Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
CLUCH_CARGO

Stats

Is it in the best interest of the game  

78 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you believe in Stats?

  2. 2. If the game decided to do away with public stat compilers would you agree?

  3. 3. If the game made everyone's Stats hidden by default would you be satisfied?

  4. 4. If you lost the ability to search other player stats would you quit the game?

    • yes
    • no
    • this is a dumb question searching stats of others is my game
  5. 5. Do you see Stat Shamers?

    • yes often
    • yes but seldom
    • no not often
    • no never
    • I refuse to look in the mirror so I can't answer
  6. 6. Do you like Bacon?


30 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

788
[MIA-A]
Members
2,126 posts
6,810 battles

The main people who complain about stats are people with mediocre stats.

 

I almost never see people who are good at this game complain about stats not being hidden.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
198
[WOLF1]
Members
619 posts
12,934 battles
5 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

really don't see the point of this poll.

I don't either the argument has been beaten to death at this point.  Stats provide a player the ability to track their performance and to see if they are improving or not.  Stats are more important to some than others.  Way I see it to each their own.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
3,585 posts
4,261 battles

The only stat that matters, is the win % stat.

 

Because winning = bringing home the bacon.

Edited by aether_tech
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
977
Members
4,566 posts
6,505 battles
28 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

The main people who complain about stats are people with mediocre stats.

 

I almost never see people who are good at this game complain about stats not being hidden.

No.  I disagree. Big stat hitters are the first to complain bout new low stat "scrubs" who are messing up their "video life".....which means anyone with stats lower than them. I have seen dissing go on for pages in chat. HOWEVER.....much much much worse In WoT. than here.  Much worst.  Been here over 4 years in WG. What is mediocre in your opinion as I see you you feel you to be an expert? Define that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
620
[TF57]
Members
1,264 posts
3,934 battles
Quote

The main people who complain about stats are people with mediocre stats.

 

Quote

I really don't see the point of this poll.

The most common reasons is people with poor stats make up threads saying how stats - the historical record of their games - is "irrelevant." They also make threads and go on an on about how they don't care (which suggests they do).

Instead of learning to get better, they try to get others to agree stats are meaningless in order to feel better about themselves.

Disclaimer: I don't have good stats, but the lack of logic of the stats-deniers annoys me.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,893
[O7]
Supertester, Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
10,732 posts
7,721 battles

Why is it that the people that always bring up stats seem to really hate them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
896
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
2,253 posts
8,634 battles

Seems like the tl;dr is that people care, but not that much.

 

Also, bacon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
977
Members
4,566 posts
6,505 battles
1 minute ago, evilleMonkeigh said:

 

The most common reasons is people with poor stats make up threads saying how stats - the historical record of their games - is "irrelevant." They also make threads and go on an on about how they don't care (which suggests they do).

Instead of learning to get better, they try to get others to agree stats are meaningless in order to feel better about themselves.

Disclaimer: I don't have good stats, but the lack of logic of the stats-deniers annoys me.

The same goes for those with unicorny stats., I assure you.  They do the same thing. Their big stats are their intrinsic personal value...for some....they take it very seriously. No one cares but they actually think others players do. They actually get rabid dog about it. Then....game dies, or they quit and it all means nothing.  ZERO

 

It is not a lack of logic by the way. You are using concept of logic the wrong way....with all due respect.  It's more like simple human nature. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
620
[TF57]
Members
1,264 posts
3,934 battles
Quote

Why is it that the people that always bring up stats seem to really hate them. 


I think players with bad stats bring up stats far more often than players with good stats. I think it bothers them, but rather than fix the problem (i.e. their below-average play), they'd rather hide it.

 

I've never seen stat-shaming in-game; and on the forums, usually not shaming so much as to rebutt an argument or piece of bad advice, or to point out the person's lack of experience/success i.e.

"DD are OP, radar is fine"  You've never played a DD above T4.

"Bismark is the best sniper, I do 100k/game in it"  You have a 40% WR and 20k average damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
620
[TF57]
Members
1,264 posts
3,934 battles
Quote

The same goes for those with unicorny stats., I assure you.  They do the same thing. Their big stats are their intrinsic personal value...for some....they take it very seriously. No one cares but they actually think others players do. They actually get rabid dog about it. Then....game dies, or they quit and it all means nothing.  ZERO

I think it's fair to say stats about World of Warships are reasonably relevant on a forum specifically about World of Warships.  If they claimed it makes them a better person IRL, or brought it up in conversation in real life, I'd be concerned.

"I'm better than you as a person because I have a 60% WR and you have a 40% WR" is quite likely wrong.

"I'm better than you at WoWs because I have a 60% WR and you have a 40% WR" is almost certainly correct.

 

Quote

It is not a lack of logic by the way. You are using concept of logic the wrong way....with all due respect.  It's more like simple human nature. 

I agree it's human nature. Perhaps I worded it poorly.

I feel like stat deniers are saying "math suggests I am a bad player: therefore math is wrong."

or "MM, weekend teams and RNG make me a bad player: because of course no one else has to contend with MM or RNG"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
174
[KENT]
Members
481 posts
3,205 battles

I believe in stats, however I don't use it to judge any other players except myself.  Stats to me are a way of showing my performance and seeing how I can improve.  Statshaming is dumb except in extreme cases of idiots who get on here claiming that the game is rigged (see: exposingwot.com).  

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,308 posts
21,118 battles
59 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

I really don't see the point of this poll.

We need to take a poll to verify this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,488
[O_O]
Members
4,427 posts
9,588 battles

Stats available in game is poison.

Stats available in forum is gold.

 

/Thread.

giphy.gif

Edited by desmo_2
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
892
[SSG]
Alpha Tester
3,459 posts
8,119 battles

Some point there was another thread that generally touched on this because it was about XVM, and it wasn't just players with "bad stats" saying they wanted it left out. Stats, can be a good thing, it can show you where maybe you need to improve, when used RIGHT give you an idea of who the player is and their play style, etc. The problem is most people seem to misuse them and focus only on winrate. I care about my stats only so far as yes, I would like to improve them. But, little more than a year now, I've been on a slide from over 51% WR at around 3000 battles to 49% and even though I have periods of going back up, end up in another slide. :etc_swear: happens and I know I'm better in some areas than my stats show. 

 

But all the time anyone brings in stats in game and all it gets ugly fast with stat shaming bull. Even on the forums too many go "you have a winrate around 50% so you know nothing and your opinions are invalid", or at least there were I think we purged most of them, not grasping the concept that a good player can take a crap ship and do well, same with a great player, but your average player is going to be the true show of if it' balanced or not. And that's just it, no one actually looks at the stats, they see winrate, maybe WTR and damage and start their nonsense and not look past that. They don't dissect patterns and try to piece together the picture of the player. 

 

First glance at my stats most would likely go useless scrub, likely always carried. Which while today is an odd day where I'm struggling a bit, though teams are still winning, that's generally not the case. Thing is foolish as it may seem, I'm willing to lead the charge in, which is why my survival rate tends to be low in all but CV's, I get focused a lot. If you looked at an average of potential damage shot at me, it'd actually be pretty high, especially as I've gotten better at angling. I'm on average more accurate than other players in both MBH and TH rates, some (Tirpitz) incredibly so. Just that damage isn't always there partially cause yes, I have to work on aiming where I can have the shell not shatter/richochet, and that getting focused a lot, I unfortunately end up out early. XP in ships I'm usually average +/- 200. Then take ships like CV's, depending on ship, my WR can be high, average, or low, even if the rest of the stats are around or close to average. Part of Lex's average damage has always been it's strike loadout, now the new ones. But most of my stats are with the old AS using HE DB's, to which you then have my lower plane kill counts in most ships, or at least close to average, which is because I try to avoid using strafe because I feel it's a broken and unfair mechanic. Same goes for Shokaku and the like and manual TB drops. I'm keeping pace relatively in stats and I'm essentially holding back by not abusing these mechanics that most do.

 

There are more to players than just winrate, and if you look at all the stats and combine them, you can get a better picture. Are they aggressive, maybe overly so, are they off with aiming, etc. And too many use them wrongly to judge, insult, and try to disparage arguments they don't like even if actual facts are used.

 

17 minutes ago, evilleMonkeigh said:

I agree it's human nature. Perhaps I worded it poorly.

I feel like stat deniers are saying "math suggests I am a bad player: therefore math is wrong."

or "MM, weekend teams and RNG make me a bad player: because of course no one else has to contend with MM or RNG"

 

Yes, everyone has to deal with RNG and MM, but it's not always fair and equal because all of it is random. Today, I'm sucking hard and way below my abilities, in-between typing this and the game, I finally got my first loss in 6 matches recorded to today on Warships Today. That loss, and 1 other match, I was closer to the top of the team, the rest, I managed to not be lowest. A couple days ago, I screen capped it, I had a 63% WR for the day, and basically every match I was the top of the team or one of the top 3-4. Yesterday was 50%, mostly at the top of the team. Can't even start to tell you how many were -2 of the 24 matches that counted to yesterday. Not to mention maybe your stats were bad early on, maybe you hit a slump, sometimes it's a deep as :etc_swear: hole to dig out of. The guys at a flat 40% and lower, look, I believe there is a lot more luck involved to a degree than most, but no, that is not all THAT bad luck for overall stats, that is definitely partially you unless you have stat's otherwise on par with a 60% player. Players in and around the upper 40's and lower 50's, some of it is luck of the draw. Yes, I do play a part in it obviously, I am one of 12 ships on my team in the match, and I have to count on 11 other guys to play just as well, preferably better. But I can tell you one constant between the 63% day and today, while not quite as much today, most/all the teams have been more aggressive like myself and have worked well with my playstyle, I don't have 5 ships with me and after firing 3 salvo's those 5 have abandoned me and run off to leave me at the mercy of 3+ red ships. I have ships pushing in, taking advantage of me basically drawing 1mil+ damage away from them, today it happens to be in cruisers, and hitting ships exposing themselves firing at me or that I've outright spotted. Usually, I get passive teams which really never works for me and all the "play defense" usually ends in the team flanked and destroyed, funny enough, with me usually ending up one of the last survivors, usually because I see it coming and find a spot to break through it before the slaughter happens.

 

Somebody with truly bad stats saying "it's all RNG and MM", they yes are likely a denier, but some of us struggling around the 50% mark, it's not to be ruled out that some of us may just have  a bit of bad luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8
[NOOBS]
Members
14 posts
878 battles

Problem with Stats is that they are based on Win Rate...while a good stat its not the end all of who a good player is.

GIF-Dancing-dance-feeling-it-moves-party-hard-success-successful-Tom-Cruise-Tropic-Thunder-GIF.gif

Edited by _A_A_A_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,023 posts
13,060 battles

A question for those who say they use stats to improve their game...

How does having access to other players stats improve "your" game??? All I see that access being used for is stat shaming and/or players quitting in disgust at the beginning of a game because they've been saddled with a team of "losers".

Keep the stat tracking for players to use to improve but why in hell show everyone else.

There's enough male testosterone in game and on the forum without facilitating another "mine is bigger than yours' " contest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
620
[TF57]
Members
1,264 posts
3,934 battles

Wandering Ghost, stats are not reliable until they are in a large enough sample size. How big that sample size is, varies, but the more games = the more reliable the stats. As a rule of thumb, I'd say 1000+ games overall, or 50 or so games in a ship, before stats are reliable. I've played a T1 ship once, got a 100% win rate, 5:0kdr, 100% surivival. Does that mean I am a brilliant player? No because it is one game. A tiny, and therefore very unreliable sample size.

Quote

I screen capped it, I had a 63% WR for the day, and basically every match I was the top of the team or one of the top 3-4. Yesterday was 50%, mostly at the top of the team.

Absolutely true. It is quite possible to get a series of good or bad teams in a row. Your sample size is small. It's quite possible to get wildly varying results over ~10 games. I prefer to look at my "last week" or "last month" stat (hopefully with 100+ games) and compare that to my overall, as the sample size is more reliable. 

If you take tiny groups of games, then yes, you will get wildly differing results.  I.e.  A 40% WR over 10 games means almost nothing. This can happen to anyone. 40% over 100 games is a worrying trend. What is going wrong? 40% over 10, 000 games = you are a terrible player.

If you don't understand how stats work, they will be meaningless. 

A few other points:

Any single stat is not always perfect. That's why you look at ALL of them. However win rate is often pointed to as it encompasses the key aim of the game = winning games.

Stats can be manipulated (by planning in a  division, playing an OP ship, farming damage on BB) but these actions are usually benefiting their team.  For example, it's difficult to consistently "farm" damage unless you are a genuinely good player. I doubt there are many players with x2 the server average damage in a ship, who have a below 50% win rate (presuming a large sample size).

Stats can be compared against an average. You can compare your average damage in a ship with the server averages. I.e. someone gets 40k a game in their Bismark and think's they give expert advice as it's their best ship: but it's still 20k below the server average - they're still bad in it.


Finally, stats should be used to help you improve. For example, I noticed a direct correlation between by survival % and my win rate in destroyers.  I played only destroyers over several hundred games (somewhat reliable sample size; removing variables). I realised I died to often and could not help cap in the "endgame."  I tried to be more cautious on cap. My survival went from 36% to 42%: my win rate went from 53% to 56%.

Yesterday I had 7 games at 42%. Have I suddenly "got bad?" No, it's merely a small sample size.  I played 3 games with "purple" WTR today. Am I suddenly a unicum? No, it's a small sample size.

I haven't looked at your stats, but I could if you like, and make suggestions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
620
[TF57]
Members
1,264 posts
3,934 battles
Quote

How does having access to other players stats improve "your" game??? All I see that access being used for is stat shaming and/or players quitting in disgust at the beginning of a game because they've been saddled with a team of "losers".

I like the "average stats" of others in order to rate my progress. I like the specific stats of others to check if their opinions are sound. 

I'm surprised you've had people quit games because of "losers" - I think in 2000+ games I've seen stats mentioned only a few times - both times with (a) a bad CV player who ruins the game for his team  (b) in response to some dead guy in chat ranting on and on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
175
[NEMO]
[NEMO]
Members
756 posts
6,982 battles
37 minutes ago, CrazyHorse_Denver said:

A question for those who say they use stats to improve their game...

How does having access to other players stats improve "your" game??? All I see that access being used for is stat shaming and/or players quitting in disgust at the beginning of a game because they've been saddled with a team of "losers".

Keep the stat tracking for players to use to improve but why in hell show everyone else.

There's enough male testosterone in game and on the forum without facilitating another "mine is bigger than yours' " contest.

If I start a battle and see our CV has 300 battles and a 30% win rate, I can confidently assume they will be ZERO help to the team and not expect them to do any spotting while I'm trying to cap in a DD, etc...

I then adjust my gameplay to take this into account.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
696
[UDEAD]
Beta Testers
1,047 posts
10,486 battles

I look at the stats of both CV players at the start of any match with CV's - it's very important to choosing how I will attempt to play the match to win.  If both are bad - it's a wash, I will try and play my ships to leverage it's class capabilities.  If ours is better, I will try to engage along the attack axis his planes start going, because I can finish damaged ships from his first strike, while he can finish ships I have damaged with his second strike.  If the other CV is a better player, I will make sure not to extend to far away from our main battle group so as not to be singled out and die alone from well timed manual drops.  Instead I will attempt to push heavily with our main group in the hopes of taking enough enemy ships off the board that we can win despite a lack of air cover.

It isn't stat shaming, it's not stat bragging, it's common sense.  People who complain about stats have one thing in common, bad or mediocre stats, and have shown NO long term improvement.  I get it, you are frustrated by your lack of development.  You try and hide behind the façade of "It's just a game, get a life!" and the infamous "I play for fun!" - News flash, we ALL PLAY FOR FUN, but in my case, winning = fun.  I have a mental idea of where my next plateau is, and where I will be at when that plateau occurs.  The question at that time will be: What are you willing to do to move past that plateau?  The bulk of the players who complain about stats have no idea where they are going, and therefore have no clue how to get "there".  The only fly in the ointment are the people who keep getting better and better while they stay in the same rut.

The world is full of winners and losers, and they move around all the time, and just because someone is good at something that you aren't, they have no need to be ashamed of it or hide it. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,065
[NDA]
Supertester
4,847 posts
13,843 battles

Discussions about stats are like, 

jP8LP8j.gif

 

I'm usually to busy working on winning a game to worry about someone else's stats.

But start shaming me for what I'm doing and I get very tempted to break your stat page over your bridge. 

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
2,877 posts
5,187 battles

1. Yes.  Stats have many good purposes outside of "win rate" which is usually attributed to the "stats" discussion.  Aka...  "So and so has great 'Stats'"..which is not to say someone without a great win rate couldn't have a great stat.  I am pretty proud of the number of close quarter achievements I have accumulated.

2. No.  Not much need for this if you agree with the above point of view.

3. No, but could be answer number 3.  Default one way or the other is really not necessary.  Choosing to hide them is fine.

4. No.  I rarely look at other player stats and maybe only once or twice have I done it as a defense mechanism.  Certainly wouldn't quit over it. 

5. Yes, seldom now, but used to be very prevalent not too long ago.

6. Yes.  I believe this is  "trap" question that is being used for profiling purposes..anyone that answers anything other than "yes" should be regarded with the highest level of suspicion. 

 

 

Edited by CaptGodzillaPig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×