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guns_at_last_light

Setting sail in a CV was an eye-opening experience

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There have been so many forum posts on how awful it is to be a CV player that I finally decided to take out my Ryujo to get a first-hand experience of how bad things are. In summary: holy crap, CV play is both weird and bad.

  • Your team hates you and you will lose karma points (for what that's worth). I had a DD player complain about the number of planes attacking him, but I only had one fighter squad to cover the entire map. Odds are he didn't know that, but that didn't stop him from reporting me (he had the lowest points on our team).
  • The manual strafing mechanic is weird in that your squadron has to swing out and back rather than just turn in to perform the strafe. Maybe change the circle mechanic to an ellipse, like with bombing runs. Planes can turn pretty sharply IRL.
  • Once you make a bomb or torp run, your planes turn around over the ship rather than head far away. This results in even more planes being shot down. I get that the program is sending them back to your CV, but it would be better to either 1) allow you to choose a post-drop waypoint, or 2) let them fly in the same direction for a couple of kilometers.
  • Both of my torp squads were "rattled" when approaching the enemy CV. It's a CV, not a US battleship. They shouldn't be so rattled as to make the torp spread so wide. These are "trained pilots", not greenhorns. Do away with pilots being rattled, or make it like a 10% penalty. Imagine shell accuracy getting worse just because your ship is being fired at, and you've got what CVs have to deal with.
  • Cruiser and BB AA is pretty bonkers. I wouldn't mind losing planes going after a BB as much if the "rattled" penalty wasn't so high. Shouldn't ship AA gunners also be super rattled since they are being attacked? Wouldn't they be incredibly rattled standing, unprotected on deck using the AA when a ship is hitting them with shell fire? What about letting my fighter strafe the deck to get rid of their AA?
  • At least I knew enough to stay away from Clevelands.

Taking the CV out really made me appreciate the importance of having a good team. If you have a bad team - as in a team that spreads out (way harder to support) and doesn't take care of those pesky DDs - it is really hard to be successful. In fact, it probably makes your play much worse because you have to start worrying about the CV itself much more. With such slow load outs and the time it takes your planes to the target and back to the ship, it's much more difficult to carry a team.

Trying out a CV (and this will be a limited trial because it was awful) also made me realize how much of a mistake it was to remove manual control at lower tiers, as practicing manual control in Co-Op is nowhere near what it's like in Random battles. If you're worried about seal clubbers, don't allow captains with more than 8 points in low tiers.

In summary, be kind to your CV players. It's tough enough as it is without you yelling at them in chat and reporting them for poor play. To those CV players at high tiers, a tip of the cap to you for sticking with it for so long.

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6 minutes ago, guns_at_last_light said:

Both of my torp squads were "rattled" when approaching the enemy CV. It's a CV, not a US battleship. They shouldn't be so rattled as to make the torp spread so wide. These are "trained pilots", not greenhorns. Do away with pilots being rattled, or make it like a 10% penalty. Imagine shell accuracy getting worse just because your ship is being fired at, and you've got what CVs have to deal with.

This is to prevent CV sniping in early game, and imho should be added to all CVs with exception of saipan.

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3 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

with exception of saipan.

I am assuming because of the low number of planes per squadron?

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15 minutes ago, Silver_kun said:

I am assuming because of the low number of planes per squadron?

Because I am one of those who believe Saipan is not balanced, and I believe this should help with this.

Also if your unable to deal with enemy CV planes in a saipan, you dun goofed.

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25 minutes ago, Akeno017 said:

This is to prevent CV sniping in early game, and imho should be added to all CVs with exception of saipan.

lol

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Me being a beginning CV player, I have really learned to appreciate what allied carriers are doing when I'm in another class. Playing CVs took the "black magic" of them and made it so I payed more attention to the skies and didn't care about the allied carrier's little mistakes. Also, playing a CV allows you to see just how much support they need on the open sea. They aren't a battleship that can hold it's own. If you corner one, it will eventually either get super lucky, or (most of the time) sink.

I really want those who shame their CVs to just get a small taste of how hard being a carrier can be.

(Or y'know get sunk immediatly by the enemy carrier.)

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14 minutes ago, AtlanticRim said:

(Or y'know get sunk immediatly by the enemy carrier.)

Ive given out at least 2 AFK penalties by sinking ships so early on in the game, including detonating an Izumo.

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20 minutes ago, AtlanticRim said:

 

I really want those who shame their CVs to just get a small taste of how hard being a carrier can be.

(Or y'know get sunk immediatly by the enemy carrier.)

It's actually a very easy thing to do, you just don't intervene when the enemy carrier goes for them :cap_haloween:

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3 hours ago, guns_at_last_light said:

Both of my torp squads were "rattled" when approaching the enemy CV. It's a CV, not a US battleship. They shouldn't be so rattled as to make the torp spread so wide. These are "trained pilots", not greenhorns. Do away with pilots being rattled, or make it like a 10% penalty. Imagine shell accuracy getting worse just because your ship is being fired at, and you've got what CVs have to deal with.

Squadrons only get a "panic spread" when they are currently under attack by an enemy fighter squadron, or if you are under AA attack from someone who has activated the defensive AA consumable. The AA consumable also multiplies their AA by x3 or x4 (depending on the ship), explaining how you lost your planes so quickly.

 

3 hours ago, guns_at_last_light said:

The manual strafing mechanic is weird in that your squadron has to swing out and back rather than just turn in to perform the strafe. Maybe change the circle mechanic to an ellipse, like with bombing runs. Planes can turn pretty sharply IRL.

Real life comparisons aren't very useful in balancing a game. Even if they were, swinging around an entire squadron while maintaining formation does actually take a bit of work. In any case, the fact that strafes cannot be performed instantaneously in any direction is the main thing around which all strafing tactics are based.

3 hours ago, guns_at_last_light said:

Your team hates you and you will lose karma points (for what that's worth). I had a DD player complain about the number of planes attacking him, but I only had one fighter squad to cover the entire map. Odds are he didn't know that, but that didn't stop him from reporting me (he had the lowest points on our team).

And you get hated on even more on these forums :C

3 hours ago, guns_at_last_light said:

Taking the CV out really made me appreciate the importance of having a good team. If you have a bad team - as in a team that spreads out (way harder to support) and doesn't take care of those pesky DDs - it is really hard to be successful.

The most terrifying formation for the enemy team to assume has always been the "doom blob", where they all just sail around in a tiny circle. It's a terrible formation for ship to ship combat, so one tends to win the battle if the enemy team does this, but boy does it make your strikes ineffective.

3 hours ago, guns_at_last_light said:

With such slow load outs and the time it takes your planes to the target and back to the ship, it's much more difficult to carry a team.

Not necessarily, especially in the low tiers. I've had several games in the Ryujo where we ended up outnumbered 3v6, but because the enemy was spread out and mostly in BBs, I was capable of smashing each and every one of them with fire/floods. In retrospect, those games were pretty broken. At higher tiers though; once you get the "untouchables" (ships with AA so strong you'll never get a single plane through), it can become very difficult to carry the late game.

3 hours ago, guns_at_last_light said:

In summary, be kind to your CV players. It's tough enough as it is without you yelling at them in chat and reporting them for poor play. To those CV players at high tiers, a tip of the cap to you for sticking with it for so long.

Yay! :Smile_smile:

Edited by senseNOTmade
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@senseNOTmade Now that I think about it, there was a single fighter squad attacking a single one of my torp squads when I was making a run on that CV. Both squads were impacted though, even when I moved them apart. I don't know why both were impacted, as the enemy fighter was not strafing.

They should remove the panic mechanic (©). It's just too one-sided, in that it only affects CV planes and doesn't affect any other ship type. If they can't code "panic" into all ships (AA, secondaries, or main battery) then getting rid of it entirely is the fairest option. 

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I'm just at T7 US and a couple games away for IJN on CVs.  They are difficult to play, and destroy my stats LOL!  I'm going up both lines at the same time to get more practice before progressing up a tier in either nation.

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1 hour ago, Akeno017 said:

Because I am one of those who believe Saipan is not balanced, and I believe this should help with this.

Also if your unable to deal with enemy CV planes in a saipan, you dun goofed.

Realx. I meant it in the same way you did. It wasn't a "snarky" reply, I was in agreement, was just showing so by presuming the reason.

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9 hours ago, Silver_kun said:

Realx. I meant it in the same way you did. It wasn't a "snarky" reply, I was in agreement, was just showing so by presuming the reason.

I wasn't being aggressive though..

I mean come on, who uses "ya dun goofed" in any serious manner.

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OP needs to understand mechanics before going on rants.  The only BB that can rattle your pilots is Hood, and then only from very short range.  Defensive Fire is what causes the pilots to be rattled, and with the exception of Hood that is a CA/CL/DD consumable.  Strong AA by itself does not rattle the pilots.

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19 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

OP needs to understand mechanics before going on rants.  The only BB that can rattle your pilots is Hood, and then only from very short range.  Defensive Fire is what causes the pilots to be rattled, and with the exception of Hood that is a CA/CL/DD consumable.  Strong AA by itself does not rattle the pilots.

The Original Poster (OP) wasn't ranting at all, he was simply explaining his new found respect for the class and those who play it.

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6 hours ago, Akeno017 said:

I wasn't being aggressive though..

I mean come on, who uses "ya dun goofed" in any serious manner.

:Smile_teethhappy:, Well my bad for talking it the wrong way :p.

My apologies.

Edited by Silver_kun
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so... yes, your team will hate you in a cv.  you can't provide the blanket AA cover they want, and if you do, then your strike game will suffer (unless you're a god at micromanaging... like starcraft esl finalist good).  its ten times worse if you're in a usn cv with their all-or-nothing loadouts.  nothing that can be done about this unless wargaming makes cv loadouts more versatile (ijn cv's tend to be pretty good, above t6 at least, in this category already though)

 

manual strafing, like manual bombing, requires you predict your targets movements and lineup early, else you will get that circling around maneuver (which often leads to your fighters getting locked before they can strafe).  its still far better than it was once, where your fighters, and bombers, could glitch out and get stuck in an endless loop over enemy AA if you lined up your attack too late.  manual strafing is just a pain in the [edited], and should only be present in the game as a way for your fighters to suppress enemy AA and do light damage to lightly armored targets like dd's.

 

you can solve the issue of your bombers running back through enemy AA after making an attack run simply by manually moving them in the opposite direction once they've dropped their loads.  but yes, you're right, that's a degree of micromanagement that isn't necessary.

 

your bombers only get rattled when they have a fighter locked to them, or a scout fighter, or are in a defensive fire bubble.  cv's don't carry scout fighters, and they don't get defensive fire until t8.  that means your bombers were rattled only because they either had an enemy fighter on them or there was a red cruiser nearby who had activated his defensive AA (remember, defensive AA affects every plane within its mothership's AA range, even if those planes aren't attacking the ship that has defensive AA itself).  that said, yes, rattling is a badly implemented mechanic (just like most cv mechanics).  imo, bombers should only be rattled when enemy fighters/scout fighters are locked to it, not by defensive AA, simply because AA is already powerful enough to stop/effectively mitigate anything but a full on attack by the cv's entire strike loadout.

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17 hours ago, HyenaHiena said:

CV life:

be bad: everyone hates you

be good: everyone hates you

so much truth in this.

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18 hours ago, HyenaHiena said:

CV life:

be bad: everone hates you

be good: everone hates you

That is an accurate assessment .

:cap_old:

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20 hours ago, guns_at_last_light said:

@senseNOTmade Now that I think about it, there was a single fighter squad attacking a single one of my torp squads when I was making a run on that CV. Both squads were impacted though, even when I moved them apart. I don't know why both were impacted, as the enemy fighter was not strafing.

They should remove the panic mechanic (©). It's just too one-sided...

 

A catapult fighter can also panic bombers.

 

It's fine for cruisers with DF AA, it's basically their only trump card as a ship type.

 

As far as being panicked by planes, well, when you send in an unescorted strike, bad things happen. I get that you only have so many fighters, but it's up to you how you choose to use them.

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The Saipan is so OP it does worse than the Kaga across all servers. 

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Haven't been reported lately for being a CV, then again I am at least above average in CV even if I think it's my worst class.

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