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LittleWhiteMouse

Scouting & Experience Gains

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Spotting, Scouting and Experience Gains

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Wouldn't it be nice if people were encouraged to dig invisible ships out of smoke?   Well good news:  They are.  And now we know roughly by how much.
 
 Scouting and controlling vision in World of Warships wins games.  This is, in part, what makes destroyers and aircraft carriers so influential within a match.  When there is a pronounced skill disparity between ships of these types between the two teams, the results of the battle can feel so terribly one sided.  However, as important as providing vision for your team and blinding the enemy was, for a long time there was no credit or experience reward for this winning behaviour.  It wasn't until patch 0.5.12 in September of 2016 that scouting was properly rewarded.
 
But this raised the question -- how rewarding was it?  Could a player earn enough through scouting to supplement the lower damage that would often result from playing a more passive role?  I had the opportunity to sit down with Boyarsky, the Publishing Director of World of Warships North America, while I was in the process of writing my review for USS Kidd.  He was kind enough  to talk a little about the rewards a player receives for scouting in World of Warships.  But first, let's get into some definitions.
 
  • SCOUTING: The act of trying to detect and spot the enemy team.
  • DETECTING:  This is the act of initially discovering an enemy vessel and lighting them up on the minimap.  
  • SPOTTING:  This is the act of providing vision onto a detected enemy vessel and through the vision you provide, enabling your team to target them and do damage.
 
Boyarsky described all these rewards in terms of equivalencies of damaging a same-tier enemy ship.  In this manner, it's easy to compare how rewarding scouting can be versus doing the damage to the enemies yourself. This will be described as an X% of XP/Credits for full HP damage to a ship.  Thus, if someone would earn 10,000 credits for removing all of the hit points of an enemy ship and detecting provided 1% of this, the reward for detecting an enemy ship would be 100 credits.
 
Note that these rewards vary per ship-type being played.  This comes from a combination of risk-reward factors and economy reasons to encourage player behaviour.
 

The Root of all Evil
Here's a rough guide on how experience and credits are earned in World of Warships.  This was taken from "The Root of All Evil", a document Wargaming circulated early on in the game's release.  The values here may not be exact as things were modified with the economy change in 0.5.12.

  • For Damage, you're awarded by the percentage of a ship's hit points you remove, not the amount of raw damage done.  Thus, 10,000 damage done to a destroyer is worth more than 10,000 damage done to a battleship.  This scales depending on the tier disparity between ships.  You earn more for damaging a higher tiered ship than you would a lower tiered ship.
  • Frags award the equivalent of doing 15% of the ship's hit points in damage.  Sinking enemy ships is important and awarded accordingly.
  • Shooting down Aircraft also provides rewards.  Shooting down 40 aircraft rewards roughly the same amount as removing 100% of the hit points of a similar tiered ship.
  • The more Base Capture and Base Defense points you earn, the better.
  • Rewards do not scale linearly.  As an example, if you destroy one cruiser you get one whole pie. Two destroyed cruisers bring about one whole pie and one more with a bite taken out of it. Should you destroy three cruisers, two whole pies will be the reward.
  • Rewards scale with tiers. For XP, a two-fold difference is possible between Tiers I and X. For credits, the difference may be even bigger.
  • We do not yet know how damage tanking affects experience and credit earnings.
 
Detecting
There's a reward provided for being up on the front lines and discovering the location of hidden enemy ships.  When an enemy vessel that isn't visible is lit up, the ship responsible receives a small reward for this action.  The reward breakdown is as follows:
  • CV receive 0.75% of XP/Credits for full HP damage to a ship.
  • BB receive 1.50% of XP/Credits for full HP damage to a ship.
  • DD receive 2.00% of XP/Credits for full HP damage to a ship.
  • CA receive 3.25% of XP/Credits for full HP damage to a ship.

This reward is received every time you light up an enemy vessel that has been invisible for at least 30 seconds.   

 Immediately it should become apparent that cruisers benefit most from detecting enemy ships and with good reason. Cruisers risk the most providing direct sight upon enemies.  They're also the most likely to be equipped with special consumables to allow them to do so, with Hydroacoustic Search and Surveillance Radar.   Aircraft carriers benefit the least from this mechanic as they risk much less when detecting enemy ships.
 
In order for this to pay off, a cruiser would need to detect ships 30 times within a match to earn the equivalent of doing damage enough to sink one enemy ship, while a destroyer would have to do this 50 times within a match.  Just looking back over one of my own replays, even with taking a forward, aggressive stance in a destroyer, the solo-detection opportunities numbered no more than a dozen occurrences.  This would yield the equivalent of doing approximately 25% of the experience and credits earned for doing direct damage instead.
 
Spotting
While a game spent detecting enemy ships will not yield very much in the way of rewards, spotting can be much more engaging.  Spotting is the act of providing constant vision upon enemy ships for allies that would not be able to see the ships themselves.  Every time an ally does damage against a ship they could not detect without help, the ship providing the vision receives a spotting reward.  Unlike in Wargaming's other IP, World of Tanks, the reward is not split between the two ships, but instead the spotting vessel receives a bonus.  This bonus scales directly to the percentage of health done to a ship -- not the total damage dealt.  Thus, a spotting ship earns more rewards for 1,000 damage done to a destroyer than it would for 1,000 damage done to a battleship.
 
  • BB receives approximately 10% of the reward for full HP damage to a spotted ship.
  • CV receives approximately 20% of the reward for full HP damage to a spotted ship.
  • CA receives approximately 30% of the reward for full HP damage to a spotted ship.
  • DD receives approximately 40% of the reward for full HP damage to a spotted ship.
 
There are, of course, some immediate complications.
 
  • The attacking ship must not be able to detect the enemy target at all.
  • In order to collect the reward, the spotting ship must have vision upon the target at the moment the attacker's shells or torpedoes land.
  • If multiple ships are spotting, the reward is calculated individually and then divided by the number of ships providing vision.  So a destroyer that was spotting with the assistance of 4 other ships would receive 40% of the damage done as a reward divided by 5.
  • You do not get any spotting rewards for Damage over Time effects, such as Fires or Floods.

It doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to see how a destroyer in particular could earn a tremendous amount of experience and credits without ever firing a shot.  If a destroyer could sneak over to the far side of the map and continually spot the enemy team, the rewards should be really high, right?  Well, kinda...

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Aircraft carriers are particularly adept at scouting, but it's not an easy job by any means.  They have to be aware of the range of enemy anti-aircraft batteries and the intercept speeds of enemy aircraft.  An allied CV providing vision can help their team utterly dominate their opponents.
 
Challenges with Scouting

The problems with dedicating yourself to maximizing the rewards with scouting are threefold.

  1. Team composition.
  2. Limited opportunity to do direct damage
  3. Visibility when a ship fires both within and outside of smoke.

Team composition can largely dictate how much experience will be earned in a given match from scouting. Aircraft carriers can dominate the spotting and detection gains, diluting the amount of rewards earned by surface vessels.  Radar equipped ships can keep destroyers at arm's length and limit the amount of movement around the map.  A battleship-heavy game will have less spotting opportunities as their gun bloom will make them visible to almost everyone on the map, barring island cover. 

For surface ships, actively scouting can often preclude you from doing damage yourself.  Launching attacks gives away your position and for ships like destroyers and some cruisers, this can be a death sentence if you've moved to extend your vision as far out as possible.  
 
But the real kicker is the way visibility changes when firing guns.  How can you spot ships for your allies when the enemy keep giving their position away to the whole map when they fire their main battery?  This greatly dilutes the amount of rewards available for ships within the battle line.   The changes in smoke have also mitigated this, with ships sitting in smoke capable of detecting enemies firing their guns from beyond -- allies are no longer reliant upon having a friend scout for them while they're hiding. 
 
Consumables have become the answer in some regards.  Clever use of a Smoke Generator can provide cover and concealment for your allies while simultaneously limiting their line of sight.  You can then scout beyond your own smoke screen and relay all of the targeting information for your allies.
 
Hydroacoustic Search and Surveillance Radar have become all the more important in the scouting game, especially for cruisers.  Proper coordination with allies can allow such ships to reap large rewards as the well timed use of these spotting abilities unmasks and sees the destruction of previously-concealed targets.  Even without doing the direct damage themselves, being able to hoover up the equivalent of 1/3rd to nearly 1/2 of damage done to a ship is no small prize.
 
Summary
Scouting can provide a handsome supplement to the rewards already earned within a match from doing direct damage, however, it takes a concerted effort to maximize the amount a player can gain in this way -- often at the expense of doing  damage themselves.
 
 Detection Rewards:
  • CV receive 0.75% of XP/Credits for full HP damage to a ship.
  • BB receive 1.50% of XP/Credits for full HP damage to a ship.
  • DD receive 2.00% of XP/Credits for full HP damage to a ship.
  • CA receive 3.25% of XP/Credits for full HP damage to a ship.

Spotting Rewards:

  • BB receives approximately 10% of the reward for full HP damage to a spotted ship.
  • CV receives approximately 20% of the reward for full HP damage to a spotted ship.
  • CA receives approximately 30% of the reward for full HP damage to a spotted ship.
  • DD receives approximately 40% of the reward for full HP damage to a spotted ship.

Scouting rewards are divided among all of the ships providing vision. 

Edited by LittleWhiteMouse
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of course, just as the scouting ability of USN CVs and Graf Zeppelin takes a major nerf with the removal of 2 x fighter loadouts.

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Well written, Interesting and informative thread. It's nice to know how detection and spotting are rewarded.

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So, at times Wargaming, and all these players shouting CV's should be scouting, and while I get the physical ship is not threatened, our aircraft, are ammo effectively and somewhat literally, is risked and lost over that little reward? Why are we supposed to be the one's scouting again when I can better position my aircraft to defend the team and attack targets better by not doing that?

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3 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

So, at times Wargaming, and all these players shouting CV's should be scouting, and while I get the physical ship is not threatened, our aircraft, are ammo effectively and somewhat literally, is risked and lost over that little reward? Why are we supposed to be the one's scouting again when I can better position my aircraft to defend the team and attack targets better by not doing that?

don't worry, now that USN CVs (and GZ) have been rebalanced with a maximum of one fighter squadron, they will not be doing any scouting, and nobody will expect them to. On the other hand, IJN CVs with their multiple fighter loadouts will remain excellent scouting platforms.

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Seems to me the gains from concentrating on scouting simply aren't worth doing that to the exclusion of all else.  It is nice to know that you do get something for it.

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Mouse you've done it again, the detailed information you offer goes above and beyond what is ordinary, and continues to astound, plus 1 to you.

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8 minutes ago, Pete_Darling said:

@LittleWhiteMouse Do we know how CA/CL and BB planes affect this as well? (Yes I know it doesn't matter that much)

Yes, any tools you use to detect or spot an enemy can earn you rewards -- this includes float plane aircraft.

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4 minutes ago, Pete_Darling said:

I guess I was asking if you feel or know, does it scale as direct LoS or similar to CV spotting? 

It's per ship type, not per vision source.  So a float-plane fighter launched from a cruiser generates cruiser rewards.

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14 minutes ago, Inputstingray12 said:

This may sound like a silly question but do you get more of a XP/Credits gain if you spot enemy's in a cyclone?

Nope, but you will pick up that detect bonus XP for lighting them if they haven't been seen for 30 seconds.

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Just now, LittleWhiteMouse said:

Nope, but you will pick up that detect bonus XP for lighting them if they haven't been seen for 30 seconds.

That's interesting to know.

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Perhaps coming from tanks, I never thought how spotting mechanics differed in WoWS. But this explanation is fantastic. Thank you, Mouse, this is a fantastic guide and one I will bookmark. +1 catnip cookie.

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Great post Mouse. Another wonderful batch of revealing information. 

I tend to think of DDs as I do light tanks in WoT. And great light drivers are the hardest to come by, IMHO.

 

Last night I was operating my Akatsuki and spotting (and torping into) the B cap.  I even say in chat, “going to be spotting B.” I forget which map but there’s an island protruding into the center B cap, and I spawned center, so...  I was low tier and in a torp boat, forward most position just outside the cap on the edge buying time and waiting to drop smoke for my approaching support. There were two BB and a CL all tier 8-9 behind me shooting at the guys I’m spotting and harassing with my torps, avoiding detection and certain death. I was using the island to my advantage. The B cap was entered and starting red and I am going back and forth just keeping the red guys visible and dodging my torps and got a Hit on a cruiser when this guy on my team starts calling me a COWARD over and over again on the chat.  I am driving a DD and not having time to answer this jagoff as he’s saying how much of a coward I am for not entering B and becoming a first blood victim.  It is the most annoying thing when you feel you’re doing the right thing and some guy is saying to report you because you’re a coward. I ended up staying alive most of the match and I did not get a lot of damage because I had only about 3 torps hit.  But I did manage to keep much of the red lit up for my team, which is what I thought my role was to be.  And I did manage to drop smoke for my higher tier gunboats. I was not in a tier nine DD gunboat.  And I think I finished somewhere middle of the pack as far as points and my team did win.  But not having time to say things because your flat out busy, and people on the other end of the map if they are not paying close attention do not realize you are actually contributing in a beneficial way. That is what really annoys me. 

Am I supposed to be overly aggressive in a low tier paper lion? Is it my role to die early with great valor having entered the cap for a few seconds only to expose myself to four enemy higher tier ships? Does dying early help my team if I haven't had time to affect change?    How many guys can I spot when I’m dead?  How do you expect your team did not play passively and to be more aggressive if they don’t have some kind of spotting to assist them? How many guys report you for that kind of thing? 

 

 Is it knowing your role one of the most important parts of the game?  What should I have done differently? 

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On 11/29/2017 at 7:06 AM, Capt_of_Satisfaction said:

Am I supposed to be overly aggressive in a low tier paper lion? Is it my role to die early with great valor having entered the cap for a few seconds only to expose myself to four enemy higher tier ships? Does dying early help my team if I haven't had time to affect change?

Common knowledge that a live DD is much more valuable to the team than a dead one. Getting killed to contest a cap or get one or two torp hits is not worth it early game. Don't know what DDs were on the red team or the number of radar ships but as a bottom tier ship of any class you have to play more conservative than you would if top tier (even then staying alive is a good thing). A number of DDs can out spot the Akatsuki so staying  close to but in front of your team is entirely acceptable. You provide target and torp spotting and keep enemy DDs from making runs on your ships. Entering a CAP may be exactly what a red radar/hydro ship is waiting for to light you up since they don't want to waste it. 

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On 29/11/2017 at 11:36 AM, Capt_of_Satisfaction said:

 The B cap was entered and starting red and I am going back and forth just keeping the red guys visible and dodging my torps and got a Hit on a cruiser when this guy on my team starts calling me a COWARD over and over again on the chat.  I am driving a DD and not having time to answer this jagoff as he’s saying how much of a coward I am for not entering B and becoming a first blood victim...  

Am I supposed to be overly aggressive in a low tier paper lion? Is it my role to die early with great valor having entered the cap for a few seconds only to expose myself to four enemy higher tier ships?

I hate people like that, not least because I am ALWAYS feeling under the obligation to take chances in my cruisers and destroyers (especially cruisers), often with game-ending results (the ships and aircraft that were providing line of sight move out of it and more than half of my time in smoke is wasted, with nasty surprises becoming evident when and if sighting is re-established; especially galling when the picture which is eventually revealed is one of weak cruisers sitting broadside on at almost zero speed, a feast that even an Emerald would have trouble scoring poorly with. Someone remind me which is the "I need intelligence data" key again?) 

The apotheosis of this came last night when I got myself blown to hellangone in my Clemson, mostly because I was stupid enough to accidentally ground myself when disengaging from a fight. The most aggravating part of it was the twit in chat accusing me of "running away and abandoning my colleagues" when in fact I had gone up front to scout and engage other small combatants. He even accused me of not having sunk anything, when in fact I clearly had two red ribbons (a cruiser and a destroyer) to show for the loss of my ship.

Unlike you, I had time on my hands to give him a serve.

I checked when the game was over. He was bottom of the board in a co-op game, having sunk nothing; he had token XP for being in the game. I duly and enthusiastically reported him for poor play and also for misbehaviour in chat (because he had blatantly LIED about the number of ships I'd sunk). The only other thing I didn't have time to determine is where his ship had gone down and what had been happening to him. I suppose I could dig up the replay and disconnect myself from my own ship to follow him, but it really isn't worth it after the event.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu
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It would be nice to see the break down of how much real-game ships actually are awarded for all of these fancy terms for basically not firing. While obviously there are its uses, is it an excuse just like "area denial torps"? 

I'd like to see the average earnings of DDs, CAs and CVs and how much they can earn from spotting. Since its been over and over said that a DD or a radar CA should not expect to do damage but instead spot for the team. Its also been said here that the average detecting was 12 ships a game, where 30 times was needed to even get close to the equivalent of one kill. 

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