Rekkoff

They need to do something about the amount of HE being fired...

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119 posts in this topic

16 hours ago, DQCraze said:

Wasnt a det he hit cits

 

 

You said, "Well since i had a chinese lvl 7 destroyer delete my fiji in one hit with 49k damage"

 

Something doesn't add up. First off, a Fiji doesn't even have 49k HP. If it did, it would require 24 hits, all citadels. That's 4 salvoes (I assume when you said "one hit", you were talking about salvoes) with no misses, bounces, regular pens, or overpens.

 

Even at the 31.4k the Fiji does have, that's still 3 salvoes, although you only need the equivalent of 15 citadel hits out of 18 shells fired.


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6 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

like a cruiser can hit your BB with almost every single gun barrel when it shoots at you?

 

mXyupD1.gif.c8639887d709798e9d45e6a843b1e051.gif

 

 

 

 

In all seriousness though, if a BB can citadel a cruiser with every shot it fires, then we truly have ceased being world of warships and become world of battleships.  One need on get 1 citadel every other salvo or 1.5 regular pens each salvo to be out DPSing the cruiser.  The issue is DPS.   BBs have lower theoretical DPS than the cruisers, but higher real world DPS due to the lower pen values of the cruisers and damage saturation weakness of HE.   

 

Cruisers typical average about 10% higher accuracy than their equivalent tier BB and a RoF of about 3-4 times higher.  However when your practical damage per shot is 7 to 8 times higher in the BB, well there is a reason that the average damage of the BBs at each tier are higher than the average damage of the cruisers.   

 

If people want fire removed and HE damage lowered, then overmatch should be removed as well.  


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16 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

In all seriousness though, if a BB can citadel a cruiser with every shot it fires, then we truly have ceased being world of warships and become world of battleships.  One need on get 1 citadel every other salvo or 1.5 regular pens each salvo to be out DPSing the cruiser.  The issue is DPS.   BBs have lower theoretical DPS than the cruisers, but higher real world DPS due to the lower pen values of the cruisers and damage saturation weakness of HE.   

 

Cruisers typical average about 10% higher accuracy than their equivalent tier BB and a RoF of about 3-4 times higher.  However when your practical damage per shot is 7 to 8 times higher in the BB, well there is a reason that the average damage of the BBs at each tier are higher than the average damage of the cruisers.   

 

If people want fire removed and HE damage lowered, then overmatch should be removed as well.  

 

Thats why I'm asking you for a video showing you citadeling a cruiser every single salvo when its bow on/angled to you. A BB is not going to kill a cruiser in that situation unless it manages to land at least 3 citadels (vs full health CA) ..and in that time frame, the cruiser's HE will inflict SIGNIFICANT damage to a BB.. far more than half the BB's HP. If the cruiser gets fires on the BB it will sink it. 

 

I'm sorry 10%? Last I checked a cruiser hits a BB with almost every shell on any decently aimed shot. The dispersion of cruiser guns is TINY compared to a BB. I can get a Mogami 155 to hit with 12 of 15 gun barrels on a BB at max range with little effort.. I cannot say the same for my BB unless im at near point blank range. That's a massive difference. 

 

As for damage being higher..that's relatively incorrect in actual application. An angled cruiser will either take a single pen shell hit or multiple overpens. A single pen does equivalent damage to 1 well placed cruiser HE salvo on my BB (aka in Mogami 155 you can land 7k damage per salvo on a BB easily)..an overpen does a measly ~1.5k damage. Given 30s~ reload time my BB is going to be taking twice the damage from the cruiser than I can realistically hope to deal back to it every salvo. The only way to take down a cruiser quickly is with citadel hits..and those are based purely on RNG/gods of dispersion. A cruiser on the flip side, will deal HE damage regardless and thanks to the high refire rate and larger number of shells it fires, will be placing multiple fires on the BB. Cruisers have much higher DPS overall than BBs. 

 

I want HE and Fire to be reworked. But I acknowledge that would F over cruisers and DDs ability to hurt bigger ships than themselves. Thats why I want citadels gone and the other changes I typed in my first post. Do that and cruisers have a good fighting chance vs BBs.. but it won't be dumb-mode spamming HE.  


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53 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

Ah so you telling me you can citadel a cruiser bow on/angled EVERY single shot you take just like a cruiser can hit your BB with almost every single gun barrel when it shoots at you?

 

Do provide a video proving this. I'm eager to see you do it. 

 

Wait when is the only two available options 1 or all? Is there some ship I dont know about that only has 2 gun barrels? 


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15 minutes ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Wait when is the only two available options 1 or all? Is there some ship I dont know about that only has 2 gun barrels? 

 

HMS Furious? :Smile_hiding:


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30 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

 

Thats why I'm asking you for a video showing you citadeling a cruiser every single salvo when its bow on/angled to you. A BB is not going to kill a cruiser in that situation unless it manages to land at least 3 citadels (vs full health CA) ..and in that time frame, the cruiser's HE will inflict SIGNIFICANT damage to a BB.. far more than half the BB's HP. If the cruiser gets fires on the BB it will sink it. 

 

I'm sorry 10%? Last I checked a cruiser hits a BB with almost every shell on any decently aimed shot. The dispersion of cruiser guns is TINY compared to a BB. I can get a Mogami 155 to hit with 12 of 15 gun barrels on a BB at max range with little effort.. I cannot say the same for my BB unless im at near point blank range. That's a massive difference. 

 

As for damage being higher..that's relatively incorrect in actual application. An angled cruiser will either take a single pen shell hit or multiple overpens. A single pen does equivalent damage to 1 well placed cruiser HE salvo on my BB (aka in Mogami 155 you can land 7k damage per salvo on a BB easily)..an overpen does a measly ~1.5k damage. Given 30s~ reload time my BB is going to be taking twice the damage from the cruiser than I can realistically hope to deal back to it every salvo. The only way to take down a cruiser quickly is with citadel hits..and those are based purely on RNG/gods of dispersion. A cruiser on the flip side, will deal HE damage regardless and thanks to the high refire rate and larger number of shells it fires, will be placing multiple fires on the BB. Cruisers have much higher DPS overall than BBs. 

 

I want HE and Fire to be reworked. But I acknowledge that would F over cruisers and DDs ability to hurt bigger ships than themselves. Thats why I want citadels gone and the other changes I typed in my first post. Do that and cruisers have a good fighting chance vs BBs.. but it won't be dumb-mode spamming HE.  

 

A Mogami does not hit with 12 of 15 guns at max range everytime, if it did, the average accuracy on the ship would be in the high 80 percent instead of 30-40.  

 

You clearly do not understand the basic math or overmatch mechanics.  BBs need only hit a cruiser a dozen or so times to kill it with AP.  Cruisers need to hit the BB over a hundred times if it is driven with comparable skill.  The time needed to do so is woefully longer than the time needed for the BB to hit the cruiser with enough AP to kill it.  BBs already have an advantage over cruisers, they do not need a larger advantage.

 

 


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they need to make it so ap damage from ca/cl and dd is not repairable, then when a ships crew put out a fire the deck is "wet" in that section of the ship and cant catch fire for say 1 min, but if damage control is used all the immunity time is wiped out.

 

ap become more relivant and when fires gut put out folks switch to ap because decks are wet and cant catch fire again.


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7 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

 

A Mogami does not hit with 12 of 15 guns at max range everytime, if it did, the average accuracy on the ship would be in the high 80 percent instead of 30-40.  

 

You clearly do not understand the basic math or overmatch mechanics.  BBs need only hit a cruiser a dozen or so times to kill it with AP.  Cruisers need to hit the BB over a hundred times if it is driven with comparable skill.  The time needed to do so is woefully longer than the time needed for the BB to hit the cruiser with enough AP to kill it.  BBs already have an advantage over cruisers, they do not need a larger advantage.

 

 

+1


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21 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

It's amusing, funny to see.  Well, unless those guys are on your team.  Then it's really disgusting!

 

It's far from amusing when they're firing on your NC when you're angled and they're setting fires left and right.


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15 minutes ago, 1Sherman said:

 

It's far from amusing when they're firing on your NC when you're angled and they're setting fires left and right.

 

Then you manage your consumables better.  And stop showing your sides to an HE user so that they can set 3-4 fires on you.  People act like HE+Fires is a new threat that they need to suddenly account for.  It's always been here with the launch of the game in 2015.


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1 hour ago, SyndicatedINC said:

 

A Mogami does not hit with 12 of 15 guns at max range everytime, if it did, the average accuracy on the ship would be in the high 80 percent instead of 30-40.  

 

You clearly do not understand the basic math or overmatch mechanics.  BBs need only hit a cruiser a dozen or so times to kill it with AP.  Cruisers need to hit the BB over a hundred times if it is driven with comparable skill.  The time needed to do so is woefully longer than the time needed for the BB to hit the cruiser with enough AP to kill it.  BBs already have an advantage over cruisers, they do not need a larger advantage.

 

 

 

LOL that is exactly what happens with Cruisers.  You can be angled, at range, all that cr@p, and it all doesn't matter.  You'll still get citadeled the sh*t out of you no matter what.  Flamu was well angled, still loses most of his HP in one salvo.

 

Cruiser Life.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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53 minutes ago, SyndicatedINC said:

 

A Mogami does not hit with 12 of 15 guns at max range everytime, if it did, the average accuracy on the ship would be in the high 80 percent instead of 30-40.  

 

You clearly do not understand the basic math or overmatch mechanics.  BBs need only hit a cruiser a dozen or so times to kill it with AP.  Cruisers need to hit the BB over a hundred times if it is driven with comparable skill.  The time needed to do so is woefully longer than the time needed for the BB to hit the cruiser with enough AP to kill it.  BBs already have an advantage over cruisers, they do not need a larger advantage.

 

 

+1 
I've never seen any Mogami or Ibuki or Kutuzov or Chapayev ever get that accurate on BBs. 
Aswell ,it's important to point out that Mogami with 203 mm guns only has 10 barrels
Mogami with 155s have 15 barrels, but it's good to note that the range is only 15.7km
Which at Tier 8 isn't that long.
The NO has 16.2, the Hipper at 17.7km, Chapayev at 17.3.  Not to mention stuff like Kutuzov at 19km, Prinz Eugen near same range as her sister, and Baltimore will actually be taking NO's spot at T8 soon. 
At a short range, against the typical stupid BB that charges in or sits you can certainly hit a lot of shells, but rarely over 90% even then. Even in my Bismarck, a Kutuzov firing at me from 15-17km away would hit about 4-5 shells per salvo. Cruiser accuracy ain't that good. Mogami has the 'benefit' of having a shorter range that forces her in closer, which results in an accuracy improvement. 

 

4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

Then you manage your consumables better.  And stop showing your sides to an HE user so that they can set 3-4 fires on you.  People act like HE+Fires is a new threat that they need to suddenly account for.  It's always been here with the launch of the game in 2015.

This. So much this. Run premium repair + the damage control systems module that reduces fire chance by like 5% and manage yourself. Remember that fire damage isn't that big of a deal. Stop sitting, scare off the HE spammer with a salvo and disengage. Repair, lick your wounds (heals 100% of fire), and get back in.  If you really must, run fire prevention skill to get only 1 superstructure. 

But honestly, Flamu's Berserker build he uses on Scharnhorst is perfect. CE + Super Intendant + Adrenaline Rush + Premium Heal and Repair Party works great. You don't have to worry about fires because your consumable reloads fast. Let the fire tick down and abuse the faster reload, then repair and heal yourself after using CE to disengage. 
All it takes to reduce fire issues is proper positioning and consumable management.


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1 hour ago, 1nv4d3rZ1m said:

Wait when is the only two available options 1 or all? Is there some ship I dont know about that only has 2 gun barrels? 

 

This ship sucks, either I get no citadels or all citadels.

 

IMG_6084_e2.jpg


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1 hour ago, Tempered_Tantrum said:

they need to make it so ap damage from ca/cl and dd is not repairable, then when a ships crew put out a fire the deck is "wet" in that section of the ship and cant catch fire for say 1 min, but if damage control is used all the immunity time is wiped out.

 

ap become more relivant and when fires gut put out folks switch to ap because decks are wet and cant catch fire again.

 

Sounds like a fine idea.

 

When a cruiser uses repair it should get a buff "polished belt". While the belt is polished all shells from BBs bounce harmlessly.

 

But if they fire a main calibur HE shell then soot from the shell removes the buff.  So it encourages them to fire AP.

 

Also you are aware that repair already gives a time off fire immunity is all locations, right?


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2 minutes ago, Grizley said:

 

This ship sucks, either I get no citadels or all citadels.

 

IMG_6084_e2.jpg

^+1 You get the +1, the lols and what a great idea for a March special event. Battle of Hampton Roads! The monitors (BB's) will be 99.4% immune to fire and the cruisers and DD's (frigates will have to stand in as substitutes) will all be matchbooks, literally! I like it.


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3 hours ago, 1Sherman said:

 

It's far from amusing when they're firing on your NC when you're angled and they're setting fires left and right.

 

Only left for me, I have FP.:Smile_hiding:


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4 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

Then you manage your consumables better.  And stop showing your sides to an HE user so that they can set 3-4 fires on you.  People act like HE+Fires is a new threat that they need to suddenly account for.  It's always been here with the launch of the game in 2015.

 

I do. I wait until I have two or more fires and I heal up when I want to save my Damage Control. However, no sooner than when my Damage Control goes on cooldown do I get lit on fire again.


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@Skyfaller

I have thought on it and yes no amount of flags or builds will prevent you from being burned to the water line if your are being focused by multiple ships, however neither will AP.  No one likes being set on fire multiple times, and certain ships its obvious that HE spam is the best way to deal out damage and they have a higher chance to set fires that others.  That being said we all know the deal at this point, the fire mechanic is not going anywhere so might as well get use to it and mitigate the damage the best you can, remember when 4 fires were a thing?  Take that into consideration...

Edited by knice_destroyer

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