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legozer

What More Can I Do?

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Many consecutive losses in Kiev. I'm dealing solid, respectable damage, sinking ships, solo capping and finishing at the top of each team.

 

Can't win. The image below is representative of my last 4 games. I more or less finish most games now with similar stats.

I feel like I should be winning way more games, but either my team collapses IMMEDIATELY, or just can't get ahead enough to finish out. Do I really NEED to div up with good players to establish a respectable win rate?

This, I feel, is a microcosm of my experience in the last 3/4 months. It's very frustrating. AND it's not to say that I'm too good to lose, or that I was carrying my team; I just feel that I'm doing what I ought to do plus 1 or 2, and it's still not bearing results.

 

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Tell you what, take a slight break for a few days and then come back, me thinks you are a bit burned out. Remember this is a game not a job~ 

Plus losing is part of a gaming experience! 

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No image is showing for me, but the NA average for the Kiev in the last week is a 49.65% win rate, 33,356 damage, 1,245 XP, 0.6 kills/game.

 

Note that's the average.Now the top half of all players are 57.66%, 49,958, 1.552, 0.83 respectively. 

 

Remember, especially for DDs, it's not just raw damage numbers, it's the correct damage. XP/credits for damage is based on percentage done to that ship. You get more doing 5k damage to a DD than 5k to a BB. There are multipliers for when you're uptiered. 

 

DD play is all about map control. if a majority of your damage is late in the game, then all you're doing is farming credits/xp. If you want to win, it's all about dictating terms and forcing the opponents to do what you want them to do. 

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div up with better players.     I can easily keep high wr when I do  a 3 man div with my clan mate.  for example, one of my mate had a bad 5 game losing streak.    div'd up and won 8 of 9.    (I was part of 6 of 7)        when you have 2 player that can carry plus another decent player,  you can easily win more.  

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24 minutes ago, legozer said:

feel like I should be winning way more games, but either my team collapses IMMEDIATELY, or just can't get ahead enough to finish out. Do I really NEED to div up with good players to establish a respectable win rate

Yes, when you division with good players your win rate will go up that is a fact.  Not only that this is a team game and knowing you have one or two other players that have your back is key, especially in terms of calling out targets and focus firing which there is still a severe lack of it out there in random battles.  Plus it is fun and also once the battle is over you can discuss amongst yourselves what you thought you all did well and where you messed up.  Join a clan man I think you will like the experience, I know I have.

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I'm in a clan with unreasonably good players. Like, stupid good. When we div up, we win every. single. game.

Still, I feel like there's something wrong with having to rely on div/clan mates to establish a solid record. If MM took into account the overall WR of the teams it assembled and matched them against similar teams, the better players would win far more often and then get slotted into a bracket where they...you know, nevermind, that's a whole tangent that I'm sure someone else will better extrapolate later.

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Hmmm....I had a screenshot pasted in, but it doesn't show when I post.

Edited by legozer

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I attached it

sskiev.png

Edited by legozer

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48 minutes ago, Incendiary_Tanker said:

Tell you what, take a slight break for a few days and then come back, me thinks you are a bit burned out. Remember this is a game not a job~ 

Plus losing is part of a gaming experience! 

 

I'm not burned out. Quite the contrary: I'm really excited that I'm starting to do well in this ship so quickly. I'm just losing a lot, and it's a bit of a bummer. Not enough to drive me away, just enough to drive me to complain!

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If you have them, post the team score and detailed report screens as well. The personal score has XP/credit multipliers in it that may not reflect what you actually did in game. 

 

All I can make of that screen is that you likely rushed in, torped and finished something for likely at least half of your damage.The rest of it looks like you shot at armored targets (30-40k on 150 hits) so a bunch of no damage hits. 3 fires seems low for that number of hits so you may be shooting at the hull instead of the superstructure (but with fire RNG YMMV) or you had bunch of AP bounces. No defense ribbons so you didn't contest any points - so likely you capped late or the point you went after they only made a token attempt at.  

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 most of high tier russian DDs tend to be more of dmg farmer than anything due to their bad conceal.  you have to rely on others to light up enemy DDs.     it doesn't have alpha dmg   to really be able to make a difference in solo play.    in may ways, this is like some of the long range cruisers as well.  its very hard to have over 60% wr  solo  with them.      by comparison, some ships are bit easier to carry a team even though they may do less dmg by either having enough alpha to eliminate ships or   take out redteam DDs.      make a difference by shooting and killing DDs,    cruisers then continuing onto BB.  

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3 hours ago, legozer said:

Many consecutive losses in Kiev. I'm dealing solid, respectable damage, sinking ships, solo capping and finishing at the top of each team.

 

Can't win. The image below is representative of my last 4 games. I more or less finish most games now with similar stats.

I feel like I should be winning way more games, but either my team collapses IMMEDIATELY, or just can't get ahead enough to finish out. Do I really NEED to div up with good players to establish a respectable win rate?

This, I feel, is a microcosm of my experience in the last 3/4 months. It's very frustrating. AND it's not to say that I'm too good to lose, or that I was carrying my team; I just feel that I'm doing what I ought to do plus 1 or 2, and it's still not bearing results.

 

 

WInrate doesn't matter games should be about fun and thinking of new tactics. Maybe the line is not suited for you I recall there being two russian dd lines if this line isn't suiting you while not try out the other line?

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21 minutes ago, landedkiller said:

WInrate doesn't matter games should be about fun and thinking of new tactics. Maybe the line is not suited for you I recall there being two russian dd lines if this line isn't suiting you while not try out the other line?

 

For most healthy-minded individuals having fun and winning are not mutually exclusive. 

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52 minutes ago, centarina said:

 most of high tier russian DDs tend to be more of dmg farmer than anything due to their bad conceal.  you have to rely on others to light up enemy DDs.     it doesn't have alpha dmg   to really be able to make a difference in solo play.    in may ways, this is like some of the long range cruisers as well.  its very hard to have over 60% wr  solo  with them.      by comparison, some ships are bit easier to carry a team even though they may do less dmg by either having enough alpha to eliminate ships or   take out redteam DDs.      make a difference by shooting and killing DDs,    cruisers then continuing onto BB.  

This started an interesting train of thought.  I realized a few weeks ago that some of my ships were better at affecting the game  outcome than others.  I also noticed that some of those ships did not necessarily turn out high damage numbers.  One example in my port is the Perth.  I find that I can hold an area or break up a push with her, but it is difficult for me to wrack up damage.  There are other ships where the the enemy is unfazed and just keeps on coming.  The idea is to disrupt the enemies' plans.  I am trying to get to the level where I can disrupt their plans and force them into doing what I want them to do.  Maybe one day...

 

I am trying to remember which ships it has happened with recently, but it is rewarding to come into an area, start firing and have a couple of enemy ships break off and relocate.  It has primarily been USN DDs that can cause this.  On the other hand, I have had players persist in pressing into my Scharnhorst.  Earlier this evening two BBs, one an Alabama, kept on coming.  I elected to proceed and ended up dying after taking the two of them out.  The Cleveland also gets underestimated, allowing me to plow through quite a bit of hitpoints before the enemy ships realize what is happening (if they ever do).

 

Another point is the ability to occupy two or three enemy ships to give your team an overmatch somewhere else on the map.  The art of inciting rage in the enemy so that they chase you.  And having a ship capable of evading their fire and kite the enemy.  The trick is finding where you can disrupt the enemies plans.  For what it is worth, the VMF DDs are not a good fit for me and I spend some time here and there trying to make them "work".  In fact, my stats took a big hit last week because I committed to running a number of VMF battles to improve my skills with them.  I just don't have the skill set yet to make my VMF DDs control the battle the way I can with a Farragut or Benson.

 

Unfortunately, like what you have experienced, the last two or three weeks have been disappointing.  I have bought several teams space and time only to see it squandered. Numerous battles in which we had a two or three ship advantage, and then to watch our BBs sail broadside to the enemy and get deleted one by one.  To have a points and cap lead with one or two minutes to go and watch a DD or cruiser go charging into the enemy and die (losing the game in points) instead of breaking contact.  A couple of battles almost the entire team clustered on the far side of the A or C cap and let the other team take the other two caps.  They stayed there throughout the battle while a few of us tried to capture areas or destroy ships.  Yesterday, I watched a DD turn away from going into a cap circle to pursue a ship (CV) with 2 or 3 minutes to go.  In that case it fortunately worked out with the CV dying at the three second mark, just pushing us over in points by a slim margin.  (I actually went back to Tanks for a few hours a couple of days ago after a 10-month hiatus just to have a break.)

 

I know stats have ups and downs, and worrying about them takes away from the fun of the game, but it is still tiresome.  Started this year at around 42% win rate and have been climbing with 55% -63% range play the last few months, then the last three or four weeks happened.  The good thing is it is making me focus on the next level of :Git Gud"...

Edited by ExploratorOne
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2 minutes ago, VGLance said:

 

For most healthy-minded individuals having fun and winning are not mutually exclusive. 

True he clearly is suffering from wanting to be the very best at his ship, maybe he is justing burning himself up over it too much

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We all have Dunning-Kruger in us. It's just a matter of to what degree. We can easily imagine our production in a match to be full of wise decisions and above average but only until we see with our own eyes far more superior play do we get proper perspective. And even then, the player base is filled with players who when shown abilities far beyond theirs, they still can't tell the difference, or worse, they still think they're better. 

 

The worse a player is, the more skilled they tend to be at rationalizing. Which makes sense. They have more frequent occurrences where they have to defend their sub par performance, which is often done by pointing to external factors. 

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@ExploratorOne

I have an issue grinding one ship, let alone one type, for any extended period of games. Therefore I SEE it all but rarely gain the acute perspective necessary to fully realize the layers of breakdown in the fleet that comes with consistently playing a particular class - in this case I favor BBs so I know all the pain there - but also know how to properly support, be a presence/threat etc.

Doing the PADD missions I have spent an awful lot of time in DDs. Gremy mostly. Being that zone denier it HUGE. Sometimes wins come with you having done not much more than spotting and threat-of-torpedo with a cap or 2 mixed in.

Watching the fleet not take advantage of those situations is beyond frustrating. Spotting DDs and torps like a champ - yet you see your allies take hits like 10min(!!!) later from those very same torps you spotted for them. Being under fire from enemy DDs and your see no shells landing around their boat except your own shells. Nobody holds fire anticipating the NEED to be ready in 10 seconds from now, train guns, our DD is entering enemy smoke to flush the bastard out... nada. Well RARELY.

I watch people fire at well angled targets 15+km away but not hold fire for the CA that I'm lighting up for them and is coming from behind the island in 3.. 2.. 1.

So many minor breakdowns and failure to capitalize leads to an increasingly difficult battle that will eventually get away from the team.

@ OP As ExploratorOne pointed out and I'll ask: Do you think you're being an actual threat or merely a nuisance farming damage. I'll have great games where my team just V A N I S H E S. Funky magic trick if you ask me. Maybe it's just that - You're doing well but nobody is rallied by your performance, team isn't pressing an advantage, they tentative or indecisive about where to go etc etc etc. Tough break in that case. WoWS Murphy's Law strikes yet again.

On the other hand - I KNOW when the enemy is inspired. They keep coming at you, wasd hax dodge, they focus fire and stay tight. That's a tough nut to crack. Sometimes you run into a string of games that the enemy fleet are all on the same page and they just steamroll you. You'll have a truly epic game and sadly it'll be a loss(and then an ultra-mediocre following match be Victory!, only to have it be your 50x/100x daily bonus xp game... typical).

I try my best, screw up plenty and my allies safety, as well as supporting them, tends to be more of a priority than my own ships well being.  I only really get ticked when what was an assured win turns into a loss due to teammates throwing it away.

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11 hours ago, landedkiller said:

True he clearly is suffering from wanting to be the very best at his ship, maybe he is justing burning himself up over it too much

 

No. Just seeking some advice to get better, or at least find ways to win more often. I'm not burned up about anything. Like I said, it's certainly not enough to drive me away from the game or the ship. It's just a bit annoying.

10 hours ago, VGLance said:

We all have Dunning-Kruger in us. It's just a matter of to what degree. We can easily imagine our production in a match to be full of wise decisions and above average but only until we see with our own eyes far more superior play do we get proper perspective. And even then, the player base is filled with players who when shown abilities far beyond theirs, they still can't tell the difference, or worse, they still think they're better. 

 

The worse a player is, the more skilled they tend to be at rationalizing. Which makes sense. They have more frequent occurrences where they have to defend their sub par performance, which is often done by pointing to external factors. 

 

Also, I haven't rationalized anything. You seem like a clever fella, so I assume you can read:

15 hours ago, legozer said:

AND it's not to say that I'm too good to lose, or that I was carrying my team; I just feel that I'm doing what I ought to do plus 1 or 2, and it's still not bearing results.

This isn't rationalizing crappy play. It's an honest perspective that I feel is accurate based on experience. I'm a self aware individual, and I know when I've made mistakes or haven't been of help to a cause. I've seen superior play, and I've gained the requisite perspective. Conversely, I know when I've done well, and have played to win.

 

As for the posted game: it's just an example of what I've been doing in the ship lately. A snapshot that I feel reflects a typical (perhaps somewhat above average) game. In this instance, I pushed a Shimekaze and Martel out of the B cap at the outset by landing a torp hit on the Martel and punching the Shimmy in the mouth with HE. I was able to secure B, using smoke after the Shimmy launched torpedoes, to land AP volleys on an Atago (or Mogami...can't remember) and the Martel. I moved to A when my smoke was exhausted and sank a healthy Yugumo (may have been another IJN DD).

I try to focus on hunting down DDs and pestering BBs with HE. I like to draw lots of fire while scurrying away and using smoke, too. I go for caps, realizing I have less-than-advantageous detection, because it often yields results like that described above. I feel like this is a team-oriented strategy, but often, the team has evaporated within the first 5-6 minutes.

So, maybe just a run of bad luck? Maybe I'm wrong about my play? It's worthwhile to try to find the causes, no? I mean, I play a very similar style in Leningrad and Gnevny, and my WR is pretty damn good in those, so what is it about Kiev that yields a different overall result?

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11 hours ago, VGLance said:

 

For most healthy-minded individuals having fun and winning are not mutually exclusive. 

 

Huh?

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Based on your stats you're winning about as much as you should be. You're below average across the board in damage, XP, kills and survival. If you can keep consistently delivering games like the one you posted your WR will improve. 

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11 hours ago, VGLance said:

We all have Dunning-Kruger in us. 

The worse a player is, the more skilled they tend to be at rationalizing. Which makes sense. They have more frequent occurrences where they have to defend their sub par performance

no, not all. some of us just go ahead and suffer from exceedingly low self esteem, which in my case is a result of direct observation, and knowing exactly how much worse I am than the elite players.

again, no. some of us acknowledge our suckage, and choose not to rationalize it, but embrace it as an extension of our damaged, inferior beings.

once we own our suckage, then we can focus on lower goals, such as improvement or one element of our stats. 

remember, the only true way to sustained happiness is lowering your standards as needed. then one never need fail.

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1 hour ago, legozer said:

 

Huh?

What do you not understand? You often hear people justifying their casual "I don't care if I win" results by claiming they're just playing to have fun. But in reality, those two are not mutually exclusive, meaning healthy-minded individuals have more fun when they win rather than repeatedly losing. That doesn't mean you can't have fun in a hotly contested match that you lost in, nor is every win a thoroughly enjoyable experience, but especially because of quests and rewards and greater xp bonuses, their are far more attachments to fun when winning over losing. 

 

Therefore when people act like winning has no connection at all to their fun factor, it's almost always a false narrative driven by an agenda, usually to deflect away from their sub par performance where all things being equal, if given the option to produce better results, they'd elect to do so even if it's beyond their ability. In other words if you could wave a magic wand that would increase your physical and mental acuity to such a point that it would increase your performance in game by 50% across the board, the majority of the player base would do it. And they would imagine that increased performance and the rewards that come from it would increase the fun factor. 

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