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The HMS Leander

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HMS Leander   45 members have voted

  1. 1. Does the Leander have sufficient main battery range?

    • It's more than sufficient
      8
    • It's good enough
      27
    • It's on the shorter side of things and can use a buff
      10
  2. 2. Is the Leander fragile?

    • It's too fragile or unrealistically fragile
      2
    • It's somewhat fragile but it's reasonable
      29
    • It's fine the way it is cause it has good concealment, smoke, small citadel, and thin plating that causes overpens...
      14
  3. 3. The Leander's consumables: heal, hydro, and smoke

    • They're good and appropriate as is
      44
    • They can use buffs to further strengthen the ship's specialization which balances out its shortcomings elsewhere
      1
  4. 4. Should the Leander's semi-AP ammo be able to start fires as to counter bow on enemies or so that the ship is not bullies by HE firing enemies?

    • The way the ammo behaves and the ammo selection are reasonable/historical and should stay as is
      32
    • Giving it a small fire chance is reasonable given the ammo's semi-AP design and explosive filler
      4
    • Buff the gun's handling, ROF, range, or such to compensate for the lack of the ability to start fires
      3
    • Just give the ship conventional HE rounds also
      6

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16 posts in this topic

Hello everyone, I've recently finished the grind to the Fiji in the Leander. It's been weeks since I first brought it, as I've mostly only been playing it just to get the daily bonus. Originally the ship felt very challenging and difficult to play, despite being an obvious step up from the British cruisers found from tiers 3 to 5 (with their thin and huge citadels). The Leander seemed fragile even when hit by the weakest and smallest caliber enemy weapons, and its ability and ideal method of doing damage seemed weird if not weak by conventional standards. Towards the tail end of my grind, I've become able to have fairly decent and fun games in the ship, although my frustration with the ship's strange specialization and traits remain. :Smile_sceptic: In practice, even the slightest mistake in this ship could be fatal. Your life seem to flash before your eyes when an enemy battleship sneezes. :Smile_sad:

 

As it seems the ship's advantages include:

- The availability of heal, hydroacoustic search, and smoke. All 3 are highly useful but in practice don't seem to help enough.  

- It loses almost no speed in a turn allowing you to dodge enemy shots and torps.

- Its concealment seems to be good. Although it isn't much consolation for someone who enjoys aggressive brawling.

- The 152mm guns and their semi AP ammo seem to do solid damage to broadside on enemies of all ship classes, especially if they are distracted.

- The torps do decent damage and have good arcs and okay range. The single shot or spread torp system offers some flexibility. 

- Aside from the citadel, the rest of the ship seems to get overpens when hit by heavy enemy shells. 

 

Meanwhile the ship seems to suffer in other ways such as:

- The guns have a high arc, slow shell speed, and a mediocre 13.2km range. This minimize your ability to damage enemies from inside a smoke screen or damage maneuvering enemies. 

- I cannot start fires with my main armament due to the lack of a true HE ammo. This is a lot of trouble when engaging bow on enemies, DDs included. So many harmless bounces even off the superstructure. Ironically I've seen my 102mm secondaries starting fires...

- The very very thin armor found on the ship everywhere other than the citadel is highly vulnerable to the typical HE spam encountered in pub battles. They tend to roll high, destroy modules, and start fires. 

- While the ships turns well, its top speed of 33 knots often isn't fast enough for you to get out of dodge. (vs. DDs and some cruisers)

- When not using smoke or terrain cover, the Leander feels outgunned by virtually every other same tier cruisers, especially if they fire some HE. 

- Battleship secondaries, gunboat DDs (especially US and Soviet) are very dangerous to the Leander as it's vulnerable to fires and solid damage by small caliber enemy rounds. 

- The Leander seems to have no meaning torpedo defense system in place. Usually 2 hits with Japanese torpedos is enough to send it to the bottom. 

- It seems to have a very bad RNG when receiving damage. Sometimes the majority of your health evaporated in the blink of an eye. 

- The ship is often agile enough to avoid being hit by air strikes, but its AA (especially without defensive fire) is nowhere near the degree of potency needed to frustrate a well planned attack by a CV. 

- Even with the superintendent skill, the number of smoke and heals available remain insufficient in some games.

- When firing at enemies in smoke, you often need friendlies to spot but they often don't. Also the relative window of safety in terms of engagement distance between your 13.2km maxium range and a range at which the enemies can neutralize you via torp spam, blind fire, hydroacoustic search, radar, secondary guns tends to be small... 

 

I've produced this YouTube video featuring 2 of my better replays in the ship. Please feel free watch and let me know what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong in the ship. Suggestions and recommendations on how to better utilize and equip the ship are always welcome, especially since I've researched the Fiji. In a sense I wish if the ship was less situational and can stand its ground better in a conventional gun fight. 

 

I've thought about a couple changes/buffs that might help the ship:

- Increase the official thickness of the plating on the bow, stern, and superstructure of the ship to give it some resistance against HE hits, fires, and overmatch autopens by AP rounds. 

- Buff or improve the consumables it carries. (longer smoke duration and better heal)

- I think the semi AP ammo the ship's main battery uses was designed to penetrate the thin plating of unarmored or under-armored enemy targets and they do carry some explosive filler. Is it fair and realistic to say that they can and will never start fires?   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_6_inch_Mk_XXIII_naval_gun#Ammunition

 

Please feel free to chime in. And oh, I can always use more subscribers too. :Smile_honoring:


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Personally I am quite pleased with my Leander it is my favorite little cruiser at teir 6 and (I think I have tried all of them) fragile yes but that adds to the fun of it.


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Who cares about Leander...you've reached the Fiji...the fun starts now...most OP cruiser for it's tier(although I finished it right before the smoke spotting nerf...so results may vary...but the handling is such that most of the time I'd just use my smoke for teammates & sail right through)can dodge most attacks & deal sufficient regrets to those that attempted & failed.

Note: Leander's barrels...like most guitar amplifiers...go to 10...Spinal Taps amplifiers go to 11...Fiji's barrels go to 12.

Oh...wait...Leander's only got 8 barrels...for some reason I was remembering an imaginary 5th turret...damn...that just threw my whole Spinal Tap analogy out the window...but not only is the point made but now it's amplified(see what I did there?)...Fiji's the shiznit...don't dwell on the Leander(actually I had no problems w/Leander...just the boost to Fiji was all that so never looked back).

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos
Bad memory made for bad analogy.

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3 hours ago, CSSBT said:

As it seems the ship's advantages include:

- The availability of heal, hydroacoustic search, and smoke. All 3 are highly useful but in practice don't seem to help enough.  

- It loses almost no speed in a turn allowing you to dodge enemy shots and torps.

- Its concealment seems to be good. Although it isn't much consolation for someone who enjoys aggressive brawling.

- The 152mm guns and their semi AP ammo seem to do solid damage to broadside on enemies of all ship classes, especially if they are distracted.

- The torps do decent damage and have good arcs and okay range. The single shot or spread torp system offers some flexibility. 

- Aside from the citadel, the rest of the ship seems to get overpens when hit by heavy enemy shells. 

Oh my, if you are the kind of player who wants to do aggressive brawling, do NOT keep going on the UK CL line.  They just get more and more fragile going up. 

 

You forgot the primary benefit of this ship - it disproportionately helps to win battles by supporting your destroyers take caps, and killing enemy destroyers. That is your primary job.  

 

With quite a few Leander battles up my sleeve (I kept it, and the Fiji, and the Minotaur) the playstyle is very different to all other lines in the game (which, imo, makes it fun once you hit the Leander).  Essentially, UK CLs play the "aggressive defence" style - you rush forward to a strategic point (usually the corner of an island near a cap that your DDs are contesting), using your good stealth to not immediately die on the approach.  YOu smoke up, and gun all enemy DDs in that cap, that are ideally spotted by your friendly destroyers.  You then plink away at any cruisers (as they dont have heals) that are not bow on, as your guns arent effective bow on.  Then, before the smoke runs out, you start falling back behind the hard island cover.  Wash, rinse, repeat, win. 

 

3 hours ago, CSSBT said:

Meanwhile the ship seems to suffer in other ways such as:

- The guns have a high arc, slow shell speed, and a mediocre 13.2km range. This minimize your ability to damage enemies from inside a smoke screen or damage maneuvering enemies. 

- I cannot start fires with my main armament due to the lack of a true HE ammo. This is a lot of trouble when engaging bow on enemies, DDs included. So many harmless bounces even off the superstructure. Ironically I've seen my 102mm secondaries starting fires...

- The very very thin armor found on the ship everywhere other than the citadel is highly vulnerable to the typical HE spam encountered in pub battles. They tend to roll high, destroy modules, and start fires. 

- While the ships turns well, its top speed of 33 knots often isn't fast enough for you to get out of dodge. (vs. DDs and some cruisers)

- When not using smoke or terrain cover, the Leander feels outgunned by virtually every other same tier cruisers, especially if they fire some HE. 

- Battleship secondaries, gunboat DDs (especially US and Soviet) are very dangerous to the Leander as it's vulnerable to fires and solid damage by small caliber enemy rounds. 

- The Leander seems to have no meaning torpedo defense system in place. Usually 2 hits with Japanese torpedos is enough to send it to the bottom. 

- It seems to have a very bad RNG when receiving damage. Sometimes the majority of your health evaporated in the blink of an eye. 

- The ship is often agile enough to avoid being hit by air strikes, but its AA (especially without defensive fire) is nowhere near the degree of potency needed to frustrate a well planned attack by a CV. 

- Even with the superintendent skill, the number of smoke and heals available remain insufficient in some games.

- When firing at enemies in smoke, you often need friendlies to spot but they often don't. Also the relative window of safety in terms of engagement distance between your 13.2km maxium range and a range at which the enemies can neutralize you via torp spam, blind fire, hydroacoustic search, radar, secondary guns tends to be small... 

 

The Leander has weakenesses, but the primary one is that it does almost zero damage per salvo on bow-on cruisers and battleships.  But, that's why you have single fire torps.  Make them eat a facefull of fishes instead of lead in the sky. 

 

Personally, I would like marginally more AA (particuarly long range) but only enough to regularly shoot down 1 plane of a same tier squadron at 5km before it nails you. I dont think this is too much to ask, but in Ranked I found I needed the AA flag to achieve this about 3/4 of the time; the remainder I was just spotted and often lost the match :\. 

 

3 hours ago, CSSBT said:

I've produced this YouTube video featuring 2 of my better replays in the ship. Please feel free watch and let me know what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong in the ship. Suggestions and recommendations on how to better utilize and equip the ship are always welcome, especially since I've researched the Fiji. In a sense I wish if the ship was less situational and can stand its ground better in a conventional gun fight. 

 

I've thought about a couple changes/buffs that might help the ship:

- Increase the official thickness of the plating on the bow, stern, and superstructure of the ship to give it some resistance against HE hits, fires, and overmatch autopens by AP rounds. 

- Buff or improve the consumables it carries. (longer smoke duration and better heal)

- I think the semi AP ammo the ship's main battery uses was designed to penetrate the thin plating of unarmored or under-armored enemy targets and they do carry some explosive filler. Is it fair and realistic to say that they can and will never start fires?   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_6_inch_Mk_XXIII_naval_gun#Ammunition

 

Please feel free to chime in. And oh, I can always use more subscribers too. :Smile_honoring:

 

Will try to watch later, but if you're playing aggressive defence, then you'll often win (regardless of high damage totals - you deal damage to DDs, it gives more XP than fire spamming BBs who just heal it back). 


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Leander is fine as is.  She already has enough tools in her bag and doesn't need any more buffs.


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I also really like Leander.  She was the first UK cruiser I enjoyed.  She is a bit fragile for a T6 cruiser, but she does have smoke and torpedoes.  I have seen several players who were very good at moving up to the fight with the DD's, popping smoke, and beating the enemy back.  They would then push up, smoke again, and repeat.  If you make a mistake, yes, you can be punished quickly and harshly.  But if you don't make many mistakes you can part the seas with just a little help from a couple of team mates.

I kept Leander because I enjoyed her.  A free premium camo certainly didn't hurt, either (Type 12, won via campaign).


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2nd best non-premium cruiser at tier VI in the last 2 weeks or win rate, and third for damage.

 

She's a decent ship, I really don't think she needs buffs.


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16 hours ago, desmo_2 said:

I also really like Leander.  She was the first UK cruiser I enjoyed.  She is a bit fragile for a T6 cruiser, but she does have smoke and torpedoes.  I have seen several players who were very good at moving up to the fight with the DD's, popping smoke, and beating the enemy back.  They would then push up, smoke again, and repeat.  If you make a mistake, yes, you can be punished quickly and harshly.  But if you don't make many mistakes you can part the seas with just a little help from a couple of team mates.

I kept Leander because I enjoyed her.  A free premium camo certainly didn't hurt, either (Type 12, won via campaign).

See the key is to have decent DDs on your side. But sometimes that's too much to ask... 

19 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Leander is fine.  I'm surprised you called Leander fragile, OP, considering the train wreck that was in the previous tier called "Emerald."

 

Last Tier VI Ranked, the two best Cruisers were Perth and Leander, in that order.

XJDwqZw.jpg

Well it's true that the British cruisers below tier 6 are utter trainwrecks as they are mostly made of citadels. I suspect ranked is somewhat of a different environment than pub though. In pub sometimes a ally put you in a bad spot and there are too many enemies that can focus fire on you. :Smile_sceptic:


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Leander is a bit 'meh', until you get a 10pt captain and put CE on it.

Then it becomes quite strong.


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18 hours ago, UltimateNewbie said:

With quite a few Leander battles up my sleeve (I kept it, and the Fiji, and the Minotaur) the playstyle is very different to all other lines in the game (which, imo, makes it fun once you hit the Leander).  Essentially, UK CLs play the "aggressive defence" style - you rush forward to a strategic point (usually the corner of an island near a cap that your DDs are contesting), using your good stealth to not immediately die on the approach.  YOu smoke up, and gun all enemy DDs in that cap, that are ideally spotted by your friendly destroyers.  You then plink away at any cruisers (as they dont have heals) that are not bow on, as your guns arent effective bow on.  Then, before the smoke runs out, you start falling back behind the hard island cover.  Wash, rinse, repeat, win. 

     This is it for RN cruisers to T8. 

     You have to play aggressively and the ship just begs you to do that.   The RN CL are the best DD killers out there, and put the hurt on CL and BB too, unless they're bow on.  When they get to within 6 km and are closing you either finish them off, or exit if there's 2 or more healthy reds.  Get 8.8 km away and go dark and you're OK.

     Don't forget to hydro hunt single or paired DD's in smoke.  Long as they're not covered by heavies you can delete them in 2 or 3 salvos at 6 km or closer.


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20 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Who cares about Leander...you've reached the Fiji...the fun starts now...most OP cruiser for it's tier(although I finished it right before the smoke spotting nerf...so results may vary...but the handling is such that most of the time I'd just use my smoke for teammates & sail right through)can dodge most attacks & deal sufficient regrets to those that attempted & failed.

Yup. Fiji's a blast to play. She's become my favorite CL. Leander is still fun too. She may not have as many guns with as long of a range, or be as maneuverable as Fiji, but she's still a good ship.


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2 hours ago, CSSBT said:

See the key is to have decent DDs on your side. But sometimes that's too much to ask... 

Well it's true that the British cruisers below tier 6 are utter trainwrecks as they are mostly made of citadels. I suspect ranked is somewhat of a different environment than pub though. In pub sometimes a ally put you in a bad spot and there are too many enemies that can focus fire on you. :Smile_sceptic:

 

The demands for Perth and Leander went up in Ranked for some simple reasons.

 

First and foremost, Ranked teams are small.  As a consequence, the amount of DDs you have per team tend to be very few.  If / When the DDs all get killed off, Perth and Leander had excellent concealment ranges to actually edge their way into a cap and take it, preferably without smoke.  If they get spotted, then they got smoke, but still need to be smart about it (Leander can't smoke camp or risk torpedoes, but Perth can keep moving with her creeping smoke).

 

In contrast with large teams in Randoms, that demand for Leander and Perth isn't as high.  They can still do it but it's not as necessary as it was in Ranked.

 

The simple fact that Leander has smoke and Repair Party is already a huge advantage.  Most Cruisers below Tier IX have no Repair Party access.  Many Cruiser players wish they could have smoke for their Cruisers.  Leander could be right out in open water attacking BBs.  Other Cruisers like DeGrasse, La Gal, Graf Spee, even Cleveland if she wasn't hugging an island, would be crushed in open water combat.

 

Regarding other players, there is a simple truth:  Do not rely on them, not unless you know them as a good player.  Do not expect people to follow you in.  Do not expect that DD to drop smoke for you, "Because it makes sense to help a teammate."  Do not expect the CV to personally give you fighter cover all the time.  Do not expect people to make sensible match decisions.  Do not expect people to take actions for the benefit of the team.  The sooner you accept this, the less of a chance you'll get left out to dry by your "team."

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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25 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

The demands for Perth and Leander went up in Ranked for some simple reasons.

 

First and foremost, Ranked teams are small.  As a consequence, the amount of DDs you have per team tend to be very few.  If / When the DDs all get killed off, Perth and Leander had excellent concealment ranges to actually edge their way into a cap and take it, preferably without smoke.  If they get spotted, then they got smoke, but still need to be smart about it (Leander can't smoke camp or risk torpedoes, but Perth can keep moving with her creeping smoke).

 

Yes, I agree with that.  I played the Leander a lot during the last Ranked season, and once you helped your team kill their DDs, even if your own DDs ate torps like noobs, you then became the destroyer replacement with your excellent stealth.  Cruise in, take caps, deploy smoke, and win it for your team. 

 

It was glorious!


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On 12/8/2017 at 3:03 AM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

The demands for Perth and Leander went up in Ranked for some simple reasons.

 

First and foremost, Ranked teams are small.  As a consequence, the amount of DDs you have per team tend to be very few.  If / When the DDs all get killed off, Perth and Leander had excellent concealment ranges to actually edge their way into a cap and take it, preferably without smoke.  If they get spotted, then they got smoke, but still need to be smart about it (Leander can't smoke camp or risk torpedoes, but Perth can keep moving with her creeping smoke).

 

In contrast with large teams in Randoms, that demand for Leander and Perth isn't as high.  They can still do it but it's not as necessary as it was in Ranked.

 

The simple fact that Leander has smoke and Repair Party is already a huge advantage.  Most Cruisers below Tier IX have no Repair Party access.  Many Cruiser players wish they could have smoke for their Cruisers.  Leander could be right out in open water attacking BBs.  Other Cruisers like DeGrasse, La Gal, Graf Spee, even Cleveland if she wasn't hugging an island, would be crushed in open water combat.

 

Regarding other players, there is a simple truth:  Do not rely on them, not unless you know them as a good player.  Do not expect people to follow you in.  Do not expect that DD to drop smoke for you, "Because it makes sense to help a teammate."  Do not expect the CV to personally give you fighter cover all the time.  Do not expect people to make sensible match decisions.  Do not expect people to take actions for the benefit of the team.  The sooner you accept this, the less of a chance you'll get left out to dry by your "team."

So effectively the Perth is a premium that's simply superior to its tech tree counterpart... This seems to be a thing WG has been pushing, strong and competitive premiums... 

 

And unfortunately I think nowadays at times the teams would be should I say incompetent enough that one would know how it would work out fairly early on... After owning the Montana for a few days, I've already had many high damage losses. :Smile_sad:


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