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Snargfargle

Never bring a knife to a... oh, nevermind.

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I also wanted to add you could take a knife to a gun fight and still have a decent chance to win. If the other person has his/her firearm sheathed within his/her holster and the person only identifies you as a threat when you are around 20 ft away, you could close the distance pretty fast before the other can steady the firearm and be able to aim.

 

It isn't that easy to run away from someone and keep a steady and true aim at the same time. Hence the 20 ft rule has been incorporated. So that you have enough time In advance.

Edited by Silver_kun

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RIA is right across the river from us.  I've often considered going to one of their auctions to see what they are like.  

It's a pretty non-descript building, until you notice the 12' high cyclone fence topped with constantina wire and the cameras on every corner.  There is some really interesting stuff in that building.

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I do enjoy the Forgotten Weapons channel.  The host does an excellent job exploring the engineering choices and design behind weapons from a range of eras.  Also if you need a laugh you should see the hair go flying when the host tries out some AT pieces on the range.

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Honestly most people with a handgun would be LUCKY to hit anything at less than 10 feet. Ya want home defense?  Buy an 18 inch 12 gauge and load it with OO buck.  Pump is fine and dependable but you need to learn how to do that so it's fast.

 

O by the way U.S. government I know you read this kinda stuff......well.....tough sh#t.

Edited by dmckay

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2 hours ago, Capt_Binkley said:

RIA is right across the river from us.  I've often considered going to one of their auctions to see what they are like.  

It's a pretty non-descript building, until you notice the 12' high cyclone fence topped with constantina wire and the cameras on every corner.  There is some really interesting stuff in that building.

I live in the 52748 zip code... we are practically neighbors.

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25 minutes ago, dmckay said:

Honestly most people with a handgun would be LUCKY to hit anything at less than 10 feet.

 

When I was in the Army, I was issued a .45. Ironically, being not yet 21, I couldn't legally purchase and own a handgun at the time. I could, however, purchase a black powder handgun as black powder guns are not considered firearms according to the BATF (a half million Civil War dead might find this also sadly ironic).

 

I went shooting off post once with a bunch of friends. They were making fun of my black powder .44. When I went to set out the targets I put them at 50 yards because I could easily hit a coffee can at that distance with my Ruger Old Army. All the other guys with their .380, .32, and .25 caliber "ghetto blasters" were whining that 50 yards was too far to shoot. I shot the cans, hitting them all, and then kept moving them closer and closer until everyone else could finally hit them, at about ten yards. This just shows the difference in the accuracy of the firearms, as we all were soldiers trained in the use of handguns. I shot one of the guys' .25s to see if I could hit anything with it. I swear that the safest place to be when someone is shooting one of those is directly in front of the muzzle.

 

Speaking of handguns, the most accurate handgun I've ever fired was a .50 caliber muzzleloader I made from a CVA kit. From a rest, I could hit a pie plate at 100 yards with it. I must have just lucked into a barrel that came from the factory with exactly the right harmonics for the charge I usually loaded. I sold that gun to help pay for college but I wish I still had it. 

 

 

 

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If you can't hit a coffee can at 25 yards with a reasonable .380 semi-auto or .38 revolver, then you pretty much didn't pay any attention at all in handgun training. 

 

The .32 and .25 on the other hand are far too lightweight (not the round, but the gun) to be accurate at anything other than inside a dozen yards. The gun jumps around in your hand too much, as there's not enough mass to absorb the recoil well. 

 

A reasonably well-trained person with a mid-weight cartridge and a mid-weight gun is going to be far more accurate than a 44 black powder.  You need the decent-sized cartridge for the sufficient ballistics, and the modest-sized gun to absorb the recoil properly. And of course the longer barrel length gives better accuracy, too. 

 

That's why women should NEVER use those stupid little "purse gun" things, under the idea that a lightweight gun is easier to control.  That's FALSE - lightweight guns are MUCH harder to control, especially for people who don't have strong wrists/forearm muscles (i.e. most women).  Women are actually far better off with a mid-sized, mid-weight gun in modest caliber - that is, something about 900g in weight and 150mm long or so shooting .380 or 9mm.  That way, the gun absorbs most of the recoil, and all you have to do is hold it up (and a 1kg weight is trivial to hold for anyone not a child). 

 

For instance, the 9mm Glock 17 weighs in about 900g loaded and a 114mm barrel.  It's compact cousin the 9mm Glock 26, weighs 750g and has a 87mm barrel.    I can hit the 10-ring consistently with the Glock 17 at 50 feet.  I'm lucky to put the majority of my rounds inside the 7 ring with the Glock 26, despite using the same round.  On the other hand, I can put shots into the 10 ring at 50 yards with my .22 match pistol, which has a 125mm barrel and weights 1100g. 

 

For handguns, the primary determination of accuracy is handgun weight/recoil force, and length of barrel. Black powder is generally inferior because it has a much less even burn rate than modern propellants. 

 

The singlemost accurate handguns are the .22 match shooters. They have an incredibly high mass:recoil ratio, making the gun extremely stable in your hand. The lightweight .22 has a pretty high velocity and a small cross-section, making for good ballistic performance.  I used to match shoot with some USMC sergeants (retired), and most of them could hit the torso of a man-sized target at 100 yards.  They couldn't reliably do that with things like the Colt 1911 or the 9mm Beretta or the .40 S&W.

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50 minutes ago, EAnybody said:

A reasonably well-trained person with a mid-weight cartridge and a mid-weight gun is going to be far more accurate than a 44 black powder. 

A Ruger Old Army is just the black powder version of the Blackhawk. With conical bullets and the correct powder charge it is just as accurate.

 

Just because a weapon is "old" technology doesn't mean it's necessarily inaccurate. I posted previously where a Revolutionary War general commented that his wall guns could consistently hit sheets of writing paper at 500 yards. In the Civil War, a trained sharpshooter with a Whitworth rifle could hit a man at 1000 yards.

 

 

Edited by Snargfargle

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23 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

 

When I was in the Army, I was issued a .45. Ironically, being not yet 21, I couldn't legally purchase and own a handgun at the time. I could, however, purchase a black powder handgun as black powder guns are not considered firearms according to the BATF (a half million Civil War dead might find this also sadly ironic).

 

I went shooting off post once with a bunch of friends. They were making fun of my black powder .44. When I went to set out the targets I put them at 50 yards because I could easily hit a coffee can at that distance with my Ruger Old Army. All the other guys with their .380, .32, and .25 caliber "ghetto blasters" were whining that 50 yards was too far to shoot. I shot the cans, hitting them all, and then kept moving them closer and closer until everyone else could finally hit them, at about ten yards. This just shows the difference in the accuracy of the firearms, as we all were soldiers trained in the use of handguns. I shot one of the guys' .25s to see if I could hit anything with it. I swear that the safest place to be when someone is shooting one of those is directly in front of the muzzle.

 

Speaking of handguns, the most accurate handgun I've ever fired was a .50 caliber muzzleloader I made from a CVA kit. From a rest, I could hit a pie plate at 100 yards with it. I must have just lucked into a barrel that came from the factory with exactly the right harmonics for the charge I usually loaded. I sold that gun to help pay for college but I wish I still had it. 

 

 

 

 

Nice shooting Tex.

I've never shot black powder before.  The two handguns in my collection that I'm most accurate with are my Ruger 1911-45 and my Sig 1911-22.  More mass the better.  But I have nothing for a handgun that I would attempt 50 yard shots with.  I have a hard enough time hitting accurately at 50 yards with long guns.

Shooting mouse guns (380, 32, 25) is just about the most uncomfortable and futile shooting you can do.  They are worthless at distances beyond 10 yards.  And most of them are such small, narrow frames, that even their anemic power is excruiating to the hands.

Edited by Capt_Binkley

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Ian does a wonderful job with his videos, and watching him go to competitive matches with old/odd rifles is amazingly entertaining.
This is the moment it made me love the guy, shooting a Ballester Molina 45 pistol just like the one I have:

 

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15 minutes ago, Capt_Binkley said:

Shooting mouse guns (380, 32, 25) is just about the most uncomfortable and futile shooting you can do.  They are worthless at distances beyond 10 yards.  And most of them are such small, narrow frames, that even their anemic power is excruciating to the hands.

My sister as a Walther PP chambered in .380 and it's pretty accurate to 25 meters. However, you are correct about most of the .380s you find out there.

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1 minute ago, Snargfargle said:

My sister as a Walther PP chambered in .380 and it's pretty accurate to 25 meters. However, you are correct about most of the .380s you find out there.

 

I wouldn't include the Walther PP as a mouse gun.  There are a few 380's like the Walthers and Brownings which are quite capable.

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4 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

My sister as a Walther PP chambered in .380 and it's pretty accurate to 25 meters. However, you are correct about most of the .380s you find out there.

At Thanksgiving I shot my cousin's 1911 Army Issue Colt that his Uncle carried from his landing on D-Day all the way to Germany. I was able to hit a medium sized pumpkin from bout 30+ yards with half the rounds in the magazine. Old fart here and my hands now tremble a tad bit holding a pistol. I was a bit disappointed cause as kid growing up on the farm I was almost a dead shot with a Remington 22, various handguns, and shotguns....I have lost a step.  Heh. Shot clay pigeons with my brothers. We would go thru a crate bout every weekend in the summer using a hand thrower. FUN!  I recommend this as training for to how to lead ships in this here game. I am also a pretty damn good at deflection shooting in that flight game from that other company. I owe it all to shooting them clay pigeons in my youth all summer. 

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On 11/24/2017 at 8:37 PM, dEsTurbed1 said:

I live in the 52748 zip code... we are practically neighbors.

Pretty much neighbors.  52803 here.

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51 minutes ago, Capt_Binkley said:

Pretty much neighbors.  52803 here.

Wow...what a small world suddenly.

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