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YamatoA150

Alsace N3 as the T9 French BB

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urdRcbp.jpg

 

ST, French Battleship Alsace, Tier IX Stats; in slightly reorganized format.

Spoiler

Hit points - 69000

Plating - 32 mm

Belt - 275 - 350 mm.

 

Main battery - 3x4 380 mm

Firing range - 21.5 km

Reload time 30 s

180 degree turn time - 36 s

Maximum dispersion - 277 m

Sigma count - 2.0.

 

HE damage - 5400

HE initial velocity - 830 m/s

 

AP damage - 11900
AP initial velocity - 830 m/s

 

Maximum speed - 30.4 kt

Turning circle radius - 910 m

Rudder shift time - 23.2 s

 

Surface detectability - 16.7 km

Air detectability - 15.1 km

Detectability after firing main guns in smoke - 15.4 km

Anti-torpedo defense damage reduction - 43%

 

Available consumables:
Slot 1 - Damage Control Party
Slot 2 - Repair Party
Slot 3 - Spotting Aircraft/Catapult Fighter
Slot 4 - Engine Boost

 

All stats are listed without crew and upgrade modifiers.

Now we're down to waiting on the T10. Here's to hoping more details arrives today too, or soon.

Edited by YamatoA150

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Stock stats are frustrating to know!

Interpolating it should have a bit more HP than Iowa and slightly better rudder shift.

Sexy as all that though.

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The main thing I'm interested in is if she'll get some USN-type AA and secondaries similar to Jean Bart or Richelieu on her Hull B. Nevertheless, 12x15" guns at T9 is going to put plenty of sting.

 

I also wonder if she'll have an alternate gun option with the 431mm guns in a more conventional 3x3 setup, trading some shells per volley for more pen potential, similar to FdG and GK having two gun options (or Lion and Conqueror as another example).

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Just now, YamatoA150 said:

The main thing I'm interested in is if she'll get some USN-type AA and secondaries similar to Jean Bart or Richelieu on her Hull B. Nevertheless, 12x15" guns at T9 is going to put plenty of sting.

 

I also wonder if she'll have an alternate gun option with the 431mm guns in a more conventional 3x3 setup, trading some shells per volley for more pen potential, similar to FdG and GK having two gun options (or Lion and Conqueror as another example).

 

With a USN-style refit, I would expect a large amount of 40mm Bofors (as usual). But what is a possibility is the 100mm/45 mounts being replaced with the 100mm/55 Model 1945 twins that Richelieu received after the war. Those would boost the AA power quite a bit as well.

 

I suspect that the 431mm will be kept only at Tier 10.

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4 minutes ago, YamatoA150 said:

The main thing I'm interested in is if she'll get some USN-type AA and secondaries similar to Jean Bart or Richelieu on her Hull B. Nevertheless, 12x15" guns at T9 is going to put plenty of sting.

My concern is that it'll be very target dependent, the USN and German high-tier cruisers can bow-tank 15in guns (but only see them infrequently when Bis/Tirpz/Monarch are in a T10 game.

This ship with 12 x 15in at T9 will see those all the time, and be a little lacking against some, while deathly to the others.

Then again although 2.0 sigma the dispersion is on the German track which isn't amazing.

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Ah, a T9 with 15 inch guns, that only have a 11900 max damage? Mutsu at T6 gets that, if not more(I think, I don't have the game open atm, so I can't check), and that worries me as to the damage potential she actually has. This ship's shells will bounce off every BB from T7 up, many at T6, and they put it at Tier NINE? Honestly, we don't need yet more BB's that can't effectively fight other BB's, we don't need an entire line made of, essentially, the HMS Hood.

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3 minutes ago, mofton said:

My concern is that it'll be very target dependent, the USN and German high-tier cruisers can bow-tank 15in guns (but only see them infrequently when Bis/Tirpz/Monarch are in a T10 game.

This ship with 12 x 15in at T9 will see those all the time, and be a little lacking against some, while deathly to the others.

Then again although 2.0 sigma the dispersion is on the German track which isn't amazing.

15" guns at T9 will find AP kinda lacking so......it'll be another HE throwing ship....yawn

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Although the second-best 15" gun in-game, at tier IX the penetrations going to start feeling lacking. Still, it can citadel any other broadside BB inside 20 km, although naturally angling will hurt this.

 

It should have no need to HE spam at all, although given the bad lessons the crappy 340mm gun will teach people, she might just be used to HE spam...

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Just now, ValkyrWarframe said:

Engine boost on a battleship :D

Which already has a nice speed lol. I think they will be quite competitive and enjoyable ships.

But I guess some people might get upset at the thought of having engine boost given to a battleship.

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2 minutes ago, Th3Diabolik1 said:

Ah, a T9 with 15 inch guns, that only have a 11900 max damage? Mutsu at T6 gets that, if not more(I think, I don't have the game open atm, so I can't check), and that worries me as to the damage potential she actually has. This ship's shells will bounce off every BB from T7 up, many at T6, and they put it at Tier NINE? Honestly, we don't need yet more BB's that can't effectively fight other BB's, we don't need an entire line made of, essentially, the HMS Hood.

 

You're severely underestimating the penetrative power of these guns.

 

This thing out-penetrates Mutsu's guns by a massive margin, as in, her penetration exceeds that of Mutus's guns by well over 5 inches once you get past 10 km. The French 380/45 is capable of penetrating over 16" (406mm) of armor at 20 km. It takes about 425-435mm to penetrate a broadsiding Montana or Yamato... So that's probably 18.5-19 km for these guns, considering the penetration at 15 km is 480mm (18.9").

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15 minutes ago, Th3Diabolik1 said:

Ah, a T9 with 15 inch guns, that only have a 11900 max damage? Mutsu at T6 gets that, if not more(I think, I don't have the game open atm, so I can't check), and that worries me as to the damage potential she actually has. This ship's shells will bounce off every BB from T7 up, many at T6, and they put it at Tier NINE? Honestly, we don't need yet more BB's that can't effectively fight other BB's, we don't need an entire line made of, essentially, the HMS Hood.

Not really.  The 25mm plating of the T6 and T7 BBs is still overmatched by 380mm AP.

Edited by landcollector
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12 minutes ago, mofton said:

My concern is that it'll be very target dependent, the USN and German high-tier cruisers can bow-tank 15in guns (but only see them infrequently when Bis/Tirpz/Monarch are in a T10 game.

This ship with 12 x 15in at T9 will see those all the time, and be a little lacking against some, while deathly to the others.

Then again although 2.0 sigma the dispersion is on the German track which isn't amazing.

 

That's why I was wondering if WG will add in a conventional 3x3 431mm setup as an alternate option. Sure, it'll be situational, but it satisfies both the historical crowd and the game play crowd, giving the ship a bit more punch vs CAs and some BBs, but at the cost of shells per volley, which is also a considerable advantage both from a bow-on/sharply angled aspect.

 

The German dispersion does counterbalance the shell volley count some, but a 2.0 sigma means slightly less derpy spread in the center, compared to German BBs. But this also permits another balancing difference between the 380mm and the 431mm; assuming it got both, the 431mm could see lower dispersion but same sigma, bringing it on the USN accuracy track.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Alsace ends up getting both options. I suspect the 3x4 380mm would be the more heavily played, but I could see the 3x3 431mm working out just as well for those who want more punch on angled CAs and battleships, where 15" shells would otherwise bounce or only do minor damage.

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Looking at the picture (I assume A-hull), it appears the secondary battery is a 12x2 battery of 100mm/55's, and 3x3 152mm/55's.

*Thos actually might be /45's, it would make more sense given the tier.

 

The there's at lest four, possibly five 37/70 mounts per side, for a total of 8-10x2 37mm/70's, followed by a light brushing of 20 or 25mm cannons.

 

So, my guess for AA is;

 

3x3 152/55: 24.9 dps @ 5.0 km

12x2 100/55: 177.6 dps @ 5.0 km

12x2 100/45L 81.6 dps @ 5.0 km

8x2 37/70: 96.8 dps @ 3.5 km

 

I'm not sure what the mount by the base of the aft-most 152mm mount is...

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7 minutes ago, Phoenix_jz said:

Looking at the picture (I assume A-hull), it appears the secondary battery is a 12x2 battery of 100mm/55's, and 3x3 152mm/55's.

*Thos actually might be /45's, it would make more sense given the tier.

 

The there's at lest four, possibly five 37/70 mounts per side, for a total of 8-10x2 37mm/70's, followed by a light brushing of 20 or 25mm cannons.

 

So, my guess for AA is;

 

3x3 152/55: 16.6 dps @ 5.0 km

12x2 100/55: 177.6 dps @ 5.0 km

12x2 100/45L 81.6 dps @ 5.0 km

8x2 37/70: 96.8 dps @ 3.5 km

 

I'm not sure what the mount by the base of the aft-most 152mm mount is...

Minor correction:

The 152mm DPS would be 24.9, given the 8.3 per turret.

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That shell velocity also, I wonder if it will maintain its velocity over range like the Dunky does. 12 guns with 2.0 sigma with good velocity would mean bad things for cruisers, DDs and smoke dwellers

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16 minutes ago, landcollector said:

Minor correction:

The 152mm DPS would be 24.9, given the 8.3 per turret.

 

Thanks for the catch, I don't know why I did x2 rather than x3 XD

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44 minutes ago, Phoenix_jz said:

 

You're severely underestimating the penetrative power of these guns.

 

This thing out-penetrates Mutsu's guns by a massive margin, as in, her penetration exceeds that of Mutus's guns by well over 5 inches once you get past 10 km. The French 380/45 is capable of penetrating over 16" (406mm) of armor at 20 km. It takes about 425-435mm to penetrate a broadsiding Montana or Yamato... So that's probably 18.5-19 km for these guns, considering the penetration at 15 km is 480mm (18.9").

 

To put this into perspective NC/Alabama by WG'ing own Amada video's have 479mm @ 15km.

 

21 minutes ago, Psycodiver said:

That shell velocity also, I wonder if it will maintain its velocity over range like the Dunky does. 12 guns with 2.0 sigma with good velocity would mean bad things for cruisers, DDs and smoke dwellers

 

Oh yes, definitely, how do you think their so high pen despite not being SHS.

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Comparing her to Tier IX Iowa:

Iowa / Alsace

HP: 79k / 69k - 10k difference, big deal.

 

Armor

Iowa: 32mm, belt 58mm-216mm - Waterline citadel, the 58mm is way below water and the closest to the surface is 297mm.

Alsace: 32mm, belt 275-350mm - My bet it's a conventional height citadel.

 

Main Battery

Iowa:

3x3 406mm, 23.3km range, max dispersion 293m, Sigma 1.8

Reload time 30 seconds, 180 degree turn time 45 seconds

HE 5700, 762m/s

AP 13.5k dmg, 820m/s

Alsace:

3x4 380mm, 21.5km range, max dispersion 277m, Sigma 2.0

Reload time 30 seconds, 180 degree turn time 36 seconds

HE 5400 dmg, 830m/s

AP 11.9k dmg, 830m/s

- Caveat:  USN Tier IX+ BBs can slot APRM2 to improve dispersion by 11%.  This goes into Slot 3, the only BB line in the game that can do that as everyone else has to go for 7% ASM1 in Slot 2, which competes with AAGM2, SBM2, etc.  USN BBs at Tier IX+ can have good dispersion (with APRM2) while having terrific AA capability by slotting AAGM2, while other BB lines have to make a choice between ASM1, AAGM2, SBM2.  Iowa with APRM2 has a dispersion of 261m.

 

Handling

Iowa:  33kts, turning circle radius920m, rudder shift time 19.5 seconds

Alsace:  30.4kts, turning circle radius 910m, rudder shift time 23.2 seconds

 

Concealment:

Iowa:  16.2km, 14.2km, 15.6km when firing from smoke with main battery

Alsace:  16.7km, 15.1km, 15.4km when firing from smoke with main battery

 

TDS

Iowa:  27%

Alsace54%

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3 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

Main Battery

Iowa:

3x3 406mm, 23.3km range, max dispersion 293m, Sigma 1.8

 

Wait wasn't the sigma for Iowa 1.9 for subtle effect?

 

Also I'm rather miffed about Alsace getting 2.0 sigma but not Richelieu unless that changes.

Edited by admiral_noone

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Compared to Iowa, it's going to be close.  Iowa will have harder hitting guns, Alsace will need more hits per salvo to come even.  I don't think French BBs will  have the HE perks the RN ones did, so the lower caliber guns will be an issue.  However, as with all Non-USN BBs, you have to make a big choice at Slot 2:

Slot 2

ASM1 - main battery accuracy buff of 7%

AAGM2 - to improve the likely strong AA suite of Alsace

SBM2 - No word on secondaries, but this is an option in this slot.

 

Compare this to Iowa Slot 2

AAGM2 - to improve Iowa's strong AA suite

SBM2 - It's an option in this slot.

But in Slot 3, USN BBs from Tier IX+ access APRM2 to buff main battery dispersion by 11%

 

Iowa can have accurate main battery with terrific AA due to how USN BB slot options work.  Alsace?  It can, but it also means her AA capability will never truly be realized.  Or Alsace may forgo ASM1 and adopt AAGM2 and have terrific AA, but not improve it's main battery dispersion like Iowa users can.  This is the same option conundrum IJN, German, RN BB line players make.

 

Iowa can make the cake and eat it also.  Thanks to how the Upgrade Slots work specifically, uniquely for USN BBs at Tier IX+.

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6 minutes ago, admiral_noone said:

Wait wasn't the sigma for Iowa 1.9 for subtle effect?

 

Also I'm rather miffed about Alsace getting 2.0 sigma but not Richelieu unless that changes.

 

Do keep in mind, Richelieu is Tier VIII.  Alsace is sporting 15" guns in Tier IX, where the standard of BB main battery calibers for Tier IX-X is 406mm / 16" at the very least.  Alsace's guns need every bit of accuracy it can because they are weak.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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now, that leaves the T10

947437AUFranceSuperAlsaceClass.png.995da

*hopes its this beast*

Edited by tcbaker777

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8 minutes ago, tcbaker777 said:

now, that leaves the T10

947437AUFranceSuperAlsaceClass.png.995da

*hopes its this beast*

 

Leaks suggest another 3x4 layout with bigger guns of some kid, but i would like the 4x4 15" as well.

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