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landedkiller

what new tactics will be required for deep water torps?

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I have been thinking about this lately what will Battleship captains have to do if the Pan-Asian line becomes super popular and it leads to more sinking. I guess one could research vigilance in the skill tree no idea if that will be enough to react to deep water torps fast enough. Sower battleships will no doubt get hit by these while the French battleships will supposedly be able to outrun them using speed boost at least that's what I see on reddit. There has to be a balance yes I know, but I am a afraid a bit of these deep water trops indirectly nerfing slower battleships in the game. If anyone has been thinking of tactics to work around deep water torps let's discuss them here. I do enjoy new lines to the game it's new mechanics that are powerful that require new thinking. This is posted here due to BB's being affected the most with deep water torps.

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With DW torps, the BBs will camp harder & snipe HE till the PA DDs are removed.

The BBabies will whine and cry for everyone else to protect them - even CVs, lol.

 DW torps are going to be a massive fail.

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I have always been more of a cruiser guy myself, but I still have some battleships I play on occasion mainly Tirpitz and Arizona.

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Why would DWT require any change in tactics compared to what BBs should be doing now?

They're still torps, just with far less detection range.

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2 minutes ago, landedkiller said:

I have always been more of a cruiser guy myself, but I still have some battleships I play on occasion mainly Tirpitz and Arizona.

I have about 45% Cruisers & only about 17% BBs - I play Yamato, Bismarck, N Carolina & KGV, ARP Kirishima, Ark B & K. Albert.

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2 minutes ago, aethervox said:

I have about 45% Cruisers & only about 17% BBs - I play Yamato, Bismarck, N Carolina & KGV, ARP Kirishima, Ark B & K. Albert.

I have fallen behind the last two years on grinding up the lines now, because of tanks lol.  Well I have a few BB's Kii,Tirpitz, Scharnhorst,Arizona, Texas, Kongo, Orion, Akanasas B. I really enjoy the playstyle of Japanese cruisers I would say cruiserwise I went for USN cruisers to tier 8 first, because of the split and cbt nastalgia

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1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

Why would DWT require any change in tactics compared to what BBs should be doing now?

They're still torps, just with far less detection range.

Well considering that last I heard, Cruisers are vulnerable to Deep Water Torps, so the changes would be that they will stay out of action until the DDs are dead, so now DDs may have to step up and actually fight front line.

Then again some DDs hate to push without support So if it's now far less safe for the other classes to push, then sounds like even bigger mess than befor. While there was some camping prior to Deep Water Torps, you could still find enough BBs and CAs willing to support DDs in pushing into the bases.

Now if Wargaming made Deep Water Torps only affect BBs and not CAs then things would improve some, but regardless Deep Water Torps need to be pulled out of the game since playerbase is far from being ready to cope with such weapons, perhaps there will never be suitable time to have such Torps in the game to be honest.

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Maybe BBs will start to look 10km in front of them vs 15-20+km down range. It's everyone's job and duty to put rounds on DDs or at the very least alert to the possibility they'll be detected in a moment or 2.

Where's the ammo spent more wisely? Allied DD spotting enemy DD 8-10km away or that <insert battleship> 16-18km out & well angled..?

Knowing the actions of allies, watching as ships pop up/last know locations and having turrets trained on the area and guns ready to fire. Not enough BBs do this. (no. I'm not saying hold fire forever nor to ignore targets of opportunity. Simply playing attention to what's developing close-in and being willing to hold back for a moment until the shot opens up.)

As MrDeaf said:

1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

Why would DWT require any change in tactics compared to what BBs should be doing now?

They're still torps, just with far less detection range.

Things are unlikely to change in any case.

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31 minutes ago, Zyu said:

Maybe BBs will start to look 10km in front of them vs 15-20+km down range. It's everyone's job and duty to put rounds on DDs or at the very least alert to the possibility they'll be detected in a moment or 2.

Where's the ammo spent more wisely? Allied DD spotting enemy DD 8-10km away or that <insert battleship> 16-18km out & well angled..?

Knowing the actions of allies, watching as ships pop up/last know locations and having turrets trained on the area and guns ready to fire. Not enough BBs do this. (no. I'm not saying hold fire forever nor to ignore targets of opportunity. Simply playing attention to what's developing close-in and being willing to hold back for a moment until the shot opens up.)

As MrDeaf said:

Things are unlikely to change in any case.

Then make BB guns more accurate on 10 km or less because sometimes the accuracy on that distance is just painfull to watch.... 

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I would think many of the DWTs will be seen long before their detection range comes into play by destroyers, cruisers, spotters, fighters, CV planes and hydro.

 

Along with good map awareness, RPF and radar, competent teams will know what direction DWTs may come from. Of course if some captains wish to help themselves with vigilance and signal flags they can (but will they?).

 

And after all the above; the Torpedo belt will take a percentage off the damage and then there's the heals.

 

I'm sure if the PA destroyers flood the game when they are released, we will see a small increase, but once people learn how to counter and use the mechanics already in the game this should level out. 

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15 minutes ago, Lionel92 said:

Then make BB guns more accurate on 10 km or less because sometimes the accuracy on that distance is just painfull to watch.... 

If there's one thing I can say I'm actually pretty darned good at in this game it would be: Hitting DDs with BB's big, clunky, slow traversing and inaccurate guns. Quite sadly it's about all I'd say I truly excel at :Smile_sad:. Lots and lots of practice.

DDs are difficult to hit. They're supposed to be. Therefore 1. If more folks actually practiced it in Battleships then 2. even with poor aim: The odds of critically damaging or sinking a DD drastically rises the more rounds, collectively, put out on it. Go figure: focused fire strikes again!

It's a psychological thing too. If I'm knife fighting a DD and I am getting ZERO support from my team but my Captain's PT reads (3), (4) or (5) - I'm already nearly as close to losing that fight as if my enemy had torps about to hit me. He brought friends. I brought 3 blind mice. I'm prone to do my best to disengage and gtfo. IF I get away alive I'm left with low hp, pray I don't have to panic smoke and thereby give it to the enemy, no cap/no zone control, a miserable remainder of match with sub 500hp and a feeling that "Oh snap if I get so much as spotted for a second, that team is gonna be all over me!". That's the threat that will keep me very wary. Knowing that even the battleships are backing up their DDs and not leaving them hanging.

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The cure to Pan-Asian DDs is aggressively driven standard DDs with a gun bias, because they are absolutely immune to DWT. What is going to be a problem is when matchmaking turns out a random battle in which there is ONE destroyer which is Pan-Asian. Then it will be the light cruisers' job to hunt it down and kill it, and nobody on the opposing team will be immune.

 

I also suspect that when multiple Pan-Asian destroyers spawn into the same battle, there will be pressure on them to go forward and go absolutely nuts with torps, since they can't sink each other. The alternative is that we'll see Pan-Asians take one flank to themselves while all their team-mates stay outside the PAs' torpedo range. On the one hand, the PAs will have that flank all to themselves, flinging torpedoes every which way at will; on the other hand, their team-mates are going to want to stay well back, with consequent lack of support.

 

We may yet see PA's going forward under the cover of sniping battleships with lots of gunbarrels and extremely long range, spamming torps in every direction while their own BBs stay 15km+ back so they can't get teamkilled but can still back the destroyers up against the cruisers which come forward to kill them.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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WASD a lot and play more passive If there are PA DDs near. And WASD a little more. 

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10 hours ago, landedkiller said:

I have been thinking about this lately what will Battleship captains have to do if the Pan-Asian line becomes super popular and it leads to more sinking. I guess one could research vigilance in the skill tree no idea if that will be enough to react to deep water torps fast enough. Sower battleships will no doubt get hit by these while the French battleships will supposedly be able to outrun them using speed boost at least that's what I see on reddit. There has to be a balance yes I know, but I am a afraid a bit of these deep water trops indirectly nerfing slower battleships in the game. If anyone has been thinking of tactics to work around deep water torps let's discuss them here. I do enjoy new lines to the game it's new mechanics that are powerful that require new thinking. This is posted here due to BB's being affected the most with deep water torps.

So, the old tactics of changing speed and course wont work on them anymore?

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31 minutes ago, Volga1987 said:

So, the old tactics of changing speed and course wont work on them anymore?

You will have way less time to react to these new torps only hydro plus vigilance detects them fast enough. Vigilance on it's own only helps so much. Range mod can help out more at tier 8+ it's the lower tier BB's that will suffer the most.

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Just now, landedkiller said:

You will have way less time to react to these new torps only hydro plus vigilance detects them fast enough. Vigilance on it's own only helps so much. Range mod can help out more at tier 8+ it's the lower tier BB's that will suffer the most.

It still is the most viable tactic, if people cant even master that, then no hydro or vigilance can help them.

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Nothing really changes.

 

The ships best to deal with Destroyers remain the same:  Other Destroyers and Carriers.

 

DDs are your first line, your skirmish line.  PADDs with their DWTs are at a serious disadvantage against other traditional DDs because the best weapons DDs have against others of their kind, don't work.  DWTs do not work on DDs and that is a massive disadvantage.

 

The Carrier, if available, is the traditional bane of DDs.  Some of these PADDs are in fact USN DDs.  But unlike Regular USN DDs at higher tiers, these certain good AA PADDs do not have Defensive Fire.  They will be vulnerable to air spotting, air attacks.  Notser and Flamu mention this repeatedly.  Hull-C Benson, Fletcher, Gearing, Kidd can adopt AA and Defensive Fire to protect against air attacks, while still having the power of their regular torpedoes.  PADDs are at the mercy of CVs.

 

For Cruisers and Battleships, if you were already getting blasted by DDs, then you'll still be getting blasted by PADDs and their DWTs.  If you had no match situational awareness and how to sail properly, then you'll still get blasted by DWTs.

 

What YOU need to worry about as a BB?  Take account of where the enemy DDs are, recall their torpedo ranges, and not be in range.  Manage your angles and not sail showing a lot of sides to where opposing DDs are operating.  And of course, use your WASD keys.

kZdkxx9.gif

 

Nothing changes.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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On 11/25/2017 at 2:33 AM, Lionel92 said:

Then make BB guns more accurate on 10 km or less because sometimes the accuracy on that distance is just painfull to watch.... 

They would also need to triple or quadruple the BB shell velocity or the destroyer can just do a full 180 and be across the map in the entirely other direction before the shots land.

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2 hours ago, fourteenfour said:

Carriers aren't a defense, they are too busy using AP bombs on battleships now. why waste time with DDs when you can slag a ship quickly?

I think you mean the carriers that have AP bombs available to them; do IJN CVs have them? I don't think so...

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