplanes through tier 6-7, and tier 9-10 jets were just too fast with the HP they had. And Tier/CV's per team not balanced because well, they still didn't fix tier vs other tier issue but it's why CV's have the mirrored MM. But at that time, 2-300k damage was not nearly as uncommon as it is now for a CV. More so when they added manual TB's because they were blowing through AA. The only reason you see CV's struggling is that they've buffed mobility of other ships at least once, maybe twice, all the AA buffs, and strafing being an auto delete. AS USN having an issue added in it's DB's being too inaccurate to truly be effective and receiving no buffs to HP to make it through ever increasing AA which, unlike the TB's, they have to go into the worst of it. The down slide of CV's getting to a point where yeah, a lot of players don't fear us started when they added manual drop and the screams for nerfs really started. Though the other day it started to gain momentum against them is the day they made it a burning CV couldn't launch planes (used to be able to with no penalty, and no skill needed). 

 

Especially if your used to higher tiers, I find going back myself hard at times just because fewer groups to command. Removing strafe instead of reworking has caused other issues aside from yeah, fighters kinda boring again. TB's are TB's I hit with them same as upper tiers because I still mostly use auto drop unless the guys hiding against an island or the like and have to drop closer to hit him. Only thing past that is the fact that USN DB's, because that is supposed to be their thing, need the accuracy dialed in and dispersion toned down to actually be a more effective means of damage than they currently are, given IJN has cross drops to use. I only find fighters boring because DB's and TB's I'm constantly watching my target and adjusting the attack angle just right to hammer them as hard as possible.

I always found that regardless of cross drops a DD could fiddle with angle and speed to dodge an auto drop. I started CVs before they removed manual and remember hosho as being fun, not great, but fun. Now because of the small size of BBs at that tier it's hard to get more then two hits with a great cross drop. I've only once seen a high tier CV use auto drop, I always use manual because of the tighter pattern and better control. Sometimes you need to be further away then auto drop allows, and sometimes closer.

I really think that USN CVs should get the GZ drop pattern for their DDs, it would improve them a lot. 

 

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1 hour ago, megadeux said:

I always found that regardless of cross drops a DD could fiddle with angle and speed to dodge an auto drop. I started CVs before they removed manual and remember hosho as being fun, not great, but fun. Now because of the small size of BBs at that tier it's hard to get more then two hits with a great cross drop. I've only once seen a high tier CV use auto drop, I always use manual because of the tighter pattern and better control. Sometimes you need to be further away then auto drop allows, and sometimes closer.

I really think that USN CVs should get the GZ drop pattern for their DDs, it would improve them a lot. 

 

 

True, though really, IJN CV's aren't necessarily supposed to be DD hunters. Just had my Zuiho out and I admit that the damage felt off but I've been at higher tiers so long. And with using manual drop for longer range shots, that I, and no BB player, should take issue with. It's really only those point blank ones that are problematic. But I also find hitting with auto drop more challenging than the point blank manuals most use which, is more fun to me because I have to lead the target for where he's going to be several seconds later, torpedo dispersion actually becomes a factor, and he may actually be able to dodge. If they could do away with close range manual drop on torps, I'd be fine if long range was still in, I occasionally use it that way.

 

But I have to disagree on giving USN CV's GZ's drop pattern. That's too much, especially with their heavier bombs, and should stay to GZ and if they actually put the ships in German line. Honestly they should just have the circle they have now just reduced closer to what Saipan has for HE DB's. That's enough for them to be effective without nuking DD's every time.

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25 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

 

True, though really, IJN CV's aren't necessarily supposed to be DD hunters. Just had my Zuiho out and I admit that the damage felt off but I've been at higher tiers so long. And with using manual drop for longer range shots, that I, and no BB player, should take issue with. It's really only those point blank ones that are problematic. But I also find hitting with auto drop more challenging than the point blank manuals most use which, is more fun to me because I have to lead the target for where he's going to be several seconds later, torpedo dispersion actually becomes a factor, and he may actually be able to dodge. If they could do away with close range manual drop on torps, I'd be fine if long range was still in, I occasionally use it that way.

 

But I have to disagree on giving USN CV's GZ's drop pattern. That's too much, especially with their heavier bombs, and should stay to GZ and if they actually put the ships in German line. Honestly they should just have the circle they have now just reduced closer to what Saipan has for HE DB's. That's enough for them to be effective without nuking DD's every time.

You definitely have an interesting play style, for sure. 

IJN CVs are mediocre at hunting DDs, but the payoff is massive when you do kill the DD. Often the first team to wipe out the other team's DDs wins, so I find it helps teams be more aggressive when the DDs are dead. Manual drop is also much more useful for targeting ships in smoke, which is always nice.

Biggest issue I have with lengthening the drop is that I no longer can easily defend myself from enemy DDs that like to hunt down CVs. And dropping BBs from up close is honestly, in my opinion as an IJN BB player, a non issue. Very rarely will I be dropped by a CV, because I stay with the fleet. Out of I believe 60 battles in Amagi, I have been dropped by a CV twice.  And, in fact, very rarely does a CV ever target me, because I stick with my fleet, I don't AA spec, I don't go for fighter plane, instead I just stay with my fleet, and viola! I'm fine.

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3 minutes ago, megadeux said:

You definitely have an interesting play style, for sure. 

IJN CVs are mediocre at hunting DDs, but the payoff is massive when you do kill the DD. Often the first team to wipe out the other team's DDs wins, so I find it helps teams be more aggressive when the DDs are dead. Manual drop is also much more useful for targeting ships in smoke, which is always nice.

Biggest issue I have with lengthening the drop is that I no longer can easily defend myself from enemy DDs that like to hunt down CVs. And dropping BBs from up close is honestly, in my opinion as an IJN BB player, a non issue. Very rarely will I be dropped by a CV, because I stay with the fleet. Out of I believe 60 battles in Amagi, I have been dropped by a CV twice.  And, in fact, very rarely does a CV ever target me, because I stick with my fleet, I don't AA spec, I don't go for fighter plane, instead I just stay with my fleet, and viola! I'm fine.

 

That is the one key that makes fixing the issue of manual drop an issue, we do need still the ability to target ships in smoke. Apparently making the smoke itself a selectable target is an issue. If I have an opening against a DD, I take it, worst case even if I miss is I can put him in a bad spot while spotted against my team.

And as far as DD's, it's rare I have an issue on that front more just in that my deck being aflame is more the issue. Part of though why I do my best as a CV to try and stay close enough to the team to get help if needed from sneaky DD's, though playing USN more than IJN can make that hard because some of the worst stealth ever. Plus, I can see them tweaking things like they did at lower tiers to try and compensate the changes somewhat. And like me, when playing not a CV, you use your brain. The problem is all the lone wolf Rambo wannabe's kept crying they were getting wrecked by it because forbid they stay with the team at all. Which is why one ship, depending on what it is, can be hard to impossible to attack and 2 is basically a no fly zone. Hence AA buff, after AA buff, after AA buff.

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1 minute ago, WanderingGhost said:

he problem is all the lone wolf Rambo wannabe's kept crying they were getting wrecked by it because forbid they stay with the team at all. Which is why one ship, depending on what it is, can be hard to impossible to attack and 2 is basically a no fly zone. Hence AA buff, after AA buff, after AA buff.

This sums everything up perfectly.

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