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dmckay

Issue with map Straits

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Often with that map I will see, usually a DD, head for the middle cap area of the 3 as soon as general quarters is called out leaving us short handed on our side of that map. Then I will often see that DD just take up a position and hide behind an island and doing nothing (thinking to ambush I do reckon) to help either side of our team who are defending green cap or attacking red cap. This makes me mad.  Should it?  Is this a good tactic for a DD on Straits? I hate being left short handed....especially when defending the green cap. DDs are important to win games but I see many times 1 will just peel off on this map......looking for greener pastures?  You folks understand what I am saying here? Am I missing something? Should this upset me? :Smile_sad:

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lol take a number and join the Complaints line.

My least favourite map. In a BB you feel like an orca at Seaworld.

Sure enough almost every battle some fecktard decides "hey I have a unique plan! I'll bail on my half team down here and head to the other side and won't even announce it!"

This might be an interesting random battle map with north and south spawns.

 

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I dislike that tactic almost as much as the idiots that leave one side and bee-line early to join the other side, leaving the rest of us to do the job with half-strength.

 

Bad tactics. Bad map awareness.

 

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I smile when Red team sends a destroyer or cruiser to B

then of course I mutter curses as our carrier imitates an island and comes under attack from the destroyer that moved over our flank.

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I domination the side that gets the B cap first wins... if they are smart enough to hold it.

 

One of my favorite maps.  In BBs.

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20 minutes ago, Stauffenberg44 said:

lol take a number and join the Complaints line.

My least favourite map. In a BB you feel like an orca at Seaworld.

Sure enough almost every battle some fecktard decides "hey I have a unique plan! I'll bail on my half team down here and head to the other side and won't even announce it!"

This might be an interesting random battle map with north and south spawns.

 

The Strait map itself is pretty much OK.  The problem I have with it is the spawn and cap locations.  IMO, they promote extremely stupid play.

What I'd like to see is the following changes to the Strait map.

 

1. Domination version: Use the Ranked Battles version of Strait, with the spawns in the NE and SW.  This would give each teams' ships the option of defending their side (N or S) of the map, or charging directly up/down the channel right next to their spawn to try to engage the enemy on their side of the map.  Plus the middle cap would be a serious battleground.

2. Standard version.  Similar to the above Domination version, but without the center cap, and with Standard mode rules applying.

3. Epicenter mode (or possibly, single cap Encounter mode): have the Epi rings centered on the middle cap area, with the spawns the same (i.e. NE and SW). It might be that the Epi rings would need to be rather small so that they don't extend into the eastern channel, because that would seem to give the NE spawning team a significant advantage here.  It might be better if it was a single cap Encounter mode, with the single cap where the B cap is.

 

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That isn't a problem with the map but a problem with the players.

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4 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

That isn't a problem with the map but a problem with the players.

Yes, but if the problem is player behavior, you can change that by changing things like cap and spawn locations, because more often than not, from my experience, those behaviors are driven by cap and spawn locations.  Change the cap and spawn locations, and player behaviors will change to adapt to those changes.

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36 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

 

This Tactic works, Being left to take up slack is not easy but Caps win the game.

Seems to me you are more likely to win with full strength teams at both ends of that map. One or the other of your guys or both wins their cap then heads for middle cap B. I just thinking of the law of averages here,,,,whatever that is. Just from a lotta experience playing that map I see more loses than wins when a ship bails on you and heads for B. I do not think this is my imagination. 

Edited by dmckay

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Just now, Crucis said:

Yes, but if the problem is player behavior, you can change that by changing things like cap and spawn locations, because more often than not, from my experience, those behaviors are driven by cap and spawn locations.  Change the cap and spawn locations, and player behaviors will change to adapt to those changes.

The more you try to control player behavior the more likely the tactics will become static. While I will want to slap some players some times I want the opportunity to use different tactics.

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The best tactic on this map is to stick with your team (north/south) and win the flank in front of you and NOT cross over.

If you leave your flank and cross 1)that flank is weakened and is probably lost if enemies stick together 2)you need to sail broadside to enemy positions to get to the B cap or other side and 3)if you sail behind the bigger islands to cross sides you are also taking your guns out of the fight for a long time(you might not get to other side before that flank won or lost) and will still lose the flank you just left.

Stick with your team at spawn and win the cap/flank in front of you.

...

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger

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12 minutes ago, Dr_Powderfinger said:

The best tactic on this map is to stick with your team (north/south) and win the flank in front of you and NOT cross over.

If you leave your flank and cross 1)that flank is weakened and is probably lost if enemies stick together 2)you need to sail broadside to enemy positions to get to the B cap or other side and 3)if you sail behind the bigger islands to cross sides you are also taking your guns out of the fight for a long time(you might not get to other side before that flank won or lost) and will still lose the flank you just left.

Stick with your team at spawn and win the cap/flank in front of you.

...

You are absolutely Correct in a game with cooperation of all involved and teamwork. This is WG / WoWs. 

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1 hour ago, Dr_Powderfinger said:

The best tactic on this map is to stick with your team (north/south) and win the flank in front of you and NOT cross over.

If you leave your flank and cross 1)that flank is weakened and is probably lost if enemies stick together 2)you need to sail broadside to enemy positions to get to the B cap or other side and 3)if you sail behind the bigger islands to cross sides you are also taking your guns out of the fight for a long time(you might not get to other side before that flank won or lost) and will still lose the flank you just left.

Stick with your team at spawn and win the cap/flank in front of you.

...

I agree especially with #3. Also in straits with 3 caps it does take time to get to the middle and then time on the cap to win it. Guns out of the fight all that time and you have left your mates shorthanded and that IMO is risky... moreover I have seen plenty of ships head alone for middle cap and get dead and accomplish nothing.  It can and does work sometimes. It just seems to me to kinda be a dice roll.  Stay with your mates and KILL reds and the caps will follow if ya got a decent team. It is a tricky map. 

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2 hours ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

 

This Tactic works, Being left to take up slack is not easy but Caps win the game.

When there are 3 caps in Strait, then it is a good idea for someone, usually a DD, to cap B as fast as possible.

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Out of probably 1000 + games on straight staying where you spawn is always the best bet. The foolish that go mid will usually be the one DD needed to spot for whatever side he ran from. It is a player thing as there isn't anything bad with the map ppl just dont want to play what is generally the most sound strat because it worked once for them. B can always be covered from the falnk in a crossfire but that is common sense and we can't have any of that now can we.

 

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13 minutes ago, aethervox said:

When there are 3 caps in Strait, then it is a good idea for someone, usually a DD, to cap B as fast as possible.

Honestly, I'm not so sure that I agree.  I'd rather try to win the fights for A and C, and leave B to be dealt with later on.  After all, you can say to cap B  ASAP, but the other team may do the same thing and you can lose your DD in a 1v1 duel.  Or worse, they show up with more than 1 DD and your DD is outnumbered and hosed.  Better to try to win the outside cap points, and let them take B, since the thing about caps is that you can always take them back.

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1 hour ago, Th3Diabolik1 said:

Many of us detest that map, but it is what it is, I suppose.

The thing is that the devs can change the caps and spawns if they want to, and that will change how the map is played.  Just remember how Strait is played differently in Ranked Battles vs Random Battles, and you'll see how changes in cap and spawn positions can have a significant effect on how a map is played.

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Strait is a shizer map for the same reason Mountain Range is: the islands don't offer cover from enemies, but instead block line of sight from allies who can't cover you.

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2 hours ago, aethervox said:

When there are 3 caps in Strait, then it is a good idea for someone, usually a DD, to cap B as fast as possible.

It's already been explained in this thread why this is usually a bad idea. When you send ships to B, you weaken A/C and are likely to lose them. If you stick with the team and make sure to win A/C then the remaining reds are completely flanked at B and are easy pickings in the crossfire.

..

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger
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2 hours ago, Crucis said:

Honestly, I'm not so sure that I agree.  I'd rather try to win the fights for A and C, and leave B to be dealt with later on.  After all, you can say to cap B  ASAP, but the other team may do the same thing and you can lose your DD in a 1v1 duel.  Or worse, they show up with more than 1 DD and your DD is outnumbered and hosed.  Better to try to win the outside cap points, and let them take B, since the thing about caps is that you can always take them back.

 

16 minutes ago, Dr_Powderfinger said:

It's already been explained in this thread why this is usually a bad idea. When you send ships to B, you weaken A/C and are likely to lose them. If you stick with the team and make sure to win A/C then the remaining reds are completely flanked at B and are easy pickings in the crossfire.

..

Oh yes, just give up one cap so the other team can win on points. Sure, just lay back & let the other team do the capping. Loser tactic.

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24 minutes ago, aethervox said:

 

Oh yes, just give up one cap so the other team can win on points. Sure, just lay back & let the other team do the capping. Loser tactic.

You're sooooo wrong, aether.

Come on, aether.  I don't like doing this, but given that you're making an assertion about what's a loser tactic or not.  You're hardly in a position to be talking about what is a winning or losing tactic when you're rocking an overall average damage of only 22k, and a WR of only 47%. 

Sorry, dude.  You want to talk about maps and such, I don't care what your stats are.  But when you start to talk about what is or is not quality play, you'd better be at least average, preferably better.  Personally, I try to limit talking about what is or isn't quality play myself, because I'm only average or a smidge above average.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Dr_Powderfinger said:

It's already been explained in this thread why this is usually a bad idea. When you send ships to B, you weaken A/C and are likely to lose them. If you stick with the team and make sure to win A/C then the remaining reds are completely flanked at B and are easy pickings in the crossfire.

..

Exactly, it's why teams usually don't try to cover all 3 or 4 caps on most maps.  It's why people ask which caps to go to at the start of battles.  You don't want to spread yourself too thin.  

And besides, on Strait, if you're successful at taking A and C, you can always grab B.  For that matter, if you take A or C, you can then turn and head into B.  It's not that far away, after all.

 

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1 hour ago, Crucis said:

You're sooooo wrong, aether.

*** I don't think so.

Come on, aether.  I don't like doing this, but given that you're making an assertion about what's a loser tactic or not.  You're hardly in a position to be talking about what is a winning or losing tactic when you're rocking an overall average damage of only 22k, and a WR of only 47%. 

*** Stat shaming Sea Scum/Sea Slime putdown.

Sorry, dude.  You want to talk about maps and such, I don't care what your stats are.  But when you start to talk about what is or is not quality play, you'd better be at least average, preferably better.  Personally, I try to limit talking about what is or isn't quality play myself, because I'm only average or a smidge above average.

*** Quality play is in the eye of the beholder. Leaving caps uncontested is most often loser play & I stand by that contention no matter my personal stats.

 

 

Three caps, sometimes,  on Straits. Two caps are the majority of the cap points. Simple math, Crucis & Powderfinger (& like ilk). Now go back to your 'Sea Locker'.

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