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OldSaltyOne

Does Radar Need to be removed?? Also please Remove Tiers of the Desert with Epicenter

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 I only ask this question because I started playing destroyers again.  Radar is a pain in all of our sides.  Whether or not what ship we play dds cas or bbs.  I think personaly that radar ruins the game.  Smoke screens aren't a problem, hydro is not a problem.  But because of the addition of radar ships.  It is a problem.  There is no where for those of us with out it to hide. Especially the destroyer players.  It takes the fun out of the game.

 When someone that has a radar bearing ship, oh wait I'll just radar him and yea everybody tends to focus fire.  What in the world is the fun in that point.  Not only that in some cases it drives people up the wall and it just causes problems.  Players who use the Radar on occasion get called out.  by the player getting pinged and so forth.  Do developers need to just remove the radar entirely from the game and make it a fair playing field for everybody? 

 That really is the question.  Yes there are ways of getting away from it.  Well the only two ways that I know of are knowing the ships radar range and the ship type that is pinging you.  For me it is just more of an annoyance than a gripe.  I definitely would not mind if WoWs went back to the days of old where there was ABSOLUTELY NO Radar and No Hydro. But maybe some players think different I don't know.  But I can say for myself, that I would preferably like to see Radar go the way of the DODO.

 Part 2

 The second part of this post derives around the "Tears of the Desert" Map and Epicenter mode.  That just bluntly needs to be removed all together.  On that map the game just becomes a hide and seek and snipers alley and camping posts.  A lot of players that I see in game do not even care for the map.  Nor do they care for the mode.  If the map would be sized down a fair some I could see it being a really good map.  Size it down and leave epicenter off that map.  I can see that mode being used for smaller maps.

 But to have it on an extremely large map like "Tears of the Desert".  Come on what do you expect us to do on that.  I could sit here and find things wrong with the game to complain on like some people would.  But these two items yea.  Epicenter mode on "Tears of the Desert" can just go away.  Frankly I would much rather play "Ocean" in a destroyer than have that map.  Well thanks for listening hopefully I was able to gather a couple points together for you to read. 

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Radar is fine.  The only thing that needs to be changed is for matchmaking to balance numbers of radar.  It's not fun when your team has 0 radars and the enemy team has 6!

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11 minutes ago, pmgaudio said:

hA0mPTZ.jpg

You and your crazy picture posts lol they make me laugh.

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Two years ago we didn't have radar. Amazingly, BBs still avoided my torps. Amazingly, caps were still heavily contested in running knife fights with DDs (very enjoyable). Amazingly, games were still won and lost as usual. Radar was totally unnecessary and adds no play value to the game. It is just an I-WIN button that has made playing high tier DDs more of a trial and less cat-and-mouse fun. Even worse, it work through islands, which WG refuses to fix though players constantly complain. 

 

In addition to its effect on gameplay, WG has taken no action to incorporate this I-WIN button into the MM. Meaning that in addition to its pernicious effects on gameplay, skewed MMs in which one side has significant radar advantages are common.

Coupled with cyclones, it also makes invisifiring possible. Most high tier cruisers have radar that exceeds the 8 km spotting limit of cyclones (which needs to vary randomly with each cyclone, the constant 8 km is boring). Yet WG got rid of invisifiring....

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The answer to radar is make it a double edge sword just like smoke is.  You use it, you light up along with the enemy.

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40 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Two years ago we didn't have radar. Amazingly, BBs still avoided my torps. Amazingly, caps were still heavily contested in running knife fights with DDs (very enjoyable). Amazingly, games were still won and lost as usual. Radar was totally unnecessary and adds no play value to the game. It is just an I-WIN button that has made playing high tier DDs more of a trial and less cat-and-mouse fun. Even worse, it work through islands, which WG refuses to fix though players constantly complain. 

 

In addition to its effect on gameplay, WG has taken no action to incorporate this I-WIN button into the MM. Meaning that in addition to its pernicious effects on gameplay, skewed MMs in which one side has significant radar advantages are common.

Coupled with cyclones, it also makes invisifiring possible. Most high tier cruisers have radar that exceeds the 8 km spotting limit of cyclones (which needs to vary randomly with each cyclone, the constant 8 km is boring). Yet WG got rid of invisifiring....

2 years ago 10 dd matches weren't nearly as common as they are now.

 

2 years ago there were ijn and usn dd's only.

 

2 years ago cv's were common enough that they kept the dd population in check.

 

sorry... but the game has changed quite a bit in the past 2 years.  radar is necessary.

 

you talk about radar being an "i-win" button... what do you think your klingon cloaking device is against anyone not equipped with radar?  what do you think it has always been against anyone not equipped with radar?  if stealth and spotting in this game wasn't inherently broken... then you wouldn't need a broken mechanic to counter it.  

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8 minutes ago, Shadeylark said:

 

And they fire from cloak ;) 

 

Star_Trek_6_42c.gif

 

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IMHO, ALL Cruisers from tier 8 on up need to have radar. As for tears of the desert; The map is fine but Epicenter on all maps needs to go. I often wonder what wino came up with epicenter.

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2 minutes ago, ReddNekk said:

IMHO, ALL Cruisers from tier 8 on up need to have radar. As for tears of the desert; The map is fine but Epicenter on all maps needs to go. I often wonder what wino came up with epicenter.

Eh I feel epicentre on trident is fine.  There's enough cover in and around the cap to make it fun.

I kind wanna see epicentre on haven though :D

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1 hour ago, AFKsinon said:

Radar is fine.  The only thing that needs to be changed is for matchmaking to balance numbers of radar.  It's not fun when your team has 0 radars and the enemy team has 6!


This exactly! I think MM needs to balance this capability if at all possible. 

 

1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

Two years ago we didn't have radar. Amazingly, BBs still avoided my torps. Amazingly, caps were still heavily contested in running knife fights with DDs (very enjoyable). Amazingly, games were still won and lost as usual. Radar was totally unnecessary and adds no play value to the game. It is just an I-WIN button that has made playing high tier DDs more of a trial and less cat-and-mouse fun. Even worse, it work through islands, which WG refuses to fix though players constantly complain. 

 

In addition to its effect on gameplay, WG has taken no action to incorporate this I-WIN button into the MM. Meaning that in addition to its pernicious effects on gameplay, skewed MMs in which one side has significant radar advantages are common.

Coupled with cyclones, it also makes invisifiring possible. Most high tier cruisers have radar that exceeds the 8 km spotting limit of cyclones (which needs to vary randomly with each cyclone, the constant 8 km is boring). Yet WG got rid of invisifiring....

 

I can live with radar if it were more real life-like. I understand this isn't a simulation but some mechanics should behave more like 'real life' and this is one of them. Hydro can 'echo locate' behind an island to some extent but I think it should lose some resolution and become an indicator more like RPF.

 

Weather should not affect radar and is an acceptable effect in my opinion.

 

36 minutes ago, gcangel82 said:

The answer to radar is make it a double edge sword just like smoke is.  You use it, you light up along with the enemy.

 

I  agree that, at the very least, ships that are 'lit' by radar  should have an indicator - again, at least, like RPF - pointing to the radar ship. And if multiple ships are 'lit' those should generate a 'probable' location (ship outline) of the radar ship position until either the radar terminates or the radar ship is visually spotted.

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1 minute ago, Khafni said:

 

I  agree that, at the very least, ships that are 'lit' by radar  should have an indicator - again, at least, like RPF - pointing to the radar ship. And if multiple ships are 'lit' those should generate a 'probable' location (ship outline) of the radar ship position until either the radar terminates or the radar ship is visually spotted.

 

Most radar ships are spotted well in advance of any ships being hit by their radar, discounting the PA dds, cyclones, or if the somehow managed to sneak to an island without getting dd spotted. Their spotting range is further than their detection range on most cases. 

 

Most dds that are caught 'by surprise' either were camping in smoke, unaware said ship had radar, or were charged down without a means of escape.

 

Situation 1: The typical radar catch, dd is trying to cap without support, gets radared, and nuked because he couldn't see said ship coming and didn't prepare for it.

Situation 2: Is more of a knowledge thing of while lines/tiers have radar.

Situation 3: Is typically the dd sitting broadside in smoke, camping on the cap. If it wasn't for radar being so 'scarey' the dd in this situation would be complaining about not being able to spot torpedoes when in smoke.

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Play mostly DD now and yes Radar is a pain but you can over come it scout before you go into cap find out where the radar ships are before you go in send torps toward them to make them move away. Was in game today only DD on my team tier 10 match CV's and 4 radar ships on other team was able to cap and live to the end of game was it tough sure but can be done.

 

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34 minutes ago, RogueFlameHaze said:

 

Most radar ships are spotted well in advance of any ships being hit by their radar, discounting the PA dds, cyclones, or if the somehow managed to sneak to an island without getting dd spotted. Their spotting range is further than their detection range on most cases. 

 

Most dds that are caught 'by surprise' either were camping in smoke, unaware said ship had radar, or were charged down without a means of escape.

 

Situation 1: The typical radar catch, dd is trying to cap without support, gets radared, and nuked because he couldn't see said ship coming and didn't prepare for it.

Situation 2: Is more of a knowledge thing of while lines/tiers have radar.

Situation 3: Is typically the dd sitting broadside in smoke, camping on the cap. If it wasn't for radar being so 'scarey' the dd in this situation would be complaining about not being able to spot torpedoes when in smoke.

Explain then why practically every DM player goes and parks behind an island close to caps at the beginning of every game?

I know all the common spots where they go, but it does not change the fact that radar through land is a retarded mechanic.

Also, lol at T10 a smoke camping dd is a potato and needs to be slapped hard by reality.

Edited by Vaitmana

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Talking about radar is pointless

 

The people who need it to function against ships that were still countered perfectly fine before radar's introduction will just continue to shriek that it is 100% needed/necessary and removing it or even changing it in any way is tantamount to deleting three entire cruiser lines from the game.

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Does radar need to be removed?

In a word, no.

 

Tears of the Desert... I wouldn't mind if that went away.

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Radar doesn't need to be removed, it only needs to be fixed so it works off of line of sight. yes, I understand they need a massive re-code to be able to do that, but that is what is needed. Hydro and Radar both need to be line of sight only.

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Paper:  “Rock is fine, nerf scissors.”

 

CAs are already struggling to have a role in this game as the best anti-DD ships are other DDs.  Removing radar would just make that even more evident.

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I will only speak to Tears ep, there is nothing wrong with it. I am very sorry i didn't save the replays but IF (that a big IF) you have a team that would listen, you can flank the opposing team that is hiding , i have done it many time and it only takes your team to just communicate.

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2 hours ago, gcangel82 said:

The answer to radar is make it a double edge sword just like smoke is.  You use it, you light up along with the enemy.

With the exception of a couple ships radar range is less than detection range... meaning 99% of the time you're already detected if your radar actually finds anything.

 

Additionally, if you radar and actually use it instead of wasting it by shooting your guns, then you'll be lit up by gun bloom.

 

As for radar thru islands... irrelevant since radaring someone thru a rock means they just wasted a radar because while radar may go thru rock... high explosive shells do not (speaking in terms of uncoordinated Randoms of course, not coordinated teams... but of course coordinated teams would figure out a way to punish dds who come too close regardless of if they had radar or not)

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1 hour ago, Vaitmana said:

Explain then why practically every DM player goes and parks behind an island close to caps at the beginning of every game?

I know all the common spots where they go, but it does not change the fact that radar through land is a retarded mechanic.

Also, lol at T10 a smoke camping dd is a potato and needs to be slapped hard by reality.

Explain then why, if you know that every des Moines player does this, you still put yourself in a situation to get lit up by his radar?  (And if you come back saying you don't... then you're tacitly admitting radar is not a problem because you avoid it.)

 

Like the dude who puts his head in the alligators mouth... this sounds like a problem with your decision making skills more than anything else... or a weak post hoc rationalization for the removal of something that potentially hard counters your ability to run the table without any viable counter.

Edited by Shadeylark
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