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Sabot_100

US cruiser split vs Aoba

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Looks like a US cruiser split is going to happen with the likely scenario of Pensacola becoming the Tier 6 heavy. I assume it will be nerfed a bit and is not known for being a good ship as-is, but still wonder how a 6-gun Aoba competes against a 10-gun ship? The only advantage I see is the torps but they can be suicidal to try and use making them very situational advantages. Am I missing something?

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12 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Looks like a US cruiser split is going to happen with the likely scenario of Pensacola becoming the Tier 6 heavy. I assume it will be nerfed a bit and is not known for being a good ship as-is, but still wonder how a 6-gun Aoba competes against a 10-gun ship? The only advantage I see is the torps but they can be suicidal to try and use making them very situational advantages. Am I missing something?

How bout a nine gun cl for Germany france and Russia, or an 8 gun one for brits. Or am i missing something? Number of guns are meaningless in the  face of other parameters.

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2 minutes ago, Fog_Heavy_Cruiser_Takao said:

How bout a nine gun cl for Germany france and Russia, or an 8 gun one for brits. Or am i missing something? Number of guns are meaningless in the  face of other parameters.

In this case we are looking at 10 guns of the same size that Aoba brings. Yes they can adjust turret traverse (can it be slower than the Aoba?) or ROF. Seems like they would need a whole lot of nerfing to even out the DPM, range, etc.

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1 minute ago, Sabot_100 said:

In this case we are looking at 10 guns of the same size that Aoba brings. Yes they can adjust turret traverse (can it be slower than the Aoba?) or ROF. Seems like they would need a whole lot of nerfing to even out the DPM, range, etc.

I feel Aoba will have more accurate guns and possibly quicker firing

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3 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

In this case we are looking at 10 guns of the same size that Aoba brings.

And Leander has 8 guns which are smaller.

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Pensacola has 15 second reload at T7 if i remember right. Aoba has like a 10 second reload. this is off the top of my head so i could be wrong. but i'm pretty sure Pensacola's reload won't decrease on top of dropping a tier.

so Aoba has fewer but faster firing guns, is a faster ship, has torps with good kiting angles, and doesn't have Pensacola's sides.

the question is, how will the Pensacola compete with the Aoba?

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1 hour ago, Sabot_100 said:

Looks like a US cruiser split is going to happen with the likely scenario of Pensacola becoming the Tier 6 heavy. I assume it will be nerfed a bit and is not known for being a good ship as-is, but still wonder how a 6-gun Aoba competes against a 10-gun ship? The only advantage I see is the torps but they can be suicidal to try and use making them very situational advantages. Am I missing something?

Same concept of myogi vs wyoming. Both have thier advantages and both could kill each other easily

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23 minutes ago, RiverTheIdiot said:

Both have thier advantages and both could kill each other easily

Eggshells armed with hammers?

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2 hours ago, Lert said:

And Leander has 8 guns which are smaller.

And currently it also faces the Cleveland with 12 where It can try to seek engagement ranges where its 8" are more accurate/effective than the 6". Tougher to do when they are 8" shells coming back at you. Aoba is already not handling the competition all that well. Just wondering if that will get worse. Guess it depends on what happens to the Indy when downteired.

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30 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

Eggshells armed with hammers?

I wouldnt say they are eggshells. If you want eggshells prehaps you should run RN cl's after the smoke nerf

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17 minutes ago, RiverTheIdiot said:

If you want eggshells prehaps you should run RN cl's after the smoke nerf

But they aren't armed with hammers!

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Ressurect the old 8"/50 gun for Pensacola. That should stop her from being a pen machine at T6.

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As I recall, to try and make Pensacola competitive at tier 7 they buffed it's RoF at one point to the current 15 seconds, and that the plan is to revoke that buff when it drops to 6 because it has the 10 203's. Then again, I've never found the Pensacola to be that accurate as it is.Then again, I've been slow on getting through Aoba, Pens has been a bloody grind. Then again I seem to get down tiered a lot and Iowa's hurt...alot.

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2 hours ago, Sabot_100 said:

Guess it depends on what happens to the Indy when downteired.

Indy isn't.

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I already shot up the chain the Myoko Preliminary to replace the Aoba with the cruiser split and they said they would take it under consideration due to the current Aoba performance. How fast that would happen is anyone's guess.

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Honestly, I think the only things which would need to be done to nerf the T7 Pensacola to T6 are these:

  1. Drop the HP 20%. It's at 34.3k max right now, putting it noticeably above all T6 CAs.  Having it down around 28k would make it middle-of-the-road at T6: better than FR, RN, KM, but worse than IJN and USSR.
  2. Maybe debuff the 203mm/55 upgrade turret rotation from 30 to 35 seconds. That makes it a 22% rather than 33% improvement over the stock guns.
  3. Raise the detection radius from 12.8 to either 13.5 or 14

Maybe the only interesting thing I'd do is remove the Hydro option, and give it 3 DAA consumables as the default (instead of 2).

 

Even without the Hydro/DAA change, it should be the strongest AA cruiser at T6, though no longer the same kind of plane-murderer that the Cleveland was. The HP drop and Detection raise mean that it's more in line with the rest of the T6 cruisers, and reinforce it's squishiness (though the drop in tier effectively gives it's current armor a minor buff). 

 

The result should make the Pensacola what is was: a Glass Cannon.  Heavy-hitting broadside with good gun range, mediocre survivability, and good maneuverability.  More than capable of defending itself from any air attack, but still struggles as a fleet defender (due to mediocre long-range AA). 

 

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Pensacola doesn't need any nerfs when dropped to T6. I have heard all kinds of things that need nerfing and IMO none of it rings true...

  1. Nerf ROF. 15 seconds is more than long enough. Everything else at the tier has a 6-11 second reload (Aoba has 11 sec) so it already has a  much longer reload than any other T6 and in some cases 2X's+ longer. If you make it longer you are starting to reach Graf Spee and Scharnhorst reload times and they have BB guns. 15 seconds is fine. Over a dual with another T6 Cruiser they are getting off many more shots at you as is and even with smaller caliber guns the damage adds up quick due to Pepsi's lack of armor. Make the reload longer and it really puts Pensacola in a hole it may not be able to get out of.
  2. Nerf Turret Rotation. Rotation speed is fine as is at 30 seconds. Only Aoba is longer at 36 seconds so if anything needs to be done buff Aob'a rotation to match Pensacola at 30. 30 seconds is a long time to swing the guns on a Cruiser. The current T6, Cleveland, has a 29 second rotation so Pensacola is slightly worse. All the other T6's, including Graf Spee with it's 283MM BB guns, are in the low to mid 20 second range while the French T6 is just 15 seconds. Nothing to see here.
  3. Nerf AA. Why? Pensacola's AA is not as good as Cleveland was so that is fine. Cleveland has a base AA rating of 53 while Pensacola has a base AA rating of 46. So the AA is already less than the ship it replaces at T6.
  4. Nerf (ie; remove) Hydro. All the T5 Cruisers have hydro so no need to remove it from Pensacola at T6. This is a standard mid tier Cruiser feature.
  5. Nerf HP. I disagree. Pensacola is extremely fragile and has limited offensive weapons, that take forever to reload, to defend itself. It is also a big ship which means it is easier to hit. It needs all of it's HP to be viable. The other T6 Cruisers (excluding Cleveland - more to follow) have HP ranging from 27,000-31,900 which is less but they have multiple weapon options and can fire the main guns faster. Some are smaller and harder to hit as well. The Cleveland actually has better armor and more HP at T6 (13-165MM and 35,200) than Pensacola does at T7 (6-102MM and 34,300). I see no need to nerf the HP of Pensacola when it drops to T6. While the Dallas is the actual replacement for Cleveland as the T6 CL the Pensacola at T6 is a nerf over what we saw at T6 with Cleveland in both armor and HP.  If you look, only Leander of the current standard T6 CL's has worse armor at 6-100MM than the Pensacola has as a T7 CA. Why would it need to be nerfed when dropped to T6? Even the CL's will have more armor (Leander excluded). The Aoba as a T6 CA has 31,900 HP, 6-105MM armor which is better than Pensacola, has 10km torps, faster firing guns of the same caliber, and is almost 3 knots faster so IMO Pensacola's HP are fine.
  6. Nerf Concealment. Again I say why? Before Pensacola's concealment buff it was seriously hampered because it was seen so easily and with it's extremely weak armor it couldn't get away and would be easily deleted. It's current 12.4km range by sea is not out of line with the current T6 Cruisers (Aoba 12.1 / Cleveland 12.9 / Budyonny 13.1 / Nurnberg 12.6 / Leander 10.0 / La Galissonniere 13.3). Aoba which is a T6 CA has better concealment so Pensacola's 12.4 is not out of whack and the ship needs it. Now, if it was something like Leander's 10km range we can talk but as is the 12.4 detection range is fine.
  7. Nerf Maneuverability & Speed.  I have even see people say the rudder shift, turn radius, and speed should be nerfed. Good lord if we keep nerfing the thing it will be a T3. It's B Hull rudder shift of 7 seconds is fine as is the turn radius of 620m. Being a T6 it will most likely lose the Steering Gears Mod 2 ability which takes rudder shift to 5.6 seconds. So 7 seconds and 620m is not out of whack with other T6 Cruisers. It's speed at 32.5 knots is not the fastest or the slowest so it is fine. It needs it's speed and maneuverability to survive!
  8. Nerf AP Damage. Nope. I actually agreed with this at 1st but the more I think about it and the more I looked into it the more I think it isn't needed. Aoba's AP, which is also 203MM, actually has a higher damage value at 4700 so Pensacola's 4600 is not too high and is the ships one real strength. Nerf the AP and it has nothing to defend itself with.
  9. Nerf Gun Range. Again, NO! Pensacola only has a 15.7km range. That is hardly excessive and while it is longer than Aoba's 14.9km range, Aoba also has 10km torps. Only Leander and Aoba have less main gun range at T6 than Pensacola would have. No need to limit it more. Cleveland is only 14.6 but it has 12 guns that fire every 7.5 seconds too. So it throws 96 shells a minute vs just 40 for Pensacola.

I think the issue is people see a T7 being dropped to T6 and immediately jump to the conclusion it will be OP and needs to be nerfed all over the place. Just not the case with Pensacola. This isn't like taking the original Cleveland which was basically a current T8 from all accounts and stuffing it in at T6 which called for a lot of nerfs so it wouldn't be OP. The Pepsi was never a good fit at T7. It is a T5 ship with T6/T7 guns stuck into T7 where it was seriously out of it's league. I have actually come to like the ship after playing it a bit but by no means do I feel it belongs at T7. T6, in it's current state, is a better fit. Guns are strong and decent AA but long reloads, slow turret rotation, no torpedoes, and extremely soft armor means T5 and T6 ships can easily take it out.  

WG should simply put Pensacola in at T6 as is. The loss of SGM2 is going to be enough of a nerf. I know I never feared going up against a Pepsi in any T5 ship, including Cruisers, and the overwhelming majority of people seemed to have felt the same. So why all of a sudden people think it needs nerfs dropping to T6 is beyond me? I am truly surprised. I expected to see finally it will be where it belongs not OMG it will be too OP nerf the snot out of it. I means eriously guys, using OP and Pensacola in the same vein is hilarious.  :Smile_amazed: LOL

JM2C

:Smile_honoring:

Edited by AdmiralThunder
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51 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Pensacola doesn't need any nerfs when dropped to T6. I have heard all kinds of things that need nerfing and IMO none of it rings true...

  1. Nerf ROF. 15 seconds is more than long enough. Everything else at the tier has a 6-11 second reload (Aoba has 11 sec) so it already has a  much longer reload than any other T6 and in some cases 2X's+ longer. If you make it longer you are starting to reach Graf Spee and Scharnhorst reload times and they have BB guns. 15 seconds is fine. Over a dual with another T6 Cruiser they are getting off many more shots at you as is and even with smaller caliber guns the damage adds up quick due to Pepsi's lack of armor. Make the reload longer and it really puts Pensacola in a hole it may not be able to get out of.
  2. Nerf Turret Rotation. Rotation speed is fine as is at 30 seconds. Only Aoba is longer at 36 seconds so if anything needs to be done buff Aob'a rotation to match Pensacola at 30. 30 seconds is a long time to swing the guns on a Cruiser. The current T6, Cleveland, has a 29 second rotation so Pensacola is slightly worse. All the other T6's, including Graf Spee with it's 283MM BB guns, are in the low to mid 20 second range while the French T6 is just 15 seconds. Nothing to see here.
  3. Nerf AA. Why? Pensacola's AA is not as good as Cleveland was so that is fine. Cleveland has a base AA rating of 53 while Pensacola has a base AA rating of 46. So the AA is already less than the ship it replaces at T6.
  4. Nerf (ie; remove) Hydro. All the T5 Cruisers have hydro so no need to remove it from Pensacola at T6. This is a standard mid tier Cruiser feature.
  5. Nerf HP. I disagree. Pensacola is extremely fragile and has limited offensive weapons, that take forever to reload, to defend itself. It is also a big ship which means it is easier to hit. It needs all of it's HP to be viable. The other T6 Cruisers (excluding Cleveland - more to follow) have HP ranging from 27,000-31,900 which is less but they have multiple weapon options and can fire the main guns faster. Some are smaller and harder to hit as well. The Cleveland actually has better armor and more HP at T6 (13-165MM and 35,200) than Pensacola does at T7 (6-102MM and 34,300). I see no need to nerf the HP of Pensacola when it drops to T6. While the Dallas is the actual replacement for Cleveland as the T6 CL the Pensacola at T6 is a nerf over what we saw at T6 with Cleveland in both armor and HP.  If you look, only Leander of the current standard T6 CL's has worse armor at 6-100MM than the Pensacola has as a T7 CA. Why would it need to be nerfed when dropped to T6? Even the CL's will have more armor (Leander excluded). The Aoba as a T6 CA has 31,900 HP, 6-105MM armor which is better than Pensacola, has 10km torps, faster firing guns of the same caliber, and is almost 3 knots faster so IMO Pensacola's HP are fine.
  6. Nerf Concealment. Again I say why? Before Pensacola's concealment buff it was seriously hampered because it was seen so easily and with it's extremely weak armor it couldn't get away and would be easily deleted. It's current 12.4km range by sea is not out of line with the current T6 Cruisers (Aoba 12.1 / Cleveland 12.9 / Budyonny 13.1 / Nurnberg 12.6 / Leander 10.0 / La Galissonniere 13.3). Aoba which is a T6 CA has better concealment so Pensacola's 12.4 is not out of whack and the ship needs it. Now, if it was something like Leander's 10km range we can talk but as is the 12.4 detection range is fine.
  7. Nerf Maneuverability & Speed.  I have even see people say the rudder shift, turn radius, and speed should be nerfed. Good lord if we keep nerfing the thing it will be a T3. It's B Hull rudder shift of 7 seconds is fine as is the turn radius of 620m. Being a T6 it will most likely lose the Steering Gears Mod 2 ability which takes rudder shift to 5.6 seconds. So 7 seconds and 620m is not out of whack with other T6 Cruisers. It's speed at 32.5 knots is not the fastest or the slowest so it is fine. It needs it's speed and maneuverability to survive!
  8. Nerf AP Damage. Nope. I actually agreed with this at 1st but the more I think about it and the more I looked into it the more I think it isn't needed. Aoba's AP, which is also 203MM, actually has a higher damage value at 4700 so Pensacola's 4600 is not too high and is the ships one real strength. Nerf the AP and it has nothing to defend itself with.
  9. Nerf Gun Range. Again, NO! Pensacola only has a 15.7km range. That is hardly excessive and while it is longer than Aoba's 14.9km range, Aoba also has 10km torps. Only Leander and Aoba have less main gun range at T6 than Pensacola would have. No need to limit it more. Cleveland is only 14.6 but it has 12 guns that fire every 7.5 seconds too. So it throws 96 shells a minute vs just 40 for Pensacola.

I think the issue is people see a T7 being dropped to T6 and immediately jump to the conclusion it will be OP and needs to be nerfed all over the place. Just not the case with Pensacola. This isn't like taking the original Cleveland which was basically a current T8 from all accounts and stuffing it in at T6 which called for a lot of nerfs so it wouldn't be OP. The Pepsi was never a good fit at T7. It is a T5 ship with T6/T7 guns stuck into T7 where it was seriously out of it's league. I have actually come to like the ship after playing it a bit but by no means do I feel it belongs at T7. T6, in it's current state, is a better fit. Guns are strong and decent AA but long reloads, slow turret rotation, no torpedoes, and extremely soft armor means T5 and T6 ships can easily take it out.  

WG should simply put Pensacola in at T6 as is. The loss of SGM2 is going to be enough of a nerf. I know I never feared going up against a Pepsi in any T5 ship, including Cruisers, and the overwhelming majority of people seemed to have felt the same. So why all of a sudden people think it needs nerfs dropping to T6 is beyond me? I am truly surprised. I expected to see finally it will be where it belongs not OMG it will be too OP nerf the snot out of it. I means eriously guys, using OP and Pensacola in the same vein is hilarious.  :Smile_amazed: LOL

JM2C

:Smile_honoring:

Nerf unarmored parts to t6 parameters?

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I agree the Aoba has trouble but the solution for me was very simple. You see, the Aoba is really a baby Dunkerque. Bow on spam HE at max range with it.

The torpedoes are occasionally a nice touch but you shouldn't be "planning" on using them.

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They're going to have to nerf HP.  As it stands, the Pensacola has good armor for a T6 cruiser:

  • Worse than the the Cleveland, which is moving (and is considered the Tank of T6)
  • Worse than Budyonny 
  • About the same as Aoba and La Glass
  • Much better than Leander or Nurnberg and likely whatever the USN T6 CL has

You'll note the bottom 3 have under 27k health, while the Budy and Aoba have about 31k. There's no way the Pensacola can keep having 34k.  It has to drop at least to 30k, and probably less.  You'll also note that the Pensacola's citadel armor is quite good for a T6 CA, being only surpassed by the Budy's (it's slightly better than the Aoba's, but is bigger).  The Pensacola's armor scheme looks bad at T7, but it's actually above average at T6.

 

The Pensacola has substantially better DPM than the Aoba, and range to boot. It also has better dispersion and penetration. It's AP can also citadel all other T6 CAs (except Aoba) from angles other than pure broadside, which is something no other T6 CA can do reliably - only the Aoba has a real chance to do so, and it doesn't do it as well. The lack of torpedos isn't a problem, as it's not supposed to be anywhere near enough to use them.

 

The Pensacola is never supposed to be a brawler, like the Cleveland or Aoba (or heck, even the Budy).  It's much more like a heavy-cruiser version of the Nurnberg:  a Glass Cannon with a heavy throw-weight and good maneuverability, but fragile.  It's a true heavy cruiser, which means its prey are other cruisers and battleships, and it's intended to engage with them at standoff ranges (10km+). 

 

As to detectability:  it's substantially larger than the rest of the T6 cruisers, and it's current detection range is too stealthy to reflect that.  The new USN CL should have a nice low detection (probably around 10.5 or so), but the Pensacola is big and obvious. It also doesn't hurt it too much in it's role as a standoff cruiser. A bump to 13.5km from 12.8km would be entirely reasonable.

 

As to the Hydro option:  I'd remove it because it doesn't fit the role of the Pensacola:  it's not a DD hunter. More DAA consumables would make this stand out as the go-to AA cruiser for T6, without being the insane plane-shredder that the Cleveland was.  DAA fits more with the Pensacola's standoff hunter profile, and gives it the ability to help protect BBs, as it has a good medium and long-range AA suite.

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10 minutes ago, EAnybody said:

They're going to have to nerf HP.  As it stands, the Pensacola has good armor for a T6 cruiser:

  • Worse than the the Cleveland, which is moving (and is considered the Tank of T6)
  • Worse than Budyonny 
  • About the same as Aoba and La Glass
  • Much better than Leander or Nurnberg and likely whatever the USN T6 CL has

You'll note the bottom 3 have under 27k health, while the Budy and Aoba have about 31k. There's no way the Pensacola can keep having 34k.  It has to drop at least to 30k, and probably less.  You'll also note that the Pensacola's citadel armor is quite good for a T6 CA, being only surpassed by the Budy's (it's slightly better than the Aoba's, but is bigger).  The Pensacola's armor scheme looks bad at T7, but it's actually above average at T6.

 

The Pensacola has substantially better DPM than the Aoba, and range to boot. It also has better dispersion and penetration. It's AP can also citadel all other T6 CAs (except Aoba) from angles other than pure broadside, which is something no other T6 CA can do reliably - only the Aoba has a real chance to do so, and it doesn't do it as well. The lack of torpedos isn't a problem, as it's not supposed to be anywhere near enough to use them.

 

The Pensacola is never supposed to be a brawler, like the Cleveland or Aoba (or heck, even the Budy).  It's much more like a heavy-cruiser version of the Nurnberg:  a Glass Cannon with a heavy throw-weight and good maneuverability, but fragile.  It's a true heavy cruiser, which means its prey are other cruisers and battleships, and it's intended to engage with them at standoff ranges (10km+). 

 

As to detectability:  it's substantially larger than the rest of the T6 cruisers, and it's current detection range is too stealthy to reflect that.  The new USN CL should have a nice low detection (probably around 10.5 or so), but the Pensacola is big and obvious. It also doesn't hurt it too much in it's role as a standoff cruiser. A bump to 13.5km from 12.8km would be entirely reasonable.

 

As to the Hydro option:  I'd remove it because it doesn't fit the role of the Pensacola:  it's not a DD hunter. More DAA consumables would make this stand out as the go-to AA cruiser for T6, without being the insane plane-shredder that the Cleveland was.  DAA fits more with the Pensacola's standoff hunter profile, and gives it the ability to help protect BBs, as it has a good medium and long-range AA suite.

Standard tech tree T6 Cruiser armor...

  • Budyonny 10-175MM
  • Cleveland 13-165MM
  • Aoba 6-105MM
  • La Galissonniere 6-105MM
  • Pensacola 6-102MM
  • Nurnberg 13-100MM
  • Leander 6-100MM

Pensacola really has little advantage over any T6 CL armor wise and it is in no way above the average. It actually IS average AND remember it is a CA not a CL so it really should have better armor than it does. Frankly it is about the same as all of them except Budyonny and Cleveland; and Cleveland is leaving. Pensacola has zero armor advantage over the other T6's even with the citadel armor belt which is easily penned by DD and CL AP never mind what we all know BB's do to them. It is heavier armor in the citadel belt yes but it doesn't do diddly. LOL I have 1 shot a full health Pensacola with a T5 Konigbserg using AP. That armor belt is not a huge advantage.

Want to lower HP? I disagree this is needed (it is already LESS than Cleveland had at T6 and that had more armor) but if they do it better not go below Aoba as Aoba is the only other T6 CA. Pensacola as a CA should have more HP than a CL. Remember it will continue to be a CA and not a CL. IMO it's HP is fine as is. As you point out the ship is big and thus easily hit and as you also point out it is supposed to take on cruisers and BB's. With the soft armor it takes damage very easy. It needs the HP pool. 

Yes, it will have good firepower for a T6 Cruiser but let me say bluntly - SO WHAT! It isn't like it has 10 BB guns that shoot every 10 seconds here. It will have 10 of the largest caliber Cruiser guns at the tier (standard tech) BUT they will also have the longest reload by far and the range with them is middle of the pack. 

  • Pensacola - 10X203MM / 15 sec RL / 15.7km / 4600 AP / 2800 14% HE / 131m
  • Aoba - 6X203MM / 11 sec RL / 14.9km / 4700 AP / 3300 17% HE / 136m
  • Budyonny - 9X152MM / 8 sec RL / 16.6km / 3300 AP / 2200 12% / 137m
  • Nurnberg - 9X150MM / 6 sec RL / 16.5km / 3900 AP / 1700 8% HE / 137m
  • La Galissonniere - 9X152MM / 9 sec RL / 15.9km / 3300 AP / 2200 12% HE / 143m
  • Leander - 8X152MM / 7.5 sec RL / 13.2km / 3100 AP / 115m

As far as DPM goes. Not sure how the official stat is figured but a simple way is to just take the # of guns and assume all AP or HE shells hit doing max damage each time fired for a full minute. This shows at least the potential DPM using AP and HE and then it is up to the player's aim and RNG. Figuring fire damage is impossible but you can do AP and HE raw damage. So using Pensacola as an example of how I will do it = 10 guns X 4800 AP = 48000 X 4 shots p/ min (15 second RL) = 184000 max AP DPM "potential".

  • Nurnberg - 351000 AP / 153000 HE
  • Budyonny - 222750 AP / 148500 HE
  • Leander - 198400 AP / No HE
  • La Galissonniere - 197802 AP / 131868 HE
  • Pensacola - 184000 AP / 112000 HE 
  • Aoba - 153690 AP / 107910 HE

So actually, as you can see, with their much greater ROF the current T6 CL's, even with smaller MM guns, actually have the potential to do more damage over a minute of shooting all guns than either Pensacola or Aoba. Yes, Pensacola has the big guns with the highest AP damage but it has the slowest reload and a lot can happen in 15 seconds when the enemy shoots you 2X's+. Even the current T6 Cleveland out does the Pensacola in potential DPM (by a lot actually) as long as you can get into range and live...

  • Cleveland(T6) - 12X152MM / 8 sec RL / 14.6km / 3200 AP / 2200 14% HE / 134m
  • Cleveland - 288000 AP / 198000 HE

So yes Pensacola has better DPM potential than Aoba but all the others, even Leander, have more and they are CL's not CA's. And let's not forget that Aoba has a set of 10km torps that do over 16K damage p/ torp. That makes up for a lot in the gun dept. All the CL's have torps too and that makes them even more dangerous. So while Pensacola may have the largest 1 shot potential of the main guns it does not have torps and those main guns take a long time to reload which let's the enemy pound you. It is the BB vs CL thing. 1 shot damage vs multiple shot damage in aggregate. Pensacola might have the 1 shot advantage but the others can melt it pretty darn quick.

Not having torpedoes is a serious disadvantage for the ship vs the others too just as it is for all the USN Cruisers T6+ that do not have them vs all the others that do. I want to be sure that is discussed on it's own. I am sorry but how can you not see this? Even a 2X3 set of 5km torps would be a major asset for it. That is a huge alpha strike weapon it does not have. The guns are good yes but they take forever to reload and they are the ONLY weapon it has to defend itself with. The other T6 Cruisers all have 2X +/- the ROF as outlined above (except Aoba which is 4 sec faster) and have torps. Remember WG's mantra of "balance".  Pensacola needs SOMETHING it can excel at for balance. Also, you can't always stay at range. Sometimes by circumstances, need, or just choice you get close. Torps are huge when in close for a Cruiser. 

I close in vs BB a lot in Pensacola late in games (well assuming I somehow made it that far LOL) and chunk them good (even citadels) with AP but it is hairy and I don't always make it because if I am 1/2 second late in my dodge the BB hits and I go POOF. Having a few torps to add to the mix would be huge. I get it that the ships didn't come with them, and I am not asking they be added, just that the fact it doesn't have them be considered as a weakness that has to be accounted for in other areas it can excel in like main guns. Yes the guns are strong but it is ALL it has and they need to be.

Pensacola's detection (12.4 not 12.8) is not out of line either. It fits in lower middle of the pack with the T6's. Let's compare it again to the only other T6 CA, Aoba, and we see that it has better detection than Pensacola at 12.1. No problem there. Leave it alone.

Pensacola already has the ability to mount Def AA in place of Hydro. No need to change that. Many people find Hydro to be very useful in it. If you want Def AA mount it instead of Hyrdro. Don't advocate for taking away a tool all T5 & T6 Cruisers have from it. Let it be a player's choice.

Pensacola, in it's current form, will be a mediocre to average Cruiser at T6. It has ONE real advantage and that is the guns but the range is on the low side (only Aoba and Leander of the current T6's that will stay there will be worse) so you have to get closer with it than others which makes you vulnerable. It's AA is better than the other T6's but it is not OP as Cleveland's was and will only defend it not provide a blanket to defend others.

I don't mean any disrespect nor to be rude with any of this. I just do not get all the people saying Pensacola needs a nerf when dropped to T6. As currently spec'd it would be a middle of the pack Cruiser. Really good in the hands of a skilled player and a nightmare for a poor player just like all the other T6's. 

  • Cool 3

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I agree with this post wholeheartedly,    I    was and am very nonplussed at the way the T6 Cleveland out classes the T7 Pensacola and to tell the truth the T8 New Orleans as well for how easily the Pensacola and New Orleans are removed from the battlefield (especially when out tiered by 2 ranks as they often are)  Waiting with mixed trepidation and anticipation to see whether the change will be for the good or to the bad  IE  the changes to the USN CV's  so glad I only got the Langley and just researched the Bogue and stopped there unlike many other unhappy players

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Thanks for the great topic and the very valuable discussions. I really enjoyed reading the responses. I love playing the USN cruiser line (except suck at it) and look forward to the change to the tech tree.

again, many thanks captains for the read.

:Smile_great:

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Honestly, I'd like to see Aoba become a a premium T5 cruiser, and get replaced by an 8-gun proto-myoko.  I've seen some pictures of the Proto-myoko floating around, but too lazy to look them up again.

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