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DeadMeat_015

Anti-CV Strategies

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I hate CVs. I don't really hate CVs, I game "hate" CVs. CVs belong in this game, but are not implemented to my liking. Whenever I take out my favorite DD the T5 Fujin, if there is more than 3000 on the server, every game is a 4 CV match (aint just T5 CVs either) I dislike this very much, as the only armor a DD has is stealth. So I blow off steam by playing the Atlanta, which makes me even madder because it is a spec'd out AA ship and 19pt Capt, which causes CVs to become scarce as MM protects them to a large degree from this setup if you play a lot solo like I do. ( i am seeing this aslo with the Kidd spec'd out this way solo) 

 

With some help from the folks over at the Community Discord this is what I understand so far. (feel free to dispute)

1. If I want a CV in a match I need to Div with a CV

2. If I div with a T6 CV in my Atlanta, and we run into another div doing same thing the CVs could get stuck in a T9 match. Otherwise you get the CV MM.

3. Not many CVs like AS because there is much more XP in damage than in shooting down airplanes

4. Ranger is best AS carrier

 

 

What is the best way to specifically target those nasty little aeroplanes, in ya'll opinion? Solo or Div advice welcome.

What T4-T6 ships with DF would be best used in anti-air div (assuming one slot is a CV)?

 

 

 

 

Edited by DeadMeat_015

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Spec AFT + BFT + Adrenaline Rush on all your major BBs, turn into torps and stay near friendly cruisers ... why is this so hard for people to understand?

If you are playing DD, use smoke to hide or spec AA on all the major AA DDs to knock out any planes pursuing you. If you are an IJN DD you stay near friendly ships to keep him from perma spotting you for his team.

Edited by Ulthwey
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Play American cruisers.  All but immune to planes.  If the CV player is dumb enough to send them your way, then just nom nom nom...

 

Don't have to worry about planes when playing US CLs and CAs.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Ulthwey said:

Spec AFT + BFT + Adrenaline Rush on all your major BBs, turn into torps and stay near friendly cruisers ... why is this so hard for people to understand?

 

5 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

Play American cruisers.  All but immune to planes.  If the CV player is dumb enough to send them your way, then just nom nom nom...

 

Don't have to worry about planes when playing US CLs and CAs.

 

 

No you do not understand, I know how to mitigate CV harassment/damage with ships that can do it, I am looking for how to counter CVs aggressively. I want to hunt them and make it hard for them. Its a legitimate game strategy. Besides none of these work for the 2 rated fujin AA

Edited by DeadMeat_015

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11 minutes ago, DeadMeat_015 said:

 

No you do not understand I know how to mitigate  CV harassment, I am looking for how to counter CVs aggressively. I want to hunt them and make it hard for them. Its a legitimate game strategy

 

You cant hurt them unless you are playing a CV yourself, or somehow manage to snipe him. Most CV players arent stupid anymore, this isnt closed Beta, good CV players will NEVER bring their planes close to something like a Cleveland, Atlanta or a Des Moines. They will also probably expect ships like Kidd, Udaloy and Grozovoy to be loaded with AA and defensive fire. 

 

You can however make his life miserable by being unexpected. For example, from his perspective he is likely not expecting yours Sims or Benson to have defensive fire. He is likely not expecting your Edinburg or Neptune to have manual AA + AFT. These little things can be a nasty little surprise for him when he decides to chose you as a target. This gives you a chance to shoot down a good number of planes or simply screw up his drop. However these are one-time surprises that you may throw at him, after that he will either not bother with you for the rest of the match or bring his whole air group just to murder you if theres nothing else left on the field.

 

One thing I can say for certain is CV "hunting" does NOT work, if you deliberately run around looking for him you'll just be f*cking over your team by not participating in the match.

Edited by Ulthwey
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25 minutes ago, Ulthwey said:

 

You cant hurt them unless you are playing a CV yourself, or somehow manage to snipe him. Most CV players arent stupid anymore, this isnt closed Beta, good CV players will NEVER bring their planes close to something like a Cleveland, Atlanta or a Des Moines. They will also probably expect ships like Kidd, Udaloy and Grozovoy to be loaded with AA and defensive fire. 

 

You can however make his life miserable by being unexpected. For example, from his perspective he is likely not expecting yours Sims or Benson to have defensive fire. He is likely not expecting your Edinburg or Neptune to have manual AA + AFT. These little things can be a nasty little surprise for him when he decides to chose you as a target. This gives you a chance to shoot down a good number of planes or simply screw up his drop. However these are one-time surprises that you may throw at him, after that he will either not bother with you for the rest of the match or bring his whole air group just to murder you if theres nothing else left on the field.

 

One thing I can say for certain is CV "hunting" does NOT work, if you deliberately run around looking for him you'll just be f*cking over your team by not participating in the match.

I understand it is difficult to get a CV to screw up against my Atlanta. Generally a good game solo is to surprise the first wave or get a fighter squadron or two. I keep my AA off till spotted and from 5.5k to 7.2k (if they last that long) i get to shoot them. Then that side of the map is now avoided by the good CV player.(Edit) I count this as a win for my team) Sometimes I can go dark and transition to another side or cap and surprise them a second time. I have over 1500 games in the Atlanta and sometimes I am very successful when MM allows me to have a CV match. Look at my Atlanta stats I am a team player. I look at it like counter-sniping in FPS games cause you "game"hate snipers. I avg generally 20-30 planes a game when I can get a damn CV game solo, and 2nd all time in  Atlanta with 84 aeroplanes.

I am looking for help in being a counter CV player as a game within a game. This is not a anti-CV rant. (well its a minor anti-4 CV rant)

 

  

Edited by DeadMeat_015

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Best method: when you see a CV in queue, exit the queue immediately. This works much better at high tiers than low.

 

There is no way to make things hard for a CV, because WG has designed them to be invincible OP off-map guided missile cruisers whose purpose is to inflict extra cancer damage to keep games short. Their actual implementation falls short of that ideal, but that is the intent. Thus, there is no way you can harm them, unless they are dumb enough to drive under your guns, or you mount long range mods on your BB specifically to shoot at them. WG has deliberately designed them to be out of the reach of other ships. Sucks for gameplay, but the gameplay experience is not a priority for WG. 

 

Many DD players hunt them but that is a noob move. You are more effective capping and torping than if you are out of the game for 10 minutes on a fruitless CV hunt.

Your other solutions are second-best: use valuable modules and captain points on generally useless AA spec'ing -- useless because as you climb the tiers, there are fewer and fewer CVs. This suggests that the best way of avoiding the cancer boats is to climb as fast as possible out of T6. 

There are things you can do to maximize your effect. One is to push your own CV driver to get planes out over the caps. Another is that when you are AA spec'd move so you can kill the Red CV's planes and help your own CV. 

 

Many players have called for a No CV mode, which would solve all problems. But WG wants sky cancer in the game, to put ships back in the queue as quickly as possible...

So, like real cancer, you will just have to put up with the possibility of sky cancer.

Edited by Taichunger

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1 minute ago, Taichunger said:

Best method: when you see a CV in queue, exit the queue immediately. This works much better at high tiers than low.

 

 

I do not wish to exit the que, I wish to make the CV player work for it, like I have to work for it when when in my fujin with four CVs. 

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Best defense against a CV after intercepting them ahead of time with fighters is massed AA. If you wander off alone and make yourself an easy target that's your fault.

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Troll them with Gneis full AA build.  I even run the accuracy mod for main batteries, doesn't matter still murders every plane that enters the bubble.

Div with a Saipan or Kaga and another AA boat like Atlanta then split from your Atlanta cause the CV will avoid him, make yourself look juicy and boom ez planes.  Really good CV players will know whats up first wave they lose but most wont figure it out at first.

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2 hours ago, Kuckoo said:

Play American cruisers.  All but immune to planes.  If the CV player is dumb enough to send them your way, then just nom nom nom...

 

Don't have to worry about planes when playing US CLs and CAs.

 

 

 

Not quite.  Of all the USN Cruisers in the game, these are the only ones with great AA that make CVs have different thoughts:

Tier VI Cleveland, Tier VII Premium Atlanta, Tier IX Baltimore, Tier X Des Moines.

Tier V and below, their AA sucks like everyone else's.

Tier VII Pensacola, Indianapolis, Tier VIII New Orleans have good short range AA, i.e. "Too Late AA" where the bombers get in close enough to drop most of their ordnance.  The losses only really mount AFTER the CV has dropped their ordnance.  For the Cruiser, that's too d*mn late.  Very poor especially in defending teammates since their AA range is short and too much of the DPS is there as well.  NOLA's AA is even shorter range than the Tier VIII German Cruisers.

 

Other good AA Cruiser options, because USN "National Flavor is AA" is straight up bulls--t:

RN CL

Tier VII Belfast actually has great AA capability but is never specced for it.  I've gotten Clear Sky with her before :Smile_teethhappy:

Tier IX Neptune

Tier X Minotaur

RN CLs need quite a bit of reinforcement if you want "Sky Clearing" AA capability against same tier or higher tier aircraft.  BFT+AFT+AAGM2 may be enough for lower tier trash planes but against same or higher tier planes, it will not be.  This is exemplified by Minotaur.  AFT+BFT+AAGM2 she can make Tier VIII CVs cry.  But against the faster, tougher planes of Tier IX-X CVs, it's not enough and the CV can plow through that AA.  RN CLs need to get a lot more serious if they want "Sky Clearing" AA with MFCAA trait, maybe even AAGM3 to go with AAGM2.  The thing with RN CLs is that they do not have Defensive Fire.  AA Cruisers like DM, Hindenburg, Moskva, Henri IV with good AA and Defensive Fire cause great losses if that consumable is active.  RN CLs don't have that same capability despite having some high AA DPS and range on paper.  It can get there but it needs heavy investment.

 

German CA

Tier VIII Adm.Hipper / Prinz Eugen - Very dangerous, all around AA to a CV, actually more lethal than same tier New Orleans that focuses on "Too late AA" while the Germans rip planes apart at range.  Underrated AA for this tier.

Tier IX Roon

Tier X Hindenburg

 

RU Cruisers
Tier IX Dmitri Donskoi - The start of more reliable RU AA, lethal range.

Tier X Moskva

 

French CA

Tier IX Saint-Louis - French Cruiser AA is pretty meh prior to her, but from S-L on, they get lethal AA if you reinforce it.

Tier X Henri IV

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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2 hours ago, DeadMeat_015 said:

 

No you do not understand, I know how to mitigate CV harassment/damage with ships that can do it, I am looking for how to counter CVs aggressively. I want to hunt them and make it hard for them. Its a legitimate game strategy. Besides none of these work for the 2 rated fujin AA

 

But having good AA "is" the way to make it hard on CVs.  As others have noted, hunting CVs (in general) is usually counter-productive to the win.  Ships chasing/hunting a CV are often more effective elsewhere.  The best CV chase/hunt occurs as an extension of some other strategy.  Say you're pushing a flank and a CV is detected.  It could then become a legit target as an outcome of the push.  But if you start a match thinking..."I'm going to go hunt CVs", then you're more likely being less effective than you could otherwise be doing something else.

Edited by Soshi_Sone

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BBs:  You are the primary meal of a CV.  Sail alone at your peril.

 

AA Cruisers:  If possible, find cover as close to the caps that your DDs are traveling to at the start of the match.  Get there and provide AA for the DDs.  Early match, CVs always go looking for DDs at the caps because they're the easier targets to go for.  The BBs are too far back with the Cruisers early on.  But DDs?  They go far forward and often with no AA protection.  For the AA Cruiser, try to get a masked approach to that cover, don't get spotted early as you try to get there to only get blasted by BB AP.  Be wary about LOS to opposing ships as you approach cover.  Be wary about early detection by air due to the CV looking for DDs in the cap.  You have to have a good estimate in how fast you can safely get to cover to provide that AA.  You getting caught in the open to get deleted isn't the goal.

 

Lastly, if you are an AA Cruiser in a CV match... Don't freaking die early.  Nothing like seeing a Cleveland in a 2 CV per team match be the first ship to get spotted and get deleted by the 3 BBs shooting at it.  GG, you idiot.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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CV’s aren’t that common; stay with ships with good AA (Cruisers) or if you an American BB spec your AA

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33 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

BBs:  You are the primary meal of a CV.  Sail alone at your peril.

 

AA Cruisers:  If possible, find cover as close to the caps that your DDs are traveling to at the start of the match.  Get there and provide AA for the DDs.  Early match, CVs always go looking for DDs at the caps because they're the easier targets to go for.  The BBs are too far back with the Cruisers early on.  But DDs?  They go far forward and often with no AA protection.  For the AA Cruiser, try to get a masked approach to that cover, don't get spotted early as you try to get there to only get blasted by BB AP.  Be wary about LOS to opposing ships as you approach cover.  Be wary about early detection by air due to the CV looking for DDs in the cap.  You have to have a good estimate in how fast you can safely get to cover to provide that AA.  You getting caught in the open to get deleted isn't the goal.

Using "hunt" CVs was a mistake. I meant it metaphorically, I meant how do I do a better job rendering the enemy CV ineffective while maintaining a team oriented approach. again this thread was meant for tactics and strategies sorry about that.

Thanks for the ship write up further up Haze

Yes this is what I am looking for, again this thread was meant for tactics and strategies :). I do this when I can, as long as I can get behind an island quickly as you say or the DD is kind enough (and paying attn) to smoke me. I will pop DF from time to time to ensure destruction of squadron, but sometimes the DB/TB are close enough to to make me hate myself after DF gone and get rushed. Even a full AA atlanta cant stop a T7-9 alpha strike without it. I will sometimes stay dark hoping CV will think I am somewhere else if his spotting isn't having an adverse effect on the DD i.e. getting focused.

Sometimes I sit in middle of map and bounce back and forth (when possible mostly mid to late game)looking for opportunities to ambush Aircraft/DD/CLs. Some times CV will use me to stage their planes. I have no problem with this although it can give me away to a sharp operator on other side. 

Sometimes I will try to place my ship in our CV stream and pick off fighters following his returning aircraft. Or the CV will do that automatically and I will always help out 

 

I think individual strategies I most likely can't do much more than I already am, but I was hoping for more ideas for solo. It looks like I am going to have to div if I want to pursue this further. So, maybe a AS CV and 2 Atlanta each with a third of the map. Or a CV/Atlanta and the worst AA ship for that tier as bait?  

Edited by DeadMeat_015

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3 minutes ago, Lionel92 said:

CV’s aren’t that common; stay with ships with good AA (Cruisers) or if you an American BB spec your AA

CV's are common, but if you spec out AA in good AA ships esp with DF MM will keep CVs away from you for the most part when playing solo. Switch from DF to hydro and IFHE Capt and I see plenty of CVs in matches

Edited by DeadMeat_015

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40 minutes ago, DeadMeat_015 said:

CV's are common, but if you spec out AA in good AA ships esp with DF MM will keep CVs away from you for the most part when playing solo. Switch from DF to hydro and IFHE Capt and I see plenty of CVs in matches

They aren’t that common in the higher tier 9-10 games

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1 hour ago, Lionel92 said:

They aren’t that common in the higher tier 9-10 games

Perhaps I wasn't as clear I could have been and I apologize for that, In the Atlanta, as a solo player, the MM you get when you are full AA (82 rating/7.2km range) and a 19pt Capt with Manuel AA vs the hydro/IFHE build (64 AA rating/6.0km) (i like AFT both builds) are completely different. They are given an MM that is gentler to them  

You are right that T9 and T10 is less populated with CVs, but thats not where CVs bug me. :) T5-7 especially the 4 CV matches

Edited by DeadMeat_015

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6 hours ago, DeadMeat_015 said:

I hate CVs. I don't really hate CVs, I game "hate" CVs. CVs belong in this game, but are not implemented to my liking. Whenever I take out my favorite DD the T5 Fujin, if there is more than 3000 on the server, every game is a 4 CV match (aint just T5 CVs either) I dislike this very much, as the only armor a DD has is stealth. So I blow off steam by playing the Atlanta, which makes me even madder because it is a spec'd out AA ship and 19pt Capt, which causes CVs to become scarce as MM protects them to a large degree from this setup if you play a lot solo like I do. ( i am seeing this aslo with the Kidd spec'd out this way solo) 

 

With some help from the folks over at the Community Discord this is what I understand so far. (feel free to dispute)

1. If I want a CV in a match I need to Div with a CV

2. If I div with a T6 CV in my Atlanta, and we run into another div doing same thing the CVs could get stuck in a T9 match. Otherwise you get the CV MM.

3. Not many CVs like AS because there is much more XP in damage than in shooting down airplanes

4. Ranger is best AS carrier

 

 

What is the best way to specifically target those nasty little aeroplanes, in ya'll opinion? Solo or Div advice welcome.

What T4-T6 ships with DF would be best used in anti-air div (assuming one slot is a CV)?

  1. It is possible to pop in and out of queue to test if there's 2 CV's in the MM at a particular range.  I hate CV's with a passion when I'm in my Fujin because you get 20 minutes of your life sucked away if you're perma-spotted.
  2. Yea, no way around this but T7 CV MM is the same as the Atlanta's.
  3. CV's don't like AS because shutting down the enemy carrier and DD's is less impactful on the match than killing and it's very boring.  In fact I recall it being too easy for AS CV's to get #1 during ranked by just shooting down planes on the enemy team.
  4. Ranger is going to lose against a good Saipan.  Saipan doesn't lose any planes when strafing out of fighter lock.

Cleveland is fairly respectable in the AA department, but I think Atlanta's still your best bet.

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1. Duh
2. Thats not true, but the MM sometimes sucks... a lot... i play a lot with enterprise/saipan in div and dont get only high tier battles.
3. Thats not true too, and AS sucks, a good cv captain get over this easy and kill your team.
4. Ranger/lex/essex is a sh**.

In low tiers you can get a lot cvs (you say your favorite dd is a T5) and a lot bad cvs because people still learning to play, AA from cruisers is not that OP, etc...

For that tier the best "anti-air" is the cleveland.

 

The best anti-cv strategie in general is play with AA cruisers/dds (atlanta, cleveland. des moines, minotaur, gearing) even some bbs with AA build (sharnhorst, iowa/missouri, montana)... or just play in a cv too :P !

Make a division for that, some dd/cl for AA/suport and one cv, and one BB for firepower.


Of course a good cv dont gonna fly over you in the early game, you dont gonna kill a lot planes, but, at least he dont gonna focus you util the end of the game.

But if is a good cv captain he gonna kill you anyway, you know, nothing make any ship in this game 100% invunerable.

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8 minutes ago, WhimsicalPacifist said:

CV's don't like AS because shutting down the enemy carrier and DD's is less impactful on the match than killing and it's very boring.  In fact I recall it being too easy for AS CV's to get #1 during ranked by just shooting down planes on the enemy team.

 

Is not that easy because you depend A LOT from your team, running AS means you lose you main firepower, its sucks depend that much from your team.

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3 hours ago, DeadMeat_015 said:

Using "hunt" CVs was a mistake. I meant it metaphorically, I meant how do I do a better job rendering the enemy CV ineffective while maintaining a team oriented approach. again this thread was meant for tactics and strategies sorry about that.

 

You don't. Your one ship in one small part of the map, the CV can allways just avoid you. It takes a team effort from multiple players in multiple parts of the map with the appropriate builds to really leave a CV helpless.

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