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HEXEN_ACI

Hi! I'm grinding the Cleveland! *Progress Advice*

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Hello ladies and gents, just thought I'd introduce myself because if you see me in your game, you're almost guaranteed to lose. YES! You see, I've only been playing a few weeks and decided to climb the American Cruiser line first. Historically, it's the most interesting ship class for me personally. Now you might think I'm just a n00b. After all, I've been playing less than a month, so I won't deny that as a remote possibility. However, in my opinion, my current losses are NOT because of my lack of game smarts, it's the actual vessel I'm playing with, which is a first in this game for me.

 

The Cleveland sucks butt. It is the WORST ship I've played with so far and has the W/L ratio to prove it. It's the first ship to piss me off enough to actually want to whine and moan about it here on the forums. The only thing it has going for it that is a universal positive is the AA. Too bad the game never gives me games with carriers. It's always a slug match between battleships and cruisers, of which the Cleveland is one of the worst. I get carriers in all my OTHER games, like when I'm working on the French line. ALWAYS a carrier in those matches. I switch back to the Cleveland after its inevitable loss... no carrier in the next game. I don't know if it has something to do with my rank, progression or vessel, but it's annoying and frustrating. The Cleveland also presents like a battleship, makes a huge target, has stupid firing arcs that work well only in niche gameplay like island hugging, terrible range, terrible detection, terrible traverse speed when upgraded, horrible spread on the shells and pretty weak maneuverability.

 

You have to baby this turd to get anything accomplished and I won't do that with a ship that's supposed to make you feel more powerful than the last. I didn't have to baby the Omaha. This is why you'll most likely lose when playing a match with me. I've personally found it more effective to rush right in, get my 20-30 hits and 2-3 fires, and get sunk. I then go play with other vessels that are worth a damn until the Cleveland finishes up, then I rinse and repeat. #META Captain is right below 10 point, with the last going to Inertia Fuse.  Adrenaline Rush, Demo Expert, Preventive Maintenance. The ship is fully upgraded.

 

So there's my introduction! Feel free to use this super secret progression advice for yourselves, as I'm sure there's a crappy ship stuck in every line around the mid tier in order to get people to spend money to skip the progression. 

 

Still an awesome game to play despite my misgivings and garbage Cleveland. Looking forward to progressing down other lines and tiers, with fingers crossed I don't encounter another giant pile of turds that has nothing going for it besides a gamut of gameplay the game continually denies you.

 

Happy Hunting! 

Edited by HEXEN_ACI
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If you do very badly with the Cleveland, then you will really shine with the Pensacola.

After all, it's the size of the guns that matter most, right?

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First time I've ever heard someone consider Cleveland the worst cruiser.  Trust me when I say your first impressions are only skin-deep; she's still one of the best cruisers in the game relative to her tier.

 

I'd recommend checking out this video by UrPeaceKeeper about the Cleveland and her strengths.  I'm sure once you find the magic in her(it's a fire element!) you'll enjoying playing the ship a lot more.

 

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Welcome to the Forum.

 

I have to disagree with you. Cleveland is powerful and one of the best light cruisers at her tier. Powerful guns, good RoF, good citadel protection, awesome AA. Main beef is the ballistic arc. If you can get used to orbital re-entry ballistics, it does very well, and is a PITA to the opponents.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Seraphil said:

First time I've ever heard someone consider Cleveland the worst cruiser.  Trust me when I say your first impressions are only skin-deep; she's still one of the best cruisers in the game relative to her tier.

 

I'd recommend checking out this video by UrPeaceKeeper about the Cleveland and her strengths.  I'm sure once you find the magic in her(it's a fire element!) you'll enjoying playing the ship a lot more.

 

 

Waiting on another loss. I've watched Notsers and Flamu's videos and cannot replicate their results using their tactics. I'll give that one a watch.

 

And this is what pisses me off more than anything. EVERYONE says she's a great boat and that it's one of the best in the tier. I don't see it, and I've tried playing with it several different ways. My tactic works well for the XP grind, especially considering the fact you can play with other ships while the Cleveland is losing. The only time I'll prolong the match is on the rare occasion I get carriers in my game, which is like 1/10. Just now I jumped back into the Cleveland after writing the OP, no carrier. Got my 20 hits and sunk. While the Big C was losing I played with the Duguay. Carrier in that game.

 

The ship is just plain irritating to play at this point. It's a waste of my time. I honestly cannot wait to get to what everyone says is a massive pile, the Pensacola. I guarantee it won't be any worse for me personally and I'll probably find a way to use it better than the Cleveland.

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It may not be your style of play and it may not work for you. It is still a good ship.

 

Now for the follow up. You stated you are starting with the USN Cruiser line, therefore I assume you have not had exposure to Furutaka at Tier 5 (the first example of a heavy cruiser). If so, you are in for a rude awakening.

 

Pensacola is the first USN heavy cruiser in game. It is, and plays, very differently. Guns are awesome, but it is squishier , and much harder to play. It has a higher skill floor than anything before it. 

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No offense op but this is likely due to lack of experience as you appear to have 293 battles. T6 is rough with such a low battle count. Positioning is a skill that develops over many battles. Watching guides are good but nothing replaces experience. I suggest dropping back to t4 and running up multiple lines. You could also use the Cleveland I'm coop and operations until you are more proficient.

Edited by RipNuN2

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I have 900 battles in mine, with a 15 pt captain. My average damage is a paltry 27K. You are right when you say -

The Cleveland also presents like a battleship, makes a huge target, has stupid firing arcs that work well only in niche gameplay like island hugging, terrible range, terrible detection, terrible traverse speed when upgraded, horrible spread on the shells and pretty weak maneuverability. 

It is the 15 pt captain that finally got me to the point where I can stand playing it without loathing the match maker. Do go bow on for someone aiming at you, as the ship is very narrow. It does shoot road flares (like you are throwing them by hand to get some range). With the Inertia Fuse for HE shells (why is this a captain skill ?) and Demo Expert it will burn down a BB, but you have to get something between you and that wayward BB first. There is nothing noble about fighting with it though, as you are usually burning one down while it fights another BB or close in DD. I used to go for DDs with mine, but decided that was a dangerous game, so either shoot AP at cruisers or HE at BBs. With AP, it will take a hunk of HP out of a T5 cruiser, within 8 km range or so.

Again, I am a below average player in it, about the same as you with your 50 games so far.

Please note that the line is going to split, and Cleveland is going into a T8 capable arrangement.

 

 

 

Edited by Ericson38
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Cleveland is objectively the most successful T6 tech tree cruiser over the past two weeks, beating out all the other tech tree T6 cruisers both in WR and in DPG.

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I want to add that, even though she's widely viewed as one of the best cruisers, you should still be reasonable in how you play her.  Even the most overpowered ship will die in moments if focused down by half the enemy team.

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9 minutes ago, Lert said:

Cleveland is objectively the most successful T6 tech tree cruiser over the past two weeks, beating out all the other tech tree T6 cruisers both in WR and in DPG.

 The Budy would like a word with you, its beating the Cleve by 3.1k in DPG. But your underlying point is valid.

 

 OP, the ship is fine. You may be stuck in a loop of teams that can't carry your current skill level but it doesn't change the fact that its a good ship. I sucked in it, no doubt, but it wasnt the ship, it was me. Once you start getting the game mechanics you'll do better.

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Just now, Ares1967 said:

 The Budy would like a word with you, its beating the Cleve by 3.1k in DPG. But your underlying point is valid.

So it does, mea culpa. Still, second-best DPG out of all T6 tech tree cruisers is nothing to scoff at either.

o7

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Sometimes a ship just doesn't "click", you can switch to a different line or bite the bullet and grind through.  Honestly sounds like you are being too aggressive with her.  If that is the case, Penny is going to be a NIGHTMARE for you.  You'll probably wish you were back in Cleveland.  I'd say do a bunch of Operations/Scenarios if Cleveland is just not "clicking".:Smile_Default:

 

FYI, I love Penny.  She's a great ship for me.:Smile_great:

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5 hours ago, HEXEN_ACI said:

Hello ladies and gents, just thought I'd introduce myself because if you see me in your game, you're almost guaranteed to lose. YES! You see, I've only been playing a few weeks and decided to climb the American Cruiser line first. Historically, it's the most interesting ship class for me personally. Now you might think I'm just a n00b. After all, I've been playing less than a month, so I won't deny that as a remote possibility. However, in my opinion, my current losses are NOT because of my lack of game smarts, it's the actual vessel I'm playing with, which is a first in this game for me.

 

The Cleveland sucks butt. It is the WORST ship I've played with so far and has the W/L ratio to prove it. It's the first ship to piss me off enough to actually want to whine and moan about it here on the forums. The only thing it has going for it that is a universal positive is the AA. Too bad the game never gives me games with carriers. It's always a slug match between battleships and cruisers, of which the Cleveland is one of the worst. I get carriers in all my OTHER games, like when I'm working on the French line. ALWAYS a carrier in those matches. I switch back to the Cleveland after its inevitable loss... no carrier in the next game. I don't know if it has something to do with my rank, progression or vessel, but it's annoying and frustrating. The Cleveland also presents like a battleship, makes a huge target, has stupid firing arcs that work well only in niche gameplay like island hugging, terrible range, terrible detection, terrible traverse speed when upgraded, horrible spread on the shells and pretty weak maneuverability.

 

You have to baby this turd to get anything accomplished and I won't do that with a ship that's supposed to make you feel more powerful than the last. I didn't have to baby the Omaha. This is why you'll most likely lose when playing a match with me. I've personally found it more effective to rush right in, get my 20-30 hits and 2-3 fires, and get sunk. I then go play with other vessels that are worth a damn until the Cleveland finishes up, then I rinse and repeat. #META Captain is right below 10 point, with the last going to Inertia Fuse.  Adrenaline Rush, Demo Expert, Preventive Maintenance. The ship is fully upgraded.

 

So there's my introduction! Feel free to use this super secret progression advice for yourselves, as I'm sure there's a crappy ship stuck in every line around the mid tier in order to get people to spend money to skip the progression. 

 

Still an awesome game to play despite my misgivings and garbage Cleveland. Looking forward to progressing down other lines and tiers, with fingers crossed I don't encounter another giant pile of turds that has nothing going for it besides a gamut of gameplay the game continually denies you.

 

Happy Hunting! 

The Cleveland is old school Vl and lacks play versatility.. no smoke , Torps, and loopy shell arcs,it has a certain play style that does just ok but suffers from power creep from newer Cruisers however..... it is my go to Cruiser on the escort Vl missions because of AA and it’s guns

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6 hours ago, HEXEN_ACI said:

Hello ladies and gents, just thought I'd introduce myself because if you see me in your game, you're almost guaranteed to lose. YES! You see, I've only been playing a few weeks and decided to climb the American Cruiser line first. Historically, it's the most interesting ship class for me personally. Now you might think I'm just a n00b. After all, I've been playing less than a month, so I won't deny that as a remote possibility. However, in my opinion, my current losses are NOT because of my lack of game smarts, it's the actual vessel I'm playing with, which is a first in this game for me.

 

The Cleveland sucks butt. It is the WORST ship I've played with so far and has the W/L ratio to prove it. It's the first ship to piss me off enough to actually want to whine and moan about it here on the forums. The only thing it has going for it that is a universal positive is the AA. Too bad the game never gives me games with carriers. It's always a slug match between battleships and cruisers, of which the Cleveland is one of the worst. I get carriers in all my OTHER games, like when I'm working on the French line. ALWAYS a carrier in those matches. I switch back to the Cleveland after its inevitable loss... no carrier in the next game. I don't know if it has something to do with my rank, progression or vessel, but it's annoying and frustrating. The Cleveland also presents like a battleship, makes a huge target, has stupid firing arcs that work well only in niche gameplay like island hugging, terrible range, terrible detection, terrible traverse speed when upgraded, horrible spread on the shells and pretty weak maneuverability.

 

You have to baby this turd to get anything accomplished and I won't do that with a ship that's supposed to make you feel more powerful than the last. I didn't have to baby the Omaha. This is why you'll most likely lose when playing a match with me. I've personally found it more effective to rush right in, get my 20-30 hits and 2-3 fires, and get sunk. I then go play with other vessels that are worth a damn until the Cleveland finishes up, then I rinse and repeat. #META Captain is right below 10 point, with the last going to Inertia Fuse.  Adrenaline Rush, Demo Expert, Preventive Maintenance. The ship is fully upgraded.

 

So there's my introduction! Feel free to use this super secret progression advice for yourselves, as I'm sure there's a crappy ship stuck in every line around the mid tier in order to get people to spend money to skip the progression. 

 

Still an awesome game to play despite my misgivings and garbage Cleveland. Looking forward to progressing down other lines and tiers, with fingers crossed I don't encounter another giant pile of turds that has nothing going for it besides a gamut of gameplay the game continually denies you.

 

Happy Hunting!

At 10 point's cpt. I would recommend Concealment rather than IFHE.  your DE with normal HE will see you though. Shoot high at superstructure . Dont start or do shoot out alone. Cleveland is best "adding" in with another ship shooting at same target. Use that concealment , wait for one of your BB's to start fighting an enemy bb and pile on.  also Cleve is good at wacking DD's  for sure and planes. The AA thing is a further thing why you want to tag along with BB's , you can prtect ones that have weak AA or a whole fleet of them in a CV battle, They wont come after you, so be with a target they will. The wacking DD thing is another reason to stay with BB's(especially pushing ones) as you can protect them that way too, even if CV's arent in a battle. And you can use friendly BB's as a shield, when in a fight. Play so the enmy shoots at the BB's rather than you. They can take hits , you can't

 

Tough line to start with, try something else if you get discouraged and come back to them when you know more if it seems like a having  bad problem with US CAA's

Edited by Strachwitz666

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Send me a replay and I'll give you some direct feedback and commentary :).  Link in signature.

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I recently returned to the cleveland after finishing the USN line with the desMoines, and found myself having monster games. When I'd passed through it before I had found the shell arcs frustrating, but managed a respectable 35k average damage and 57% win rate. But now? With IFHE added to the game and after having learnt the true meaning of island camping from the desMoines, I'm getting average damage values of 60k or more, with frequent 100k+ damage games and the win rates to match it.

 

Here's the thing: the USN cruiser line is really a mash up of two different cruiser lines.

On the one hand, you have the light cruisers: the Phoenix, Omaha, Pensacola and New Orleans. These are small and have amazing rudder shift times, allowing them to pepper enemy battleships with HE and broadside cruisers with AP at range, while keeping a look-out for anyone firing at them; ready to swerve sharply to the side to avoid enemy shells.

This line includes what many consider the worst cruiser in the game: The Pensacola. The Pensacola plays like a middle school art project: like it was hastily and badly glued together out of paper mache and newspapers. I half-expected to find a "100% recyclable" sticker on it. it eats citadels like nobody's business, and this reputation has only made things worse because many (especially those who have played her) know that they can lol-citadel her at any range, at any angle, regardless of the caliber of their guns. That said, I actually think you might enjoy her, because her play style is still this long range dodging, similar to the french cruisers.

 

Then there is the USN heavy cruiser line: The StLouis, Cleveland, Baltimore and desMoines. This cruiser line feels confused, but if you manage to square the circle of their gameplay you can actually perform consistently and perform well. Put simply, these cruisers are terrible at range: the StLouis barely scrapes paintwork at >8km, and trying to hit anything in the other three ships at >12km is like pissing in the ocean and hoping someone practicing homeopathy will drink it. At the same time, these ships (except the stLouis) lack all defense against battleships at close range: their bows AND sides get overmatched, they don't have torpedoes to dissuade charges, they don't have smoke, and their concealment is now challenged by the tier 10 RN BB. How to succeed, then?

The answer: island camping. Island camping is not a niche; it is your bread and butter. It is how you make your living. It is the toast on which you smear the entrails of the enemy team.

For instance: the way I usually start the game is by finding an low lying island which is near (but not in) a cap circle, and positioning myself behind it. When positioning myself, I consider how far away I need to be to comfortably allow my guns to fire over it, where the enemy BB usually sail so that I can fire at them, where the enemy DDs usually go so that I can avoid being spotted/torped by them, and in which directions I am capable of escaping in, should things go badly. It is important to adjust not only your distance from the island, but also which angle you're sitting at, as you're gonna want to be able to turn around without sailing in front of the island.

Then I wait and react to different circumstances. The best case is when there are only DDs and cruisers, allowing me to push directly into the cap and wipe out the enemy DDs while angling towards the cruisers.

The more common occurrence is for the enemy BBs to start pushing around the side of the cap, in which case I start peppering them with HE/AP.

If my team is winning the flank, I try to push forward to an island inside the cap. An important note here is that it isn't that important to remain unspotted, even if you're stationary. Planes and far off DDs will often have me lit up for large parts of the game. The important thing though is to never make yourself the most obvious target for enemy BBs. Hopefully, there should always be teammates around spotting for you, who will present clearer targets and more present dangers to enemy BBs, to take the brunt of enemy fire.

If my team is losing the flank, I try to slowly back away around the island. It is often possible to get citadels on triumphant cruisers charging around the side of islands, and enemy DDs usually underestimate your firepower. The key here, again, is to avoid having the BBs focus you.

The real problem comes when the enemy pushes around both sides of the island simultaneously. If they coordinate well, you will have nowhere to back away to and will be dead in seconds. There is no way to fight this except to simply recognize it early, and have your ship positioned to turn around and run away as quickly as possible. This happens only occasionally, but when it does it's always because your team never came or quickly abandoned the flank, allowing the enemy to push both around the side and through the cap. Run back to your team in this case.

Late game play-style depends on if your team is winning or losing. If you're winning, it is very possible to play aggressively, and even dodge BB shells like a USN light cruiser, as long as you're at more than 10km, there's only one lower tier battleship, and there's other teammates around to divide his attention. If your team is losing, then you didn't camp island hard enough.

As far as shell types are concerned, on the cleveland you use AP to get citadels on broadside cruisers at less than 10km, and to fire at the superstructure (not the turrets) of battleships at less than 10km. It is quite possible to get 10k+ damage per volley. Otherwise however, IFHE is king. Use it on DDs, angled cruisers, angled BBs and all long range shots.

 

Good luck, hope this helped.

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11 hours ago, AVR_Project said:

If you do very badly with the Cleveland, then you will really shine with the Pensacola.

After all, it's the size of the guns that matter most, right?

OMG  Are you a Vampire Killer? Drive that stake deep my friend. L.M.A.O.

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15 hours ago, HEXEN_ACI said:

You have to baby this turd to get anything accomplished

Looka here.  Such is life.  I have to play this POS Myogi <ptui!> to get to a decent ship, Kongo. 

Can't advise on Cleveland because I'm not that far up.

 

But welcome!  and yes, it's okay to moan.

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19 hours ago, alexf24 said:

It may not be your style of play and it may not work for you. It is still a good ship.

 

Now for the follow up. You stated you are starting with the USN Cruiser line, therefore I assume you have not had exposure to Furutaka at Tier 5 (the first example of a heavy cruiser). If so, you are in for a rude awakening.

 

Pensacola is the first USN heavy cruiser in game. It is, and plays, very differently. Guns are awesome, but it is squishier , and much harder to play. It has a higher skill floor than anything before it. 

You sure got that right it's very squishy:etc_red_button:

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16 hours ago, senseNOTmade said:

<snip>

Here's the thing: the USN cruiser line is really a mash up of two different cruiser lines.

On the one hand, you have the light cruisers: the Phoenix, Omaha, Pensacola and New Orleans.

<snip>

 

Then there is the USN heavy cruiser line: The StLouis, Cleveland, Baltimore and desMoines.

 

Correction:

Light (CL) and Heavy (CA) Cruisers refers to the size of the guns, not the size of the ship.

Phoenix, Omaha, St. Louis, Cleveland are CL

Pensacola, New Orleans, Baltimore, Des Moines are CA.

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Thanks for all the responses and warm welcomes. I appreciate the advice on how to play as well as the tactics. However, I broke down and used free XP to meet me half way on Cleveland progression. I just couldn't do it anymore. It is definitely NOT my thing. Still haven't spent money though so, all good ;)

 

I'm already liking the CocaCola more than the Cleveland. My shells actually go where my crosshairs are positioned and don't need to sneak a peak at the moon every time I fire. It feels more nimble and I'm able to kite again using distance and the ships agility. The reloads suck but the damages are spicy, very nice.

 

iDuckman: Hahaha my brother just got finished with the Myogi. What a horrible ship.

 

senseNOTmade: Thanks for such a lengthy response. Kiting is more my bread and butter I think. Islands are for the Army. The island camping strat is what forced me into the "rush and lose" mentality. The amount of time I had to take was not worth the 2x or 3x XP I would get. Time wise, it was much more efficient to grind and die, and then go progress other ship lines while the Cleveland was losing. 

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3 hours ago, alexf24 said:

 

Correction:

Light (CL) and Heavy (CA) Cruisers refers to the size of the guns, not the size of the ship.

Phoenix, Omaha, St. Louis, Cleveland are CL

Pensacola, New Orleans, Baltimore, Des Moines are CA.

Arguably , only the Baltimore , Des Mooines were HEAVY Curisers, as they were the first US cruisers to not be restricted by the Washington Treaty weight of 10000 tons. Yes the whole 6" and 8" thing really had no meaning at all other than nothing gun size difference so effectively all Cruiser before  Balitmore,- The Witcheta's , Cleveland/Brooklyn, NO?North Hampton , Portland, Omaha, Pensi , etc were all Light cruisers , since the WNT limited cruisers to 10K and stunted CA growth for about 20 years.

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