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Dr_Venture

Release date for Graf Zep?

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Do we have a release date or a general idea as to when this ship will be released...I want it...I needs it precious.

(The idea of erasing people with a cloud of Stuka's is rather appealing.)

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4 minutes ago, Dr_Venture said:

Do we have a release date or a general idea as to when this ship will be released...I want it...I needs it precious.

(The idea of erasing people with a cloud of Stuka's is rather appealing.)

They are still testing and fine tuning her, they don't want to screw up with her again. Besides even if they are done with the testing we will have to wait 3 months due to the exclusive period they promised.

 

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2 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

They are still testing and fine tuning her

Interesting that they're taking so long, but every other ship that goes through a testing period they give at best three weeks testing and tuning for ....

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My theory, aside from the desire not to repeat its tragic initial release, is that WG is using GZ as a way to balance CV's as a whole. Once they nail down GZ, they will take the lessons learned and make large, global, CV changes.

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Just now, Lert said:

Interesting that they're taking so long, but every other ship that goes through a testing period they give at best three weeks testing and tuning for ....

Well the original release was a total cluster-[edited] and Wargaming knows it so they are avoiding the possibility like the plague and are being extra meticulous and through with the testing.

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3 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

Well the original release was a total cluster-[edited] and Wargaming knows it

Yeah. I know. I was there.

3 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

being extra meticulous and through with the testing.

Yeah or they're just stalling for some reason. No reason actual balancing would take this long.

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

Yeah or they're just stalling for some reason. No reason actual balancing would take this long.

I'm just basing it on what is known. Maybe they are already done and we are just in the exclusive period.

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2 minutes ago, Fog_Repair_Ship_Akashi said:

I'm just basing it on what is known. Maybe they are already done and we are just in the exclusive period.

They would've / should've announced something then.

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Just now, Lert said:

They would've / should've announced something then.

You know Wargaming can be quite inconsistent when it comes to announcements. They still haven't fixed the voice problem they made last patch or even consider it a problem.

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24 minutes ago, Lert said:

Yeah or they're just stalling for some reason. No reason actual balancing would take this long.

I wonder if the design team just isn’t happy with the ship in general, regardless of balance. They really seem to have wanted Graf Zeppelin to be something of a quirky vessel, as evidenced by the fact that they’ve gone through multiple gimmicks already.

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5 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

I wonder if the design team just isn’t happy with the ship in general, regardless of balance. They really seem to have wanted Graf Zeppelin to be something of a quirky vessel, as evidenced by the fact that they’ve gone through multiple gimmicks already.

The thing is, either we accept that properly balancing a ship like this takes like 4 or 5 patch cycles and the normal testing and balancing cycle of 1 patch cycle is way too short, or we accept that the normal test and balancing cycle of 1 patch cycle is ok and this is taking way too long. It's one or the other.

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18 minutes ago, Lert said:

The thing is, either we accept that properly balancing a ship like this takes like 4 or 5 patch cycles and the normal testing and balancing cycle of 1 patch cycle is way too short, or we accept that the normal test and balancing cycle of 1 patch cycle is ok and this is taking way too long. It's one of the other.

I don't think the GZ experience is really applicable to other ships and their development cycles. I think they botched this one from the beginning. I really don't think GZ is a T8 carrier and I think they tried to make up the difference with quirkiness. My guess is the crazy test loadouts have borne that out.  I think it is better suited to T7 with a standard plane loadout and regular DBs. The problem is that people already have T8 GZs and they can't downtier it easily because people paid for a T8. I think they are stuck trying to get GZ to a solid T8 without adding too much craziness while keeping somewhat to historical accuracy and not looking like the existing T8s and they are having a lot of trouble doing that. 

Edited by Tzarevitch

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22 minutes ago, Lert said:

Interesting that they're taking so long, but every other ship that goes through a testing period they give at best three weeks testing and tuning for ....

 

Given my observations of the ship in game and it's test variations, it's because they still haven't figured out a way to balance, partially because it seems as if they don't know their own mechanics. The normal versions issues are well documented at this point. One has a DB group and fighter group with between 10-12 planes (it was hard to count the number of squares) which, I didn't ID the bomb type on the DB's was more focused on the fighters and I think it had TB's as well. Which, they gave it too many fighters now making it's fighters too powerful, curb stomped BOTH of my AS Lex groups that I had built to have absolute air superiority. It's been a while since I saw the other test version, though, I think that was really just GZ with fighters lowered and AP changes, maybe an extra TB group. And it doesn't help that technically, these planes should be in the same range as the A6M and D3A in performance, especially given the 109"T" has the same armaments as the A6M basically and a similar time frame. Same with the Stuka, hell, the Stuka I think may be a slightly older design than the D3A. It should have been a tier 7 at best with T6 planes as a premium, MAYBE tier 7 planes, huge maybe that I'd vote against. Or they should have saved it for a German CV tech tree because they basically have the started ships and designs to pretty much furnish one, and furnish it with Fw-190's in both the fighter and attack (namely DB, sans TB) roles.

 

Math I did a couple weeks back while waiting to go into work now that I found my notebook- 

Tier 8 GZ-

109T - lower DPS to 52-55, increase squadron size to 6 planes (7 with AS) - this would be a net gain in DPS from the additional aircraft and decrease DPS drop off from aircraft losses, and put it in competition vs IJN planes at least (USN planes are just too damned powerful to balance the DPS against without really screwing IJN). Keep Ammo and HP the same. Tier 7 aircraft.

Ju-87c - decrease bomb damage to 5500 max, increase planes in a squadron to 8 (9 with AS), increase speed 7-10 knots (142-145 knots top speed). The speed should help them get in and out of AA a little faster to take less losses, and while individual hits will do less, the tight circle they have with 8-9 planes they will be hitting more times more often and should raise the average damage done by the bombers. Tier 7 aircraft.

Aircraft count - increase reserves to 108 aircraft. These are still going to take losses even more than Enterprise and GZ had the hanger space, maybe a little less if it's decided and proven to be too excessive.

 

Tier 7 GZ -

109T - DPS reduced to 44, increase plane count to 6(7), reduce speed  to 170 knots, possible ammo adjustments for tier, believe my notes here say HP adjusted to 1260. Tier 6 aircraft. Again, competitive with IJN but until Wargaming balances fighters properly, no way to fairly balance it if it gets the ability to take on USN.

Ju-87c - bomb damage reduced to 5000-5500, aircraft per group increased to 7(8) or 8(9), speed and HP unchanged (already in line for the tier), tier 6 aircraft. These numbers I'm a little less certain on just because they see Tier 5 and don't want them to be TOO strong that they are wrecking the tier 5 ships with DB's, namely the DD's much as it's kinda supposed to be a DD hunter. currently leaning 5k damage, 7(8) aircraft.

Aircraft count - 96, 30 fighters, 66 DB or 36 fighters, 60DB.

 

Ideal, no, it makes it competitive with current IJN ability, in terms of fighters, and gives it good chance at starting fires on ships that aren't DD's, which are it's primary target given lower AA vs weaker planes and DD's are damaged more by HE. But it's about the best really you can do with AA being way too insane (lost 50 planes to a Kidd last night thanks to a storm) and fighters being horribly unbalanced in USN's favour. Though the changes to USN it now would have the same fighter edge as Shokaku and Hiryu against Ranger and Lex. The biggest issue with GZ aside from Wargaming seemingly not knowing the aircraft at all is the fact that CV's need a rework and they haven't done it yet. If fighters, AA and the rest were balanced it'd be a cakewalk by comparison, but they aren't.

 

as to OP's question - after they balance it, if they balance it, owners have a 3 month exclusive before it gets sold so given I still saw test versions recetly the earliest you'd see it is maybe around March, most likely later so between March and December next year maybe.

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Nevah!
Jk... lol..

Its still in test I believe, although we haven't got any notification (via email) about the next test or when will be the last

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There is no confirmed release date at this time, but we'll absolutely let you know!

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39 minutes ago, Lert said:

The thing is, either we accept that properly balancing a ship like this takes like 4 or 5 patch cycles and the normal testing and balancing cycle of 1 patch cycle is way too short, or we accept that the normal test and balancing cycle of 1 patch cycle is ok and this is taking way too long. It's one or the other.

I think that considering the state of Graf Zeppelins initial release, the state of other premium carriers and carriers in general. I would be surprised to see her come out balanced at all, let alone looking at the time in comparison to other ships for balancing.

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20 minutes ago, Radar_X said:

There is no confirmed release date at this time, but we'll absolutely let you know!

WG says "SOON"  We all know what that means.

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1 hour ago, Lert said:

Interesting that they're taking so long, but every other ship that goes through a testing period they give at best three weeks testing and tuning for ....

The RN cruisers were 90 days from sneak peek to inclusion, RN BB's were something like 120 days (Jun-Sept), PA DD were pretty similar. Even the relatively smooth sailing KM BB were 45 days. The ST periods would be slightly shorter than that but that's still more than 3 weeks surely?

 

My impression of development in the last half of this year, with the slow RN BB, slow PA DD, slow Kidd, aborted and delayed Huang He, hilarious cluster-fword of Graf Zeppelin (shown off on June 26, pulled on August 28 and as of today unknown release - basically 6 months in purgatory) is one of semi crisis.

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1 minute ago, mofton said:

The RN cruisers were 90 days from sneak peek to inclusion, RN BB's were something like 120 days (Jun-Sept), PA DD were pretty similar. Even the relatively smooth sailing KM BB were 45 days. The ST periods would be slightly shorter than that but that's still more than 3 weeks surely?

RNBBs were one public server test cycle. RNVL were several, true. Most of the time ships go through a single public server patch test cycle, IE, three weeks.

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1 hour ago, SkaerKrow said:

I wonder if the design team just isn’t happy with the ship in general, regardless of balance. They really seem to have wanted Graf Zeppelin to be something of a quirky vessel, as evidenced by the fact that they’ve gone through multiple gimmicks already.

I wonder to what degree they might be using the GZ and its prolonged testing as a test bed for (pardon the overuse of the word) testing of different CV related ideas, for use not only on the GZ, but on future CV's.

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

I wonder to what degree they might be using the GZ and its prolonged testing as a test bed for (pardon the overuse of the word) testing of different CV related ideas, for use not only on the GZ, but on future CV's.

 

Probably pretty high as a lot of the premiums/rewards/etc seem to have things that later on get translated to other ships/lines/etc. Long before RN cruisers Iwaki Alpha was he only cruiser with smoke, E, obviously, the test bed of AP, Kaga and E are likely test beds to alternate torpedo patterns to help differentiate lines, beyond some of the pre-release drop patterns, Tirpitz with torps on a BB, etc. They can make for an effective test bed to see how one does and how to weak it in the future for other ships.

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11 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

Do we have a release date or a general idea as to when this ship will be released...I want it...I needs it precious.

(The idea of erasing people with a cloud of Stuka's is rather appealing.)

3 months after a finalized version is announced, at the earliest. So April 2018, if you are lucky.

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All I have to say is the community deserves the wait. If you guys would of been patient and let them balance it over time instead of demanding a refund this wouldn’t have happened. The ship was released weak so the could buff it and not have to nerf it. But no it was 100% broken despite it not being 100% broken. Now you have to be patient plus three months.

Edited by GreyFox78659
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